BABYLON SCAMYLON

[brakelite]

Forgive me for any confusion I may be experiencing here, but the following two statements seem to be somewhat contradictory. Who is correct? Who is teaching true Catholic doctrine here...the Pope or @epostle1 ? Or are they in some way both correct? Please explain someone.

“All our hope do we repose in the Most Blessed Virgin, in the all-fair and immaculate one who has crushed the most cruel serpent’s poisonous head and brought salvation to the world.” (Pius IX: Apost. Const., Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854.) — [p. 18, no. 39]

“None, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.” (Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Catholics approach Jesus without the need of an intercessor in liturgy and in private prayer.

 

[bbyrd009]

It was repeated, recently, and I know why

oh, it's a Catholic thing--meaning definitely not a Christian one--and i should not have even commented i guess.
i would ask why the Catholics here don't go to Catholic forums where this would be readily accepted, but for some reason no one wants to answer that, and really it is none of my business. Fighting the devil seems like a good idea i guess, esp to those who have kings. Let them preach from the fence if they like, the truth is going to come out anyway.

The prayer violates Scripture in about ten places--or a hundred--and most any Christian could explain where, whenever one is ready

i will say after sleeping on it that Michael could be perceived as a Prince of the Host i guess, as long as we understand that angels are not saints, even if saints can manifest angels. Iow you will not ever be able to talk to Michael or hold a convo with "him," bc "he" is not a soul, "he" is a manifestation, being personified.

But tbh i think i learned all this from a Catholic lol. So go figure!

 

[GodsGrace]

To chastise and or to expose falsehood does not mean a lack of love. Love my dear as you no doubt know is not that mushy compliant emotion so often peddled in popular songs or film or novels. Love in its true sense has backbone, it is fearless and its objective is the well being of the other particularly in the face of deception.

No QT.
There is no love in what I've been reading that has been posted by @TheHolyBookEnds .

What I get from reading his posts is hatred and incorrect information.
Why are catholics singled out?
What is it about those doctrine that are so hated by Protestants?
I don't agree with some of their doctrine, but they love Jesus and are brothers in Christ.

I mean, he posts from books that are as old as my grandmother and he has so much information on the CC. I'd like to know how this is admonishing. What exactly does that church do that is so wrong?

Mary is Jesus' mother. She deserves our love and respect. They go overboard and we don't acknowledge her enough. What is worse?

They like to go to confession. It's no skin off your back or mine.

They want to believe in purgatory. So?

No. There is no love in some postings.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your lame attacks and eisegesis is that of a troll.

ya, you're prolly right, and i'm sure the connotations of the prayer are perceived differently by you. It is certainly not a Christian prayer though, and after all you must admit that you are proud of your battle-dress uniform and your king, yes?

so, by way of full disclosure, i "served" (Molech) too, at your age, and your priorities will change too i guess,
and really i am just being a raging hypocrite and prolly unforgiving too. "If you live by the sword you will die by the sword" is in the DRB too i guess right.

 

[GodsGrace]

Forgive me for any confusion I may be experiencing here, but the following two statements seem to be somewhat contradictory. Who is correct? Who is teaching true Catholic doctrine here...the Pope or @epostle1 ? Or are they in some way both correct? Please explain someone.

Epistle 1 is right.

How come only we Protestants believe in ONGOING REVELATION??
Can not Catholics believe in it too??


