Eternal Security

[GodsGrace]

No he has NOT lost his free will but he has surrendered his will to God, as Christ did -- "not my will but thine be done" and as Paul said "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do". This is so basic that it should not even be coming up.

@Jane_Doe22 has perfectly answered you for me.
Saving me the typing.

"Not MY will but THINE be done" means Jesus had free will and He chose God's will for Him and not His own.

God can tell us what He would have us to do...but it's up to us to choose to do it.
Philemon 1:14
He was saved. He had free will.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

OT: King Saul: 1 Sam. 10:1-13, 15:1-31, 16:1-15; 1 Chron. 10:13

1Sa 10:1 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?

1Sa 10:2 When thou art departed from me to day, then thou shalt find two men by Rachel's sepulchre in the border of Benjamin at Zelzah; and they will say unto thee, The asses which thou wentest to seek are found: and, lo, thy father hath left the care of the asses, and sorroweth for you, saying, What shall I do for my son?

1Sa 10:3 Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:

1Sa 10:4 And they will salute thee, and give thee two loaves of bread; which thou shalt receive of their hands.

1Sa 10:5 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:

1Sa 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

1Sa 10:7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

1Sa 10:8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.

1Sa 10:9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

1Sa 10:10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

1Sa 10:11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?

1Sa 10:12 And one of the same place answered and said, But who is their father? Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?

1Sa 10:13 And when he had made an end of prophesying, he came to the high place.

1Sa 15:1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.

...

1Sa 15:9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

1Sa 15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,

1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

1Sa 15:12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal.

1Sa 15:13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the LORD: I have performed the commandment of the LORD.

1Sa 15:14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?

1Sa 15:15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.

1Sa 15:16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the LORD hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.

1Sa 15:17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the LORD anointed thee king over Israel?

1Sa 15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

1Sa 15:19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?

1Sa 15:20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.

1Sa 15:21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal.

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

1Sa 15:24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

1Sa 15:25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.

1Sa 15:27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.

1Sa 15:28 And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.

1Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

1Sa 15:30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD thy God.

1Sa 15:31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.

1Sa 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.

...

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

...

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Ch 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Saul was "turned into another man" (1 Sam. 10:6) and God had given him "another heart" (1 Sam. 10:9), and it was the LORD (JEHOVAH) that "anoint[ed]" (1 Sam. 10:1; 1 Sam. 15:1) him, and "set [him] up" (1 Sam. 15:11) and the "Spirit of God came upon him" (1 Sam. 10:10) and he "prophesied" (1 Sam. 10:10) among the prophets, for "God was with [him]" (1 Sam. 10:7), and the one who "sent [him]" (1 Sam. 15:18), for at this time, he "was little in [his] own sight" (1 Sam. 15:17), for "the LORD looketh upon the heart" (1 Sam. 16:7) even of Saul, for Saul knew the name of the "LORD" (1 Sam. 15:13) and "worshiped" (1 Sam. 15:31) God.

However, though Saul for a while was "another man", having "another heart", and the "Spirit of God", being at that time and for awhile "little in [his] own sight" (1 Sam. 15:17), he did not continue to follow and obey the voice of the LORD and keep his Law and so "he is turned back from following [God], and hath not performed [The LORD's] commandments" (1 Sam. 15:11), grieved away the Holy Ghost, and committed the unpardonable sin, and "the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul" (1 Sam. 16:14), and later because he refused to turn back (repent) to the LORD, "Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it" (1 Chron. 10:13).

Men have the freedom to "turn back from following" God at any time, even after being given "another heart".

Deut. 7:4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

Deut. 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

This is not only in the OT, but in the NT also:

Acts 4:23-37, 5:1-11.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

NT: Ananias and Sapphira: Acts 4:23-37, 5:1-11.

Act 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Act 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act 4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
Act 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Ananias and Sapphira were among "the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul" (Act. 4:32), and those who were "assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness" (Act. 4:31). Thy had claimed, as with all the others present, "ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common" (Act. 4:32), and "and great grace was upon them all" (Act. 4:33). Many of the persons present, "were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold" (Act. 4:34) and in so doing, "laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need" (Act. 4:35). A specific example of this among the believers who acted rightly in honesty, was "Joses" (Act. 4:36), who, "Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet." (Act. 4:36), and did not attempt to withhold anything, but gave all as promised (having vowed before God and all).

However, we are also given a contrast, of those among "them that believed" (Act. 4:32), once "filled with the Holy Ghost" (Act. 4:31), as "Joses" (Act. 4:36) was, and also made such a vow before "God" (Act. 5:4) and all, to "[sell] a possession" (Act. 5:1) and to "[bring] the prices of the things that were sold" (Act. 4:34), but instead of being faithful in their vow they had made, "Ananias, with Sapphira his wife" (Act. 5:1) decided to "[keep] back part of the price" (Act. 5:2) and "[bring only] a certain part" (Act. 5:2), seeking to hide their deed from the believers, while being noted among the believers as faithful to their vow. They had allowed "satan" to "[fill their] heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land" (Act. 5:3), and in so doing, "not lied unto men, but unto God" (Act. 5:4), even having "agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord" (Act. 5:9), and thus grieved away the Holy Ghost (allowing satan in), and committed the unpardonable sin against God, and so died in their sin, and "gave up the ghost" (Act. 5:5,10), and so "great fear came upon all the church" (Act. 5:11) and all that likewise heard it.

Peter was given information of Ananias and Sapphira's "hearts" (Act. 5:3,4) by the Holy Ghost (Act. 5:3), even the "Spirit of the Lord" (Act. 5:9), being "God" (Act. 5:4), for the Holy Ghost can share portions of His omniscience when needful.

This is a lesson for "all the church" (Act. 5:11), in that, just because a person at one time in their life "believed" (Act. 4:32), and was "filled with the Holy Ghost" (Act. 4:31), does not mean that they cannot of their own free will choose to walk away from God, or to cease from heeding the Holy Ghost, allowing satan in to cause eternal ruin. Sin is very serious.

This is why it is written:

Act. 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Heb. 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

... but they will say what about this text and that text ... and attempt to list a few which seem, at first glance, to support what they desire, but in the end, when studied thoroughly, collapses OSAS (which is not a candlestick, but a stick of dynamite, which provides light for a season, but in the end death and darkness), Irresistible Grace, false "Predestination", and false "Eternal Security" ('do what thou wilt...'), false "Election", etc., instead of dealing with the whole of scripture and the contexts of the texts, they seek out a few handfuls of passages and isolate the texts apart from their immediate contexts, alter definitions of the words therein, and read what they want into them, so that they do not have to be careful about what they think, say or do, and make themselves judges in others relationship to God.

 

[Enoch111]

NT: Ananias and Sapphira: Acts 4:23-37, 5:1-11.

You are promoting the idea that Christians can lose their salvation, and giving this as an example. However that is TOTALLY FALSE.

The apostle John tells us that there is "a sin unto death" (1 John 5:16,17), or a sin which results in premature physical death for Christians who fail to repent. That is what Ananias and Sapphira experienced, NOT loss of salvation.

Therefore Christians are exhorted by Paul to examine themselves and judge themselves BEFORE partaking of the Lord's Supper. If not the "sin unto death" can become a consequence.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation* (condemnation) to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [sleep = the sleep of physical death]. (1 Cor 11:29,30)

English Standard Version (NOT A RELIABLE VERSION)
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. (even though they changed "many" into "some").

*Strong's Concordance
krima: a judgment
Original Word: κρίμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: krima
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-mah)
Short Definition: a judgment, verdict, lawsuit
Definition: (a) a judgment, a verdict; sometimes implying an adverse verdict, a condemnation, (b) a case at law, a lawsuit.

Therefore James also exhorts believers to attempt the restoration of fellow believers who sin, so that they may not experience the "sin unto death".

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul* from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20)

* "Soul" here simply means "person" as in "eight souls were saved by water" (1 Pet 3:20).

All teaching about Christians losing their salvation violates Gospel Truth.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

You are promoting the idea that Christians can lose their salvation, and giving this as an example. ...

The apostle John tells us that there is "a sin unto death" (1 John 5:16,17)...

Indeed, as both examples were given (OT: Saul, 1 Sam. 10:1-13, 15:1-31, 16:1-15; 1 Chron. 10:13, and NT: Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 4:23-37, 5:1-11), which show that a person can turn away from their salvation, and become eternally lost.

John speaks about the sin unto the eternal (second) death. Not physical death. Notice the words, "I do not say that he shall pray for it" (1 Jhn. 5:16). Why? Because that sin which grieves away the Holy Ghost, "never hath forgiveness" (Mar. 3:29), which even King David knew, which is why He prayed, after his own sin with Bathsheba and the killing of Uriah, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (Psa. 51:11), because David knew to pray, "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." (Psa. 19:13), which "great trasngression" is the unpardonable sin.

1 Jhn. 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

The sin not unto death, are those sins, which are committed before the blaspheming away of the Holy Ghost. However, Ananias and Sapphira had grieved away the Holy Ghost, and as such, "satan" filled them, as was done in King Saul's case. No one in those places prayed for them, for their forgivenss, for the Holy Ghost already told Peter their hearts. Read it. They are eternally lost.

 

[Nancy]

You didn't answer my question's about the 'will'. You seem to indicate there is no need for our will. No 'choices' means 'no will'. As I said, 'robot'. Is that what God wants?

I wonder why God made man with a will, if He didn't want man to use it. Why didn't He make Adam without a will if no will was His goal?

What you are saying is that when we get to Heaven we have no will. The reason you must say this is because you know if man has a will, he might choose differently than God. Then what? ie, Adam and Eve.

By the way, did you ever answer my question concerning 'imputation'?

Stranger

When we get to heaven, our WILLS will be the same as God's will. We will not be "robots" He gave us each a personality, each of us different. What makes you think we will not still have our unique personalities in heaven?

 

[Episkopos]

If you think God expects something in return, then it is not that you disagree with eternal security, you disagree with anyone being saved.

Stranger

Have you heard of the parable of the talents? It's in Mat. 25.

What of the servant that buried (added nothing to the grace he was given) his talent? What of the reward of they who made a profit for their Master?

And what of this statement?

Mat. 25:27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers (money changers), and on my return I would have received my money back with interest!

Who are these money changers?

Does God not want us to produce fruit? Or else we are rejected. Does this sound like a God who is not expecting a return on His investment?

 

[Stranger]

When we get to heaven, our WILLS will be the same as God's will. We will not be "robots" He gave us each a personality, each of us different. What makes you think we will not still have our unique personalities in heaven?

I do believe we will have our unique personalities in Heaven, and we will not be robots. See post#216 of my further explanation of how that plays out in our eternal security.

To me the 'will' is complicated. Again, I am just thinking out loud here. If you have your own will, which you do, can you imagine, for eternity, that your will is always God's will? If so, where is the individual personality? With the millions of believers in Heaven, do we always agree with each other, and our wills are always the same? To me that isn't much different than a robot.

I say this respectfully before God, that we can have a will that may not be the same as God's will, yet we submit to God's will. Isn't that what Jesus did in the Garden. (Matt. 26:39) "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Isn't the will of Jesus at this time opposed to the Father? Yet He submits to the Father. This way I can see our unique personalities allowed their expression, yet always submitting to the will of the Father.

In other words, when satan exercised his will, "I will be like the Most High", that was sin. But when Jesus exercised His will, "let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will", it was not sin because He was always willing to submit to the will of the Father.

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

I do believe we will have our unique personalities in Heaven, and we will not be robots. See post#216 of my further explanation of how that plays out in our eternal security.

To me the 'will' is complicated. Again, I am just thinking out loud here. If you have your own will, which you do, can you imagine, for eternity, that your will is always God's will? If so, where is the individual personality? With the millions of believers in Heaven, do we always agree with each other, and our wills are always the same? To me that isn't much different than a robot.

I say this respectfully before God, that we can have a will that may not be the same as God's will, yet we submit to God's will. Isn't that what Jesus did in the Garden. (Matt. 26:39) "...O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Isn't the will of Jesus at this time opposed to the Father? Yet He submits to the Father. This way I can see our unique personalities allowed their expression, yet always submitting to the will of the Father.

In other words, when satan exercised his will, "I will be like the Most High", that was sin. But when Jesus exercised His will, "let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will", it was not sin because He was always willing to submit to the will of the Father.

Stranger

Good points...yes. Will everybody submit to His will in heaven, I wonder?

 

[Stranger]

Good points...yes. Will everybody submit to His will in heaven, I wonder?

And would not this be the all important reason that our faith has already established us 'in Christ', so that my 'will' no longer affects my salvation; my eternal security. My faith, not my will, placed me in Christ. Thus my will cannot remove me from Christ. We are secured both here and there.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Have you heard of the parable of the talents? It's in Mat. 25.

What of the servant that buried (added nothing to the grace he was given) his talent? What of the reward of they who made a profit for their Master?

And what of this statement?

Mat. 25:27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers (money changers), and on my return I would have received my money back with interest!

Who are these money changers?

Does God not want us to produce fruit? Or else we are rejected. Does this sound like a God who is not expecting a return on His investment?

We are talking about eternal security. Not rewards or proofs of our faith.

All rewards and fruits and interests are for our benefit. Not God's. Do you think we contribute to God's wealth by our works? Do you think God is worried about making a profit? Silly.

But yes, I have heard of the parable of the talents. Have you heard of the kingdom of heaven? What is the kingdom of heaven? It is found throughout (Matthew), and only in (Matthew). And the parable you speak of is a parable about the 'kingdom of heaven'. So, tell me what the kingdom of heaven is.

Stranger

 

[Episkopos]

"Stranger, post: 434748, member: 7282"]We are talking about eternal security. Not rewards or proofs of our faith.

All rewards and fruits and interests are for our benefit. Not God's. Do you think we contribute to God's wealth by our works? Do you think God is worried about making a profit? Silly.

What is silly is your notion of the fruit being for our benefit...since we are rejected for not bearing it. It is definitely in our interest then to bear fruit...but we are to do things for God's glory. We indeed contribute to His glory by our works. Otherwise we would get a reward for gifts. So we would get a gift for having a gift. Silly indeed. I think you need to think on this a tad longer.

But yes, I have heard of the parable of the talents. Have you heard of the kingdom of heaven? What is the kingdom of heaven? It is found throughout (Matthew), and only in (Matthew). And the parable you speak of is a parable about the 'kingdom of heaven'. So, tell me what the kingdom of heaven is.

Stranger

It is Zion. it is the place of a future mutual habitation...God and men...as well as the place we walk in through the Spirit now. When we abide in Christ we are there with Him.

 

[Stranger]

"Stranger, post: 434748, member: 7282"]We are talking about eternal security. Not rewards or proofs of our faith.

All rewards and fruits and interests are for our benefit. Not God's. Do you think we contribute to God's wealth by our works? Do you think God is worried about making a profit? Silly.

What is silly is your notion of the fruit being for our benefit...since we are rejected for not bearing it. It is definitely in our interest then to bear fruit...but we are to do things for God's glory. We indeed contribute to His glory by our works. Otherwise we would get a reward for gifts. So we would get a gift for having a gift. Silly indeed. I think you need to think on this a tad longer.

But yes, I have heard of the parable of the talents. Have you heard of the kingdom of heaven? What is the kingdom of heaven? It is found throughout (Matthew), and only in (Matthew). And the parable you speak of is a parable about the 'kingdom of heaven'. So, tell me what the kingdom of heaven is.

Stranger

It is Zion. it is the place of a future mutual habitation...God and men...as well as the place we walk in through the Spirit now. When we abide in Christ we are there with Him.

I have thought on it. Nothing you or I do contribute to God's glory whatsoever. We benefit without a doubt in our fruit and works. We add nothing to God in our fruit and our works. Just like our sin takes nothing away from God, neither does our works or fruit add anything to God.

The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom of God upon the earth as promised to Israel as the ruling priestly nation. This is why it is only found in the Gospel of Matthew as Matthew is the Gospel of the kingdom. It's emphasis is totally Jewish.

Stranger

 

[Episkopos]

"Stranger, post: 434762, member: 7282"]I have thought on it. Nothing you or I do contribute to God's glory whatsoever. We benefit without a doubt in our fruit and works. We add nothing to God in our fruit and our works. Just like our sin takes nothing away from God, neither does our works or fruit add anything to God.

You're just not seeing it. God is looking for fruit...the same way a gardener looks for produce in his garden. God is like a gardener. We are His field. If a plant is not producing...it is pulled out to make room for a plant that does.

The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom of God upon the earth as promised to Israel as the ruling priestly nation. This is why it is only found in the Gospel of Matthew as Matthew is the Gospel of the kingdom. It's emphasis is totally Jewish.

Stranger

This is way off... There is no difference in spiritual things for one human to the next. You have a lot of work ahead of you it would seem..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have thought on it. Nothing you or I do contribute to God's glory whatsoever.

I haven’t read all the post here, but what about:

1 Peter 4:14
[14] If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

2 Thessalonians 1:10
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Romans 1:21
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[Stranger]

"Stranger, post: 434762, member: 7282"]I have thought on it. Nothing you or I do contribute to God's glory whatsoever. We benefit without a doubt in our fruit and works. We add nothing to God in our fruit and our works. Just like our sin takes nothing away from God, neither does our works or fruit add anything to God.

You're just not seeing it. God is looking for fruit...the same way a gardener looks for produce in his garden. God is like a gardener. We are His field. If a plant is not producing...it is pulled out to make room for a plant that does.

The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom of God upon the earth as promised to Israel as the ruling priestly nation. This is why it is only found in the Gospel of Matthew as Matthew is the Gospel of the kingdom. It's emphasis is totally Jewish.

Stranger

This is way off... There is no difference in spiritual things for one human to the next. You have a lot of work ahead of you it would seem..

Again, fruit and works are not the subject. Eternal security.

Again, our fruit and works add nothing to God. They benefit us.

"no difference in spiritual things from one human to the next". Gee that is deep. I thought we were talking about the kingdom of heaven. It isn't just spiritual.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I haven’t read all the post here, but what about:

1 Peter 4:14
[14] If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye ; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

2 Thessalonians 1:10
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Romans 1:21
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

We can reflect God's glory. We do not add to His glory.

Stranger