Separation of Church and State

[BernieEOD]

Our politics reflects our faith, our faith reflects our politics. You cannot separate the two.People who are of the faith will not support public policy that is unBiblical.They put a gun to our heads demanding we convert to their faith, we fly over with smart bombs demanding they convert to ours. Since the abortion rate, divorce rate, teen pregnancy rate, and other vices are the same within the Church as it is outside the Church, we have no real power to claim that "Our Faith" is the "Real Faith". Our salt has lost is saltiness. Until we produce the fruit that the Gospel says it should, our witness will be innefective.

 

[Christina]

Democracy and Christianity are not the same thingThe consitution that calls for freedom of worship (as you wish)Christianity is to worship the one true God of the Bible

 

[BernieEOD]

Once again, in a so called "Democracy" where the majority of the people are believers, ungodly laws would not get passed. In a nation of Christians, the people would require minimal governent. Our second President, John Adams warned that the COnsitution was written for a moral God fearing people and no other. He went on to state that one can only have order in a free society when the people are inclined towards moral self restraint, the less control there is from within, the more is required from without.We cannot consider ourselves a "Christian nation" When ungodly laws and ideas dominate the public domain.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Once again, in a so called "Democracy" where the majority of the people are believers, ungodly laws would not get passed. In a nation of Christians, the people would require minimal governent. Our second President, John Adams warned that the COnsitution was written for a moral God fearing people and no other. He went on to state that one can only have order in a free society when the people are inclined towards moral self restraint, the less control there is from within, the more is required from without.We cannot consider ourselves a "Christian nation" When ungodly laws and ideas dominate the public domain.

Jesus Christ stay away from politics, why? Because when you talk about politics of any nation, including democratic ones you are talking about the person who is the Ruler of those nations, again including the democratic nations and that Ruler is Satan.

GOD’S WORD tells us to be obedient to human governments, yet it also teaches that we must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29; Titus 3:1) Is this a contradiction? I don't think so! The principle of relative subjection helps us to understand and obey these commands. Jesus summarized this principle when he said: “Payback, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” (Matt. 22:21) How do we follow Jesus’ direction? I think we should submit to the authority of the government under which we live by obeying its laws, respecting its officials, and paying the taxes it levies. (Rom. 13:7) However, if government authorities tell us to disobey God, we respectfully should refuse to comply.

We should pay back to God what is rightfully his, in part I believe, by remaining neutral in the world’s political affairs. (Isa. 2:4) Thus, I don't think we should oppose human governments that Jehovah allows to function; nor do I believe we should promote patriotic or nationalistic activity. (Rom. 13:1, 2) I don't think we should lobby or vote in political elections, run for government office, or try to change governments. God's kingdom my friends isn't a democracy it's a Theocracy, as I said all nations of the world today are ruled by Satan, including the democratic ones. (John14:30;2 Corinthians 4:4;Matt.4:8,9;1 John 5:19; Dan.2:44)

 

[Harvest 1874]

It is indeed a sad spectacle to see so many deluded Christians in support of this present evil world, this is nowhere better evidenced then in their constant meddling in politics and in the affairs of government in their vain efforts of averting the downward direction of this nation. Had they studied the word of the Lord more properly they would have realized that such was to be expected as outlined in prophecy, and that their frugal attempt to arrest this downward trend, to up-hold the present order puts them at odds with God.

“You unfaithful people! Don't you know that love for this [present evil] world is hatred toward God? Whoever wants to be a friend of this world is an enemy of God.” (James 4:4 God’s Word Translation)

It seems rather odd that one would pray, ‘Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven (i.e. pray for the “new heavens”, under the powers and leadership of the glorified Christ head and body, and for the “new earth”, the new social order to be established under that the leadership, the kingdom of righteousness)’, and then in the same breath pray that the Lord should heal the present “heavens and earth”. This they unknowingly do when they vainly offer up prayers and admonish other Christians likewise to plead with the Lord to heal this nation in which we live, that it might once again be returned to the Christian values of which it was supposedly founded.

Do they somehow imagine that this nation is apart or separate from the present “heavens and earth”, apart from this present evil world? That it is not a part of the professed Christian nations of this world, styled Christendom, which the Lord designates, Babylon the Great?

"Our citizenship is in heaven." (Phil. 3:20) "Ye are not of this world." (John 17:14) "Set your affections on things above and not on things of the earth."

If we have changed our allegiance from this world to heaven, we are aliens and not citizens of this country, and should claim and use only such favors as are accorded to aliens. We should not vote or hold public office, nor in any way attempt to meddle in the affairs of this world.

Now it’s true we are to pray for our leaders and those in authority over us, that they do the best they can, and that they be just and honorable, but praying to sustain this nation, which is a part of this present evil world seems a bit counterproductive. As Christians our allegiance is to the Lord alone, our chief prayer is “Thy will be done”, and if it be the Lord’s will that the present order of things be brought to an end, then so be it. We cannot pray to the Almighty with the expectation that he will change His plans to conform to ours.

Now understand just because we know the truth in this regards, that the present order of things is soon to pass away with a great noise does not in any way give us license to oppose earthly governments in any outward or public manner, we may have an opinion (one which we would do well to keep to ourselves), but that is as far as it should go. The public reproof and overthrow of the present order of things will come from the Lord alone and in his due time. While our citizenship is in heaven, nevertheless, like all other foreigners, we are to be subject to the laws of the country in which we live, or as the Scriptures so express it,

“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.” Rom 13:1-2

The spirit of submission, rather than of contention, is enjoined upon the whole Church in its relationship to civil ordinances of men. "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man, for the Lord's sake." (1 Pet. 2:13)

 

[Philip James]

The spirit of submission, rather than of contention, is enjoined upon the whole Church in its relationship to civil ordinances of men. "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man, for the Lord's sake." (1 Pet. 2:13)

Indeed. This is how the Church conquered Rome. And for a thousand years Christ ruled Europe and the world...

One can almost date Satans release by when this happened:

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"


Peace!

 

[Windmill Charge]

As Palmeston said," There are Lies, damned Lies and statistics!" as with the right spin or skewing of figures anything can be proved.
To a poll what is a 'christian' answer anyone who says they are.
define the answer by weekly attendance at church and the stats on divorce change dramaticly.


Should Christians be involved in politics?

Ask your self where or why were laws passed that had a bases in CChriustian morality?

The answer is because Christians where involved in politics.

You want laws to influence behaviour, to have a Christian flavour.
Then you must be involved.

The alternative is to accept meekly anti Christian laws.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Should Christians be involved in politics?

Ask your self where or why were laws passed that had a bases in CChriustian morality?

The answer is because Christians where involved in politics.

You want laws to influence behaviour, to have a Christian flavour.
Then you must be involved.

The alternative is to accept meekly anti Christian laws.

The alternative is to accept meekly the will of the Lord.

The very reason why Great Babylon exist today is because professed followers of Christ took it upon themselves to attempt to establish (i.e. force) Christ kingdom (actually their own version of that kingdom) upon the world before its time. They were not willing to wait for the Lord’s due time to establish the kingdom, but instead aspired at once to seek for that power and authority (civil power) which was not given them, that they might enforce the dictates of Christ upon the world, thus gave rise to the great Antichrist system.

 

[Enoch111]

Should Christians be involved in politics?

That would be a part of being salt and light on earth. Since Christians must also be good citizens, and citizens are required to vote in order to determine what kind of government there should be, it follows that being involved with politics is a duty.

 

[Windmill Charge]

The alternative is to accept meekly the will of the Lord.

The very reason why Great Babylon exist today is because professed followers of Christ took it upon themselves to attempt to establish (i.e. force) Christ kingdom (actually their own version of that kingdom) upon the world before its time. They were not willing to wait for the Lord’s due time to establish the kingdom, but instead aspired at once to seek for that power and authority (civil power) which was not given them, that they might enforce the dictates of Christ upon the world, thus gave rise to the great Antichrist system.

I haven't a clue what you are talking about, other than that you are quoting revelation.

A basic history lesson.
Christians in the 1+2nd centuary took action rescuing abandon babies, nursing the sick when plague struck, opposing the games where humans fourght to the death to amuse the audience.
By these simple but basic actions they turned the world upside down.

Other Christians did the same by being involved in politics.

You don't have to seek election, but you do have to live a life that is as Christ like as you can and to love those around you as extravagently as those early Christians did.

 

[Stranger]

Jesus Christ stay away from politics, why? Because when you talk about politics of any nation, including democratic ones you are talking about the person who is the Ruler of those nations, again including the democratic nations and that Ruler is Satan.

GOD’S WORD tells us to be obedient to human governments, yet it also teaches that we must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29; Titus 3:1) Is this a contradiction? I don't think so! The principle of relative subjection helps us to understand and obey these commands. Jesus summarized this principle when he said: “Payback, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” (Matt. 22:21) How do we follow Jesus’ direction? I think we should submit to the authority of the government under which we live by obeying its laws, respecting its officials, and paying the taxes it levies. (Rom. 13:7) However, if government authorities tell us to disobey God, we respectfully should refuse to comply.

We should pay back to God what is rightfully his, in part I believe, by remaining neutral in the world’s political affairs. (Isa. 2:4) Thus, I don't think we should oppose human governments that Jehovah allows to function; nor do I believe we should promote patriotic or nationalistic activity. (Rom. 13:1, 2) I don't think we should lobby or vote in political elections, run for government office, or try to change governments. God's kingdom my friends isn't a democracy it's a Theocracy, as I said all nations of the world today are ruled by Satan, including the democratic ones. (John14:30;2 Corinthians 4:4;Matt.4:8,9;1 John 5:19; Dan.2:44)

When God established the nation of Israel, was satan ruling over it?

Stranger

 

[Harvest 1874]

That would be a part of being salt and light on earth. Since Christians must also be good citizens, and citizens are required to vote in order to determine what kind of government there should be, it follows that being involved with politics is a duty.

Is there a law in the land in which you live that states all citizens are required to vote? If there is then as a Christian you are compelled to live by the laws of the land in which you reside, if not than you are not under this obligation.

As the salt of the earth true Christians are supposed to let their light shine,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt.5:16).

This is expressed in their lives and in their conduct with their family, friends and neighbors, this is to be their example before the world.

The Lord has already passed judgment upon this present evil world thus any attempt to by you or me to fix or to uphold the present order would put us in direct opposition to the will of God. You may be willing to do this, as for myself, 'Not my will, but thy will be done' Father.

“The true footstep followers of the Lord Jesus are called to a "heavenly calling" (Heb. 3:1), to the "high calling of God" (Phil. 3:13.) They are running for the office of joint heirship with Christ Jesus in His Kingdom. The Apostle Paul was one of these runners. He realized that a man cannot well run for two offices at the same time. He said, "Do not be conformed to this world." (Rom. 12:2.) That is to say, do not become entangled with the things of this world. Again he said, "This one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:13,14); and in harmony with this Jesus said, "Ye are not of this world"; and again, "My kingdom is not of this world," meaning this present evil order of things; therefore we come to the conclusion that the chief duty of the Christian is to avoid entangling alliance with worldly systems, and to devote himself to preparing for the kingdom of our Lord when He comes.

All good citizens should desire righteous men in office, but a righteous government cannot be established by imperfect men, hence the hope of the Christian is in the Bible teaching that Christ Jesus, the great Messiah, will, in God's due time, set up His kingdom, and establish righteousness in the earth.”

 

[Willie T]

BTW, you guys are aware that (thankfully) we don't yet live in a Democracy, aren't you? The Dems are trying hard to change America to a Democracy, but they still haven't succeeded. Thank God!

 

[Marymog]

BTW, you guys are aware that (thankfully) we don't yet live in a Democracy, aren't you? The Dems are trying hard to change America to a Democracy, but they still haven't succeeded. Thank God!

Yes, thank God for our Representative Republic :)

 

[Enoch111]

The Lord has already passed judgment upon this present evil world thus any attempt to by you or me to fix or to uphold the present order would put us in direct opposition to the will of God.

It is not a matter of trying to fix the present world order. But it is a matter of standing on Christian principles and standing against the evil forces at work (Eph 6) in the governments of nations.

We should note that faithful and godly Daniel did not avoid taking responsibility for governing in Babylon, and applying his godly principles. Esther did not shirk her responsibility to stand for her people in Persia. Ezra and Nehemiah, as well as Zerubabbel did not shirk their responsibility to govern in Israel. Voting is in fact participation in government for good or ill.

We know that ultimately all the kingdoms of the world will be destroyed by Christ, who will establish the Kingdom of God on earth. In the meantime, we are not supposed to run and hide.

 

[Harvest 1874]

It is not a matter of trying to fix the present world order. But it is a matter of standing on Christian principles and standing against the evil forces at work (Eph 6) in the governments of nations.

We should note that faithful and godly Daniel did not avoid taking responsibility for governing in Babylon, and applying his godly principles. Esther did not shirk her responsibility to stand for her people in Persia. Ezra and Nehemiah, as well as Zerubabbel did not shirk their responsibility to govern in Israel. Voting is in fact participation in government for good or ill.

We know that ultimately all the kingdoms of the world will be destroyed by Christ, who will establish the Kingdom of God on earth. In the meantime, we are not supposed to run and hide.

Who's running and hiding? Those who run and hide are generally those who are afraid of persecution, of suffering for the truth and for Christ sake. It is not necessary for one to vote nor to take part in the politics of this world to suffer for Christ, just letting your light shine will prove all that is necessary.

 

[Stranger]

BTW, you guys are aware that (thankfully) we don't yet live in a Democracy, aren't you? The Dems are trying hard to change America to a Democracy, but they still haven't succeeded. Thank God!

They haven't succeeded because many Christians believe they should vote. Unlike so many who think we should ignore any in participation in elections.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

And for a thousand years Christ ruled Europe and the world...

ah, is that why we call them "The Dark Ages?"

 

[FHII]

BTW, you guys are aware that (thankfully) we don't yet live in a Democracy, aren't you? The Dems are trying hard to change America to a Democracy, but they still haven't succeeded. Thank God!

We live in a republic. Its a representative form of government which works better with large populations. Athens is given credit for democracy. That was just a city-state. It was dealing with 100 to 300 thousand people. Not 300 million. Furthermore they only recognized males who owned land who were citizens. That widdled down numbers to under 100,000... If that.

Today's democrats don't really want the Athens model of democracy. They are much more socialists in nature. They have a beef with republic rule because they got screwed over in 2000 and 2016. They had the popular vote, but not the electoral vote.

Yet, if we were an Athenian democracy or even a modern version of it... They would be screwed. Look at the red vs blue map. They could get stuff done in cities but not in 98% of the rest of the country.

 

[FHII]

Christians have the right to vote and they should. We should not be over concerned with the affairs of this world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't participate.

Any earthly govt is not of God. I support the USA govt and believe its the best we can do. I have sad that when President Obama was in office and I say if know with President Trump.

It isn't God's government which is a dictatorship.