"I never knew you: depart from me, you that work inquity."

[bbyrd009]

The Bible is clear that we are covered under the blood of Christ

at least as long as you are under the law anyway, yes, you are covered in Blood
it is a covenant, and breaking it comes with consequences

, and nothing we do will ever add to what Jesus already accomplished at the cross.

I tell you for certain that if you have faith in me, you will do the same things I am doing. You will do even greater things

but you certainly won't be seeking any credit for them, no

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess believers work to keep the law, but we don't depend on it to keep us saved.

we have (not only) made up our minds, i tell you, but also wish we were already dead and present with Christ.

but this perspective fails at every single point, and no salvation will be gained in this way

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The Bible is clear that we are covered under the blood of Christ, and nothing we do will ever add to what Jesus already accomplished at the cross.

Where do people get the idea that being obedient to Christ's word is "adding" to what Jesus did on the cross?

It certainly is not found in the Bible, Hebrews 5:9; Luke 6:46; John 3:21; John 9:31; Matthew 7:21 etc.

 

[Helen]

Jesus, not me, said one must DOETH the will of the Father to enter the kingdom. The ones that do the will of the Father are the righteous, obedient that will be saved. Those that do NOT do the will of the Father are the unrighteous, disobedient ones who will be lost.

John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."


.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."


.

Some think that means God is the one who does the work of believing for man, but it means God is the source or genesis of the work and God has given the work of believing to man to do. (see 1 Corinthians 16:10 where the phrase "work of the Lord" does not mean the Lord does the work Himself but Timothy was working the work of the Lord. The Lord was the source/genesis of the work given to Timothy to do).
This is the work of my employer that I make widgets. Again my employer is the source of the work and he has given ME that work to do. If my employer is going to do all the work then he does not need me.

27 - Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 - Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

In v27 Jesus tells the people to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. So man is given a work to do but Jesus did not specify what work here men are to do in v27.

So in v28 the people ask what shall WE DO that WE WORK the works of God. They asked what work is MAN TO DO in doing the work God has given man. Note Christ did NOT answer their question by forbidding them from doing works lest they try and merit salvation but instead gave them a work, the work of believing.

V29 Jesus is saying the work God has given is that YOU BELIEVE and not that God believes for you.

From the context we find:
--man is to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life
--that work man is to do is believe hence believing is a work.
--we see man doing the work of believing does not earn everlasting life. From v25 we see that Jesus "gives" everlasting life so it is free yet Jesus put a condition on receiving this free gift and that condition is the work of believing. Jesus extended favor to the people in the form of everlasting life. Men are to return the favor by believing on Christ and returning favor earns nothing.
--In various places in the Bible we find men have been COMMANDED to believe (as Acts 16:31). The imperative to believe implies man has both the ability to believe and accountability to believe or face consequence for not believing. God therefore is not culpable if a man does not believe.

 

[Heb 13:8]

at least as long as you are under the law anyway, yes, you are covered in Blood
it is a covenant, and breaking it comes with consequences

How do you break a covenant that's been sealed until redemption, Eph 1:13-14. You see, to the religious God's love is conditional so you have to earn it, so they place true believers back under the law when in reality we're under Grace. It's against our nature. It's like asking me to be Michael Jordan when I know nothing about basketball. God bles.

we have (not only) made up our minds, i tell you, but also wish we were already dead and present with Christ. but this perspective fails at every single point, and no salvation will be gained in this way

Salvation isn't gained bbyrd. It's a free gift that is received upon belief.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Where do people get the idea that being obedient to Christ's word is "adding" to what Jesus did on the cross?

Because you're adding hell to your doctrine.

It certainly is not found in the Bible, Hebrews 5:9; Luke 6:46; John 3:21; John 9:31; Matthew 7:21 etc.

Right, believers going to hell because of disobedience is not found in the Bible. So why are you preaching that?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Because you're adding hell to your doctrine.



Right, believers going to hell because of disobedience is not found in the Bible. So why are you preaching that?

Hell is taught by Christ, it is part of Christ's doctrine. Matthew 25:46

You have not yet showed the verse that says obeying Christ's commands adds to what Christ did on the cross.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Hell is taught by Christ, it is part of Christ's doctrine. Matthew 25:46

Well of course hell is a part of scripture, and how do you wind up there? By unbelief or disobedience? God bless

 

[Philip James]

Hello Victory,


"I never knew you"
"Knew" As in an intimate way. Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve..." in an intimate way.

Indeed.. Intimate as a Groom is intimate with His bride. The union of Christ with his Church.
The two made one flesh, one spirit, one body...
This intimate union occurs and is celebrated in the Eucharist.

You too, are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well of course hell is a part of scripture, and how do you wind up there? By unbelief or disobedience? God bless

Unbelief is disobedience.
Believing is obedience.

Jn 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Believeth is contrasted from "obeyeth not" meaning believing is obedience...no obedience on the part of man = no salvation.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hello Victory,


"I never knew you"
"Knew" As in an intimate way. Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve..." in an intimate way.

Indeed.. Intimate as a Groom is intimate with His bride. The union of Christ with his Church.
The two made one flesh, one spirit, one body...
This intimate union occurs and is celebrated in the Eucharist.

You too, are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

You had me up until “This intimate union occurs and is celebrated in the Eucharist.” There were times when Paul referred to ‘his children’ as if Paul had birthed them. And then there is reference to ‘being a father’ to those that need a father. 1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."

“Birthed”. Yes, to be consummated (the deepest intimacy two can have) and as @DPMartin points out in his thread "God made them male and female the two shall become one flesh;no longer two, but one."

"I never knew you"
"Knew" As in an intimate way. Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve..." in an intimate way.

Two flesh become one flesh in another form such as an 'offspring' or 'child' birthed by a union. It is the same with Spirit (out of a union/intimacy) comes 'offspring'. To say this conception occurs in the Eucharist is not so. It occurs in the Spirit of God. It is through intimacy with God(Spirit) that the word(seed) is given life(conception) and one is born of God. Also I can plant 'bible' verses all day long but they do not give life...the Spirit of Life(God)has to be present. So maybe it is not fair to say God doesn't use the Eucharist to point to relationship but still, again, the Spirit of Life(God) has to be present. Union is not in the Eucharist but in Spirit. ​

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you break a covenant that's been sealed until redemption, Eph 1:13-14.

that is a different covenant, the one you like to imagine you are "under" after you make a little altar profession,
not realizing what Scripture plainly says about claiming "the Blood"

so really you are just changing the subject again to avoid confronting the truth here Heb, sorry. It should be obvious that whatever covenant you are actually under, breaking it would come with consequences, right. Any chance we could stay focussed for a second?

 

[bbyrd009]

You see, to the religious God's love is conditional so you have to earn it, so they place true believers back under the law when in reality we're under Grace.

"Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things I say?

being "under" a covenant does not depend upon your declarations or professions Heb, and it is Christ who tells you to keep the Law

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation isn't gained bbyrd. It's a free gift that is received upon belief.

you're just changing the subject again Heb, imo leave salvation for a diff discussion


count the cost

10For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation isn't gained bbyrd. It's a free gift that is received upon belief.

many will cry LordLord Heb,
wadr that seems to be Christ's reply to you there

 

[Heb 13:8]

Unbelief is disobedience.
Believing is obedience.

Jn 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Believeth is contrasted from "obeyeth not" meaning believing is obedience...no obedience on the part of man = no salvation.

Ernest, Jhn 3:36 is not a sanctification scripture, it's a salvation scripture. What is the testimony John is referring to here? Do we "conform" and change into a new creature upon salvation? God bless

Jhn 3:32-33 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

apeitheó: to disobey
Original Word: ἀπειθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apeitheó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o)
Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal
Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.

 

[Heb 13:8]

the one you like to imagine you are "under" after you make a little altar profession

Altar profession? No bbyrd, I'm referring to belief in the heart. Rom 10:9

"Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things I say?

Actually, Matt 7:15-23 is referring to works salvation, the same doctrine that you abide to no?

Matt 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

you're just changing the subject again Heb, imo leave salvation for a diff discussion count the cost 10For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works

Good works that lead to rewards and crowns in heaven, not self righteousness.

 

[Philip James]

...the Spirit of Life(God)has to be present. So maybe it is not fair to say God doesn't use the Eucharist to point to relationship but still, again, the Spirit of Life(God) has to be present. Union is not in the Eucharist but in Spirit.

Beloved Victory,
It's not a question of either/or.. without the Holy Spirit, there can be no Eucharist.

Consider: Holy matrimony between a man and his wife, is the image of Christ and His church (Gal 5:25-32).
My wife and I are one... wherever she goes , I am with her, and everywhere I go she is with me. I can be hundreds of miles
away but I know she is there with me and it brings me joy.
But how much more joy when I am with her in person, where I can hold her hand, kiss her face, hold her in my arms,
And give my complete self to her.. One body, one spirit..

So it is with Christ and His bride. He is with us always! , But in the divine liturgy HE gives HIMSELF to us completely,
Body and Spirit. there is no more intimate and joyous a moment with Jesus, than when He gives Himself to us in this way.

and just as the union of I and my wife opened the door to new life. So the union of Christ and his bride opens the door to new life,
its children... all the children of God!

what am I saying? That God came and wed HIS people Israel, as HE promised HE would.
John the Baptist was the best man who introduced the Groom to HIS bride.
In baptism she had been cleansed and received her wedding garment
that she might come to HIM, Holy and without blemish...
The wedding feast began at the Last Supper and the union consummated
when the Groom, for the first time, gave HIMSELF to HIS bride in the Eucharist

what a Wondrous, Astounding, Merciful, Glorious thing, that we gentiles have been welcomed
into that union...
Alleluia!

That wedding feast has been celebrated and continues to be celebrated at every divine liturgy,
just as it is (and will be) celebrated eternally in heaven.

I could go on for pages talking about the spousal love between Christ and His church, but I think
I'll leave it there for now..

If you have questions I'll do my best to answer them but first, dear sister
I'd urge you to reflect on these things, pray about these things,
and listen to the Spirit as I know you already do.

Peace be with you!
PJ

 

[bbyrd009]

Altar profession? No bbyrd, I'm referring to belief in the heart. Rom 10:9

Romans 10:21But to Israel he says: All day long I have spread out My hands to a disobedient and defiant people

better read down to the end Heb. Hitler had that too right

Actually, Matt 7:15-23 is referring to works salvation, the same doctrine that you abide to no?

no

Good works that lead to rewards and crowns in heaven, not self righteousness.

we covered that too Heb, but then i'm not really having a convo anyway, am i.
So never mind what Christ said then. have a nice day