Christ the only Saviour

Christ reveals himself throughout his earthly life as the Saviour sent by the Father for the salvation of the world. His very name, "Jesus", expresses this mission. It actually means: "God saves".It is a name he was given as a result of heavenly instruction: both Mary and Joseph (Lk 1:31; Mt 1:21) receive the order to call him by this name. In the message to Joseph the meaning of the name is explained: "for he will save his people from their sins".2. Christ defines his saving mission as a service whose highest expression will be the sacrifice of his life for mankind: "For the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mk 10:45; Mt 20:28). These words, spoken to counter the disciples’ tendency to seek the first place in the kingdom, are primarily meant to awaken in them a new mentality, which conforms more closely to that of the Teacher.In the Book of Daniel, the figure described as "one like a son of man" is shown surrounded by the glory due to leaders who receive universal veneration: "all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him" (Dn 7:14). Jesus contrasts this figure with the Son of man who puts himself at the service of all. As a divine person, he would be fully entitled to be served. But in saying he had "come to serve", he shows a disturbing aspect of God’s behaviour: although he has the right and the power to make himself served, he puts himself "at the service" of his creatures.Jesus is the only Saviour and MediatorJesus expresses this desire to serve in an eloquent and moving way at the Last Supper when he washes his disciples’ feet: a symbolic act which will be impressed as a rule of life on their memory for ever: "You also ought to wash one another’s feet" (Jn 13:14).3. In saying that the Son of man came to give his life as a ransom for many, Jesus is referring to the prophecy of the suffering Servant who "makes himself an offering for sin" (Is 53:10). It is a personal sacrifice, very different from the animal sacrifices used ancient worship. It is a life given "as a ransom for many", that is, for the immense multitude of humanity, for "all".Jesus thus appears as the universal Saviour: all human beings, according to the divine plan, are ransomed, freed and saved by him. Paul says: "Since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they arejustified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" (Rom 3:24). Salvation is a gift that can be received by each one to the extent of his free consent and voluntary co-operation.4. As universal Saviour, Christ is the only Saviour. Peter affirms this clearly: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).At the same time, he is also proclaimed the only mediator between God and men, as the First Letter to Timothy affirms: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tm 2: 56). As the God-man, Jesus is the perfect mediator who unites men with God, obtaining for them the goods of salvation and divine life. This is a unique mediation which excludes any competing or parallel mediation, although it is compatible with participated forms of mediation (cf. Redemptoris inissio, n. 5).Consequently, any other autonomous sources or ways of salvation cannot be admitted apart from Christ. Thus in the great religions, which the Church considers with respect and esteem in the way indicated by the Second Vatican Council, Christians recognize the presence of saving elements, which nevertheless operate in dependence on the influence of Christ’s grace. Therefore these religions can contribute, by virtue of the mysterious action of the Holy Spirit who "blows where he wills" (Jn 3:8), to helping men on their way to eternal happiness, but this role is also the fruit of Christ’s redemptive activity. Thus with regard to other religions, Christ the Saviour is also mysteriously at work. In this task he unites to himself the Church, which is in a way the "sacrament of communion with God and of unity among all men" (Lumen gentium, n. 1).Christ alone can satisfy all our desires5. I would like to conclude with a wonderful passage from the Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, by St Louis de Montfort, which proclaims the Christological faith of the Church: "Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of everything.... He is the only teacher from whom we must learn; the only Lord on whom we should depend; the only Head to whom we should be united and the only model that we should imitate. He is the only Physician that can heal us; the only Shepherd that can feed us; the only Way that can lead us; the only Truth that we can believe; the only Life that can animate us. He alone is everything to us and he alone can satisfy all our desires.... Each one of the faithful who is not united to him is like a branch broken from the stem of the vine. It falls and withers and is fit only to be burnt. If we live in Jesus and Jesus lives in us, we need not fear damnation. Neither angels in heaven nor men on earth, nor devils in hell, no creature whatever can harm us, for no creature can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Through him, with him and in him we can do all things and render all honour and glory to the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit; we can become perfect and be for our neighbour a fragrance of eternal life" (n. 61).

source: http://www.vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01101998_p-18_en.html

***********************************************************

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (The CCC) which is where you should be getting your information...not from some on this forum... The numbers signify the paragraph numbers NOT the page number.


I. JESUS

430 Jesus means in Hebrew: "God saves." At the annunciation, the angel Gabriel gave him the name Jesus as his proper name, which expresses both his identity and his mission.18 Since God alone can forgive sins, it is God who, in Jesus his eternal Son made man, "will save his people from their sins".19 in Jesus, God recapitulates all of his history of salvation on behalf of men.

431 In the history of salvation God was not content to deliver Israel "out of the house of bondage"20 by bringing them out of Egypt. He also saves them from their sin. Because sin is always an offence against God, only he can forgive it.21 For this reason Israel, becoming more and more aware of the universality of sin, will no longer be able to seek salvation except by invoking the name of the Redeemer God.22

432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation,23 so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."24

433 The name of the Savior God was invoked only once in the year by the high priest in atonement for the sins of Israel, after he had sprinkled the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies with the sacrificial blood. The mercy seat was the place of God's presence.25When St. Paul speaks of Jesus whom "God put forward as an expiation by his blood", he means that in Christ's humanity "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself."26

434 Jesus' Resurrection glorifies the name of the Savior God, for from that time on it is the name of Jesus that fully manifests the supreme power of the "name which is above every name".27 The evil spirits fear his name; in his name his disciples perform miracles, for the Father grants all they ask in this name.28

435 The name of Jesus is at the heart of Christian prayer. All liturgical prayers conclude with the words "through our Lord Jesus Christ". The Hail Mary reaches its high point in the words "blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." The Eastern prayer of the heart, the Jesus Prayer, says: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." Many Christians, such as St. Joan of Arc, have died with the one word "Jesus" on their lips.

source: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a2.htm

 

[Jay Ross]

Love is kind, love is gentle and love is considerate. But the fundamentalist of poor understanding believe that they have the answers to any maiden's prayer.

 

[Helen]

No QT.
There is no love in what I've been reading that has been posted by @TheHolyBookEnds .

What I get from reading his posts is hatred and incorrect information.
Why are catholics singled out?
What is it about those doctrine that are so hated by Protestants?
I don't agree with some of their doctrine, but they love Jesus and are brothers in Christ.

I mean, he posts from books that are as old as my grandmother and he has so much information on the CC. I'd like to know how this is admonishing. What exactly does that church do that is so wrong?

Mary is Jesus' mother. She deserves our love and respect. They go overboard and we don't acknowledge her enough. What is worse?

They like to go to confession. It's no skin off your back or mine.

They want to believe in purgatory. So?

No. There is no love in some postings.

AMEN!! I agree 100% It is a vendetta.

And to save me writing two posts ....

I see no reason why as @bbyrd009 said...why the Catholics 'should' go to a Catholic Forum...this is a "Christian" Forum ( even though often it doesn't seem very "christian" )...the Catholics have as much right to be here and this domineering SDA who is swamping this Forum with hundreds of his mile-long posts .

 

[quietthinker]

No QT.
There is no love in what I've been reading that has been posted by @TheHolyBookEnds .

What I get from reading his posts is hatred and incorrect information.
Why are catholics singled out?
What is it about those doctrine that are so hated by Protestants?
I don't agree with some of their doctrine, but they love Jesus and are brothers in Christ.

I mean, he posts from books that are as old as my grandmother and he has so much information on the CC. I'd like to know how this is admonishing. What exactly does that church do that is so wrong?

Mary is Jesus' mother. She deserves our love and respect. They go overboard and we don't acknowledge her enough. What is worse?

They like to go to confession. It's no skin off your back or mine.

They want to believe in purgatory. So?

No. There is no love in some postings.

GodsGrace,
To make the charge of hatred and incorrect information could you please point out where.

All your points have been answered well and clearly in THBE posts. If you choose not to avail yourself of the information presented, you are in no justified position to criticise it.

A maintained insular self constructed bubble of belief is a false security mechanism which results in pushing Gods Spirit away.

 

[brakelite]

People here are confused. They believe the opposite to love is to hate. Not so. They see criticism of false misleading superstitious doctrine as hatred , and this may be so, but it does not mean a lack of love. The opposite to love is indifference.

 

[Philip James]

GodsGrace,
To make the charge of hatred and incorrect information could you please point out where.

All your points have been answered well and clearly in THBE posts. If you choose not to avail yourself of the information presented, you are in no justified position to criticise it.

A maintained insular self constructed bubble of belief is a false security mechanism which results in pushing Gods Spirit away.

Is there a thumbs down button ?

 

[Philip James]

People here are confused. They believe the opposite to love is to hate. Not so. They see criticism of false misleading superstitious doctrine as hatred , and this may be so, but it does not mean a lack of love. The opposite to love is indifference.

I would agree with you that indifference is the oposite of love.

Pax!

 

[brakelite]

@"ByGrace"
Growth in understanding is great, but that growth should never contradict previously established truth. Correcting past errors is all well and good, but to have two different paradigms of means to salvation operating at the same time in the same institution is not growth. It is confusion. Which is indicative of Babylon.
THBE may have had to do a little digging and investigation to come up with all the information he has given, and if it appears to contradict what you have posted I would not question THBE, but rather the motives behind having such conflicting "truths" emenating from the one source.
Do you understand the difference between the goyim and the elite?

 

[Philip James]

Growth in understanding is great, but that growth should never contradict previously established truth

Bingo!

 

[Philip James]

Bingo!

Like the established Truth that we share the One Living Bread, the One cup of the new covenant that Jesus gave to the apostles 'when the hour had come'

Pax!

 

[Helen]

@"ByGrace"
Growth in understanding is great, but that growth should never contradict previously established truth. Correcting past errors is all well and good, but to have two different paradigms of means to salvation operating at the same time in the same institution is not growth. It is confusion. Which is indicative of Babylon.
THBE may have had to do a little digging and investigation to come up with all the information he has given, and if it appears to contradict what you have posted I would not question THBE, but rather the motives behind having such conflicting "truths" emenating from the one source.
Do you understand the difference between the goyim and the elite?

Are you quoting me, I can't tell...I have no reference to this post of yours...sorry ..not sure what we are speaking about.

 

[quietthinker]

Is there a thumbs down button ?

How does a thumbs down make what I said incorrect Phillip?

I know of a story which you probably know also, its called 'The Emperors New Clothes" The Emperor got conned into believing he was wearing new clothes of gold and silver thread by some tricksters. The tricksters had so arranged their ploy saying that only those worthy could see the clothes. The Emperor was too proud to admit he could not see the clothes even to the point of parading naked publicly. This lie was accepted and believed not only by the Emperor but by all the people as well. Strutting proudly in what he thought was his new finery on the appointed day, all the people cheering at his supposedly gold and silver clothes till a child called from the crowd, 'but the Emperor is naked'
So you see, as in this story of giving a thumbs up by the cheering multitudes did not clothe the Emperor and he was exposed as naked so will giving a thumbs down not diminish the truth of what I posted to GodsGrace.

Our allegiance is not determined by who we say our allegiance is to but rather by who and what we support.

 

[brakelite]

Are you quoting me, I can't tell...I have no reference to this post of yours...sorry ..not sure what we are speaking about.

Oh my goodness!!!!! Sorry! I am referencing a post by @GodsGrace ! My bad.

 

[Helen]

Oh my goodness!!!!! Sorry! I am referencing a post by @GodsGrace ! My bad.

Well I know that sometimes I do lose track a bit... so you had me going there...
I was thinking to myself ...”goodness what did I say, and WHERE did I say it, and what am I talking about.

Bless you.....H

 

[Phoneman777]

Wow. Just wow

John Tetzel, who rode through the towns and hamlets of Europe selling indulgences to the masses, was infamously known for the saying, "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs."

I think you're incredulity is better directed to your church for teaching the masses that their pope has the power to deliver the dearly departed from Purgatory - but only those able to pay him for that service. The rest too poor to do so would just have to make their peace with the fact that their "Vicar of God" saw fit to just leave there loved ones there suffering indescribably.

 

[Philip James]

Simony has always been contrary to Church teaching... Those who abuse their office will have to answer for it...