" Surrender.."

[Episkopos]

We can only stay fully surrendered as our level of maturity permits. After that the soul gets shaken from the peace that had previously been fully pleasing to it.

 

[bbyrd009]

For every picture there is a negative. For every truth there is a lie that looks the same to the carnal mind. The truth is very difficult to follow. The lie looks like greasy grace.

when someone tells you that they are telling you the truth, they are lying, and not only that, they have revealed that they could not hear the truth even if they read it from the Book of Truth, near as i can tell. Once one has determined truth, no other truth can be heard. All are deceived, but none so much as True Believers, as Scripture even plainly illustrates in many places

 

[Episkopos]

when someone tells you that they are telling you the truth, they are lying, and not only that, they have revealed that they could not hear the truth even if they read it from the Book of Truth, near as i can tell. Once one has determined truth, no other truth can be heard. All are deceived, but none so much as True Believers, as Scripture even plainly illustrates in many places

Agreed. We need to come at it from the other side...not believing in something until we are convinced by the Lord. Even then....there is much more to be learned. Learning to ask the right questions and Who to ask them to. So then we are to seek for that encounter and be shown what is the truth...even if our minds have a hard time with it. Most believers believe what they find convenient to believe. But the source is themselves. We need to be weaned of this tendency...and turn to God to be instructed by Him.

 

[Helen]

We can only stay fully surrendered as our level of maturity permits. After that the soul gets shaken from the peace that had previously been fully pleasing to it.

I believe this is where we have to be solid in our spiritual Position in Christ, otherwise we would get far too obsessed by our actual 'walking' Condition ..which as yet does not always measure up to our spiritual Position!!

When that is not fully understood then it can so easily become a religion of 'works' at the expense of the Faith Walk.
While others rejoice in their Position, but care little about their Condition.
It is a fine balance..well for me it is!!

A bit like the faith v work thing...it is never either or, but both. :)

 

[Episkopos]

I believe this is where we have to be solid in our spiritual Position in Christ, otherwise we would get far too obsessed by our actual 'walking' Condition ..which as yet does not always measure up to our spiritual Position!!

When that is not fully understood then it can so easily become a religion of 'works' at the expense of the Faith Walk.
While others rejoice in their Position, but care little about their Condition.
It is a fine balance..well for me it is!!

A bit like the faith v work thing...it is never either or, but both. :)

I trust in God's love and His calling. I don't need a position...as i see HIS position is love. But you raise up a good point. And the words condition and position do go along nicely together.

My formula of "calling" ( by faith) and "faithfulness" to that calling...doesn't sound as good together...but it works for me.

 

[Enoch111]

All are deceived, but none so much as True Believers, as Scripture even plainly illustrates in many places

Right. Black is white and white is black. Truth is lies, and lies are truth. True believers are deceived, and false professors are not. Where do you come up with this kind of nonsense?

 

[Enoch111]

I trust in God's love and His calling. I don't need a position...as i see HIS position is love.

Episkopos,
From what I gather from your posts, it would appear that you are inventing your own theology (as are many others).

"I don't need a position" speaks volumes. The fact is that no one "needs" a position, but God places believers into a certain position in Christ. But of course, you are far above that, since you "don't need a position".

"His position is love" means absolutely nothing. God IS Love. Just as God is Light and God is Life. That is His character and His essence, not His "position".

 

[Dave L]

Okay...I read this short quote and thought.." I don't feel that it is THAT easy!!"

Has anyone found , that once we have surrender fully ( and really believe that we have done so ) ...that it is a "once and for all thing". Over with, done and dusted...never ever to fall back into our own will or way again?

I wish that I could say that for me what is written below is true.
I have thought so many times over the decades...but I cannot say that it all "stayed in it places" ..and the old-man is dead and over with.
Or have I got it wrong ?...that the will and my own life, which I surrendered in what I believed to be genuine brokenness...is not one and the same with the 'old-self man'? Please comment on the below.
I wish I could affirm that it is where I am too.
=========================

After Surrender— Then What?
By Oswald Chambers

I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. —John 17:4


True surrender is not simply surrender of our external life but surrender of our will— and once that is done, surrender is complete. The greatest crisis we ever face is the surrender of our will. Yet God never forces a person’s will into surrender, and He never begs. He patiently waits until that person willingly yields to Him. And once that battle has been fought, it never needs to be fought again.

Surrender for Devotion. “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself…” (Matthew 16:24). The surrender here is of my self to Jesus, with His rest at the heart of my being. He says, “If you want to be My disciple, you must give up your right to yourself to Me.” And once this is done, the remainder of your life will exhibit nothing but the evidence of this surrender, and you never need to be concerned again with what the future may hold for you. Whatever your circumstances may be, Jesus is totally sufficient (see 2 Corinthians 12:9 and Philippians 4:19).

O.C.

Here's my approach to walking in the Spirit.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.” (2 Corinthians 10:5–6)

We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

And we replace it with:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules out thoughts and actions.

 

[Helen]

Here's my approach to walking in the Spirit.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.” (2 Corinthians 10:5–6)

We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

And we replace it with:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules out thoughts and actions.

Good post ...thank you for that.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos,
From what I gather from your posts, it would appear that you are inventing your own theology (as are many others).

"I don't need a position" speaks volumes. The fact is that no one "needs" a position, but God places believers into a certain position in Christ. But of course, you are far above that, since you "don't need a position".

"His position is love" means absolutely nothing. God IS Love. Just as God is Light and God is Life. That is His character and His essence, not His "position".

People like to calculate who they esteem themselves to be. When you get a job...you want to know where you stand....your duties, salary and so on...

Well a lot of people bring that attitude over to their walk in the Lord. They need some definite idea of what they are and what they are to do.

But God is just looking for people who are available to Him. Fellowship with God is just that...no need to know more than that.

Those who have been faithful will receive authority and a new name....etc

But that is for another time.

 

[Frank Lee]

Hahaha. Our pastor used to say that his sacrifice keeps dragging itself off the altar and he has to drag it back.

Enter that great philosopher Pogo..."we has met de enemy and dey is us" !

 

[amadeus]

ya, i guess a few might actually attain that, but certainly not by adhering to
"And once that battle has been fought, it never needs to be fought again."
i mean this guy has lost his mind, or at least most of his Bible lol

Jesus certainly fought more than one battle before he finally was able to say, "... I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Why would we suppose that we have only one battle to fight in our war?

 

[amadeus]

I do think he gives false hope ...If most of them that he preached to believe that he had attained to that and could “live there”....then that would make everyone else second class Christians....including Paul....Paul said just the opposite...”I have not yet attained...”
Surly attaining to full surrender and “living there” a person could declare themselves 100% dead to self. (But the very declaration itself would make that null and void..I would think)

Surely ‘Fully surrendered’ would = Perfect, wouldn’t it? Not sure about that.

The problem with too quickly on our own saying that we have already surrendered completely that we are 100% dead is that we are still "in" the world. In the world, we will continue to be tempted and we speak too highly of our position without the lead of the Holy Ghost, then the "pride of life" gets hold of us. If it is not one sin then it is another. Who can control this? God alone.

 

[amadeus]

I tie mine down...

And then into the fire you go.

 

[amadeus]

when someone tells you that they are telling you the truth, they are lying, and not only that, they have revealed that they could not hear the truth even if they read it from the Book of Truth, near as i can tell. Once one has determined truth, no other truth can be heard. All are deceived, but none so much as True Believers, as Scripture even plainly illustrates in many places

All are deceived until every battle has been fought and every obstacle standing between them and God has been overcome. God loses no battles in which He participates. The problem with us is that too often we lock the door against God and go into battle alone.

 

[Nancy]

Fair enough...I'm praying for ties that don't have a best before date. Mine seem to get time expired. ;)

Commendable.

And then into the fire you go.

Lol...I just hope and pray that there are some things left after the fire!

 

[Philip James]

Keeping the desire to be connected to God's will has to be a priority first thing upon waking...
after awhile we are more often on auto-pilot as the grooves in our brains (synaptic pathways, right?) are more habitual to us.

Surrendering ourselves to HIM daily until it becomes habitual is a sure way to follow on the path HE has laid out for us....

Pax!

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Surrendering ourselves to HIM daily until it becomes habitual is a sure way to follow on the path HE has laid out for us....
Pax!

And ya get used to doing His Will...so that if we feel irritation (not His will)
with a cashier or someone...it feels so wrong, so icky...I have learned to drop any unconscious
expectation, say, ha, of nice customer service...his Will is be kind (ie, #1.love your neighbor),
#2. love Him...that's really all.
WHAT Freedom!!!! How simple He has made it for us!
When that groove is made regularly...then any disappointment or annoyance of any kind can dissipate like a vapor.

I compare it to a rut that a wagon wheel makes on a dirt road...if we are negative too often
(which is not surrendering to our Father's wishes), a rut is easy for our wheel to fall into....
However! :) If we keep pushing away any selfish, prideful negativity....and create habitual kind, forgiving actions and thoughts, (the Holy Spirit's wish for us) ...THOSE
are the things we gravitate too most easily...like a new 'rut' for our wagon wheel.

I am an example of that old rut (oh brother)....changing to the new kind and forgiving rut (grove), pathway more traveled!!!!

 

[justbyfaith]

Okay...I read this short quote and thought.." I don't feel that it is THAT easy!!"

Has anyone found , that once we have surrender fully ( and really believe that we have done so ) ...that it is a "once and for all thing". Over with, done and dusted...never ever to fall back into our own will or way again?

I wish that I could say that for me what is written below is true.
I have thought so many times over the decades...but I cannot say that it all "stayed in it places" ..and the old-man is dead and over with.
Or have I got it wrong ?...that the will and my own life, which I surrendered in what I believed to be genuine brokenness...is not one and the same with the 'old-self man'? Please comment on the below.
I wish I could affirm that it is where I am too.
=========================

After Surrender— Then What?
By Oswald Chambers

I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. —John 17:4


True surrender is not simply surrender of our external life but surrender of our will— and once that is done, surrender is complete. The greatest crisis we ever face is the surrender of our will