Eternal Security

[1stCenturyLady]

Same ones as Christ in Matthew 19
As God in Ex 20
As Paul in Romans 13
As James in James 2.

And so Paul reminds us that in that list of commandments - the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

Gal 1:6-9 "though WE (Apostles) or an ANGEL from heaven should come to you with a different doctrine - let him be accursed".

John knew about that.

They all speak in agreement.

"This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2 is not the "circular statement" -- "This is the Love of God that we Love God"

Listen closely. 1 John 5:3 is what I'm asking about. The answer to what commandments John is talking about in this conclusion is in the same epistle. What are they?

 

[BobRyan]

In other words, the [Old Covenant] law was not made for righteous men because righteous men would not do such things. However, any man that does such things commits unrighteous acts. Any Christian that breaks the law commits an unrighteous act (sin) even if it is a "little white lie". They have chosen to break it rather than use it lawfully. Several of you have said there is no more law for Christians, yet Paul says there is and it is good and needs to be used lawfully.

In fact Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And as John reminds us "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[BobRyan]

Listen closely. 1 John 5:3 is what I'm asking about. The answer to what commandments John is talking about in this conclusion is in the same epistle. What are they?

What I am saying is that Paul and John agree.

In fact Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And as John reminds us "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And Paul says that in those commandments "Honor our Father and mother" is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

John never quotes the commandment that says "do not take God's name in vain" but he affirms that part of God's Word -- all the same. As we all know.

And John makes no circular statement of the form "this IS the Love of God - that we Love God" -- as we all know.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What I am saying is that Paul and John agree.

In fact Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And as John reminds us "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
And Paul says that in those commandments "Honor our Father and mother" is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

John never quotes the commandment that says "do not take God's name in vain" but he affirms that part of God's Word -- all the same. As we all know.

Wrong answer. Where in 1 John does he list the commandments?

 

[gadar perets]

This is the basis of your error. It is not the Ten Commandments that are written on our hearts. They were written on stone, and merely based on the eternal laws of God as examples to teach and show sin. It is the Royal law that is written on our hearts - the eternal laws from before the foundation of the world. There are two. To love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Lucifer broke these laws and condemned a third of the angels with himself.

Wishful thinking. Where is your Scriptural evidence?

The New Testament laws mirror the eternal laws, and are capable of eternal life, whereas the Ten Commandments could not do anything but show SIN, and death. And because of sin, could not be kept.

If the Ten could not be kept, how could Paul say he was "blameless" concerning the righteousness in the law? How could he say, "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all"? Yeshua proved they could be kept.

The NT laws are to believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and to love one another. Any reference to "commandments" in the writings of John are in direct reference to these two commandments, but have been twisted in ignorance by evil men to mean the old law of sin and death.

There are over 1,000 NT laws we are to keep. The two greatest are the foundation and those two are founded upon love.

These ignoramuses know nothing of the Law of Liberty, so keep stressing not breaking commandments. They don't know that a true Christian has the seed of the Spirit, and cannot break commandments, because their new nature just doesn't want to. A true Christian as the Holy Spirit. Those who say to Jesus, "Lord, Lord," but do not have the Holy Spirit, Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you." It is only by the Spirit are we known.

Did you read post #573 where I explained the "Law of Liberty"? Christians break the commandments every single day. You must be retired living in a closet. Or do you accuse the millions of Christians that sin of not being "true Christians"? If those who say "Lord, Lord" do not have the Holy Spirit, then how are they prophesying in his name? and in his name casting out devils? and in his name doing many wonderful works? They have the Holy Spirit, but they grieve it by their lawlessness.

 

[Stranger]

It seems you do not know the true meaning of grace, if you believe a Christian continues to sin. Grace is the power of God to NOT sin. It is not something we earn. We merely repent and Jesus gives us His own sinless Spirit to make us like Himself. The Reformation did not understand the true meaning of grace. It is why Jesus called that church age, the dead church in Revelation 3.

This strange powerless doctrine of white-washed grace, calling it "unmerited" favor, started centuries ago and turns the grace of God into licentiousness. The truth is Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5. That doesn't mean we sin and it isn't imputed to us. It means we don't sin at all, making us dead to the law. 1 John 3:9 says, "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." John starts with "sin is lawlessness." The law said we shall honor our parents, not to steal, kill, not to commit adultery, not to lie, and not to covet. A Christian does not break any of these willful sins, therefore are not under these laws.

If a Christian does not continue to sin, why does He need grace?

Stranger

 

[gadar perets]

Do you know what "commandments" John is referring to?

God's commandments found in "Torah" which are written on our hearts and minds.

 

[Stranger]

God receives us as we are. It's not:
Get right and then come to God.

It's:
Come to God and then get right.
That's sanctification...getting right. It lasts a life-time.

Of course you can add to Jesus' sacrifice. What can we add? Enough of our love so that we believe and follow and trust in the One who died for us to be freed from the slavery of sin.

God is not a moral being? Who created morality? Man?
Man destroyed morality...think of Adam and every other human you know.

I said we SHOULD not sin. I NEVER say we do not sin. In fact, the closer we get to God, the more we feel like sinners.

Do I sound preachy? Sorry. I don't mean to.

I don't mind preachy. But just consider. What is the difference? Either way, you and I are sinners. That is before and after becoming a Christian. Either way, we need the grace of God always. You can say you want to obey, yet you don't always. I say we need to walk in the Spirit, yet we still sin and don't obey always. Either way, it is all about grace. Not obedience to the law.

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If the Ten could not be kept, how could Paul say he was "blameless" concerning the righteousness in the law? How could he say, "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all"? Yeshua proved they could be kept.

The Ten Commandments say don't kill. They don't say don't hate. The iniquity of the heart could still remain in a person who kept that commandment. Thus that commandment could not make one righteous, because sin remained in the form of hate. Paul could say your quote because he had been freed from the law of sin and death by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Don't you see that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

While hate remains, you are a breaker of the whole law. So it wasn't the Ten Commandments that are written on the heart, but to LOVE.

 

[Stranger]

You obviously do not know how to please God.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
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Yeshua knew full well that to obey his Father is pleasing to Him.

1 Corinthians 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
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This takes conscious thought. We must know what pleases Yeshua and then do it. What pleases him? "If you love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15

1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Yeshua, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
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The Thessalonians were taught how to walk (what they must do) to please God. What pleases God? "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3

2 Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
​

We must know what pleases Yeshua and then DO IT. In context, we please Him by not getting entangled with worldly concerns, but focus on doing his will which includes keeping his commandments.

None of the verses you give speak to keeping the Mosaic Law to please God, except those of Jesus Christ. But Christ was under the Law and must fulfill the Law. If you want to please God now by keeping the Law, all you do is establish your righteousness. And you know what that looks like...right?

Strnager

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If a Christian does not continue to sin, why does He need grace?

Stranger

Grace is what prevents him from sinning. Grace equals power. The Reformation made it like a free pass, or in Monopoly, a "get out of jail" free card.

Here is something you might like to learn. The Jews had a style of writing unlike the Greek. Knowing this style allows us to see past what is written into the hidden meaning. One of the styles is called "doubling" or "parallisms." They say the same thing twice using similar words, but they clarify one another. Here is a pertinent example concerning the true meaning of grace. Grace equals power.

Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

You find many of these parallelisms by Hebrew writers of the Bible.

 

[gadar perets]

None of the verses you give speak to keeping the Mosaic Law to please God, except those of Jesus Christ. But Christ was under the Law and must fulfill the Law. If you want to please God now by keeping the Law, all you do is establish your righteousness. And you know what that looks like...right?

Strnager

Can't you see the difference between obeying a law and seeking to be made righteous by obeying a law?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

God's commandments found in "Torah" which are written on our hearts and minds.

Is the Torah listed in 1 John? Is my question too hard for you? There are only 5 short chapters. You can't find where John says, "and this is His commandment"

 

[gadar perets]

Is the Torah listed in 1 John? Is this question too hard for you. There are only 5 short chapters. You can't find where John says, "and this is His commandment"

Torah does not need to be listed. We all know full well that Torah is written on the hearts and minds of John's audience. I know you are thinking about 1 John 3:23. If you think those are the only two commandments John thinks we should keep, you are profoundly mistaken.

 

[Stranger]

Grace is what prevents him from sinning. Grace equals power. The Reformation made it like a free pass, or in Monopoly, a "get out of jail" free card.

Here is something you might like to learn. The Jews had a style of writing unlike the Greek. Knowing this style allows us to see past what is written into the hidden meaning. One of the styles is called "doubling" or "parallisms." They say the same thing twice using similar words, but they clarify one another. Here is a pertinent example concerning the true meaning of grace. Grace equals power.

Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

You find many of these parallelisms by Hebrew writers of the Bible.

Grace is what makes the believer acceptable to God, due to Christ's work, though the believer is a sinner. The more one walks in the Spirit, the less he sins. But we are always sinners.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Can't you see the difference between obeying a law and seeking to be made righteous by obeying a law?

The difference is the motivation. Your motivation is to obey the Law and please God. So you say you don't break the Law. Your righteousness is produced, which is filthy rags. The believer who walks in the Spirit, is not trying to obey the Law to please God, he is walking in the Spirit. As a result he does those things found in the Law. But he didn't do them to obey the Law. It was just a product of walking in the Spirit. Thus the righteousness of God is seen and not your own righteousness.

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Wishful thinking. Where is your Scriptural evidence?

If you really fulfill the ROYAL LAW according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

We are either under the old covenant laws to be judged by them, or the royal laws written on our hearts. The royal law is the law of liberty. The Ten Commandments are the ministry of death, written and engraved on stone.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Torah does not need to be listed. We all know full well that Torah is written on the hearts and minds of John's audience. I know you are thinking about 1 John 3:23. If you think those are the only two commandments John thinks we should keep, you are profoundly mistaken.

Where is belief on the name of Jesus in the Torah? Or is this just a Christian belief? If you deny Jesus, you don't have the Father either. So who is profoundly mistaken???

 

[1stCenturyLady]

But we are always sinners.

Where is that written in scripture? That is another Reformation teaching lie.

Is someone freed from sin, still called a slave to sin?

God calls us saints.

 

[gadar perets]

If you really fulfill the ROYAL LAW according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

We are either under the old covenant laws to be judged by them, or the royal laws written on our hearts. The royal law is the law of liberty. The Ten Commandments are the ministry of death, written and engraved on stone.

None of this says the Ten Commandments are not written on our hearts. Of course the second greatest command is written on our hearts. That is because it is part of "Torah". So is the greatest commandment and the Ten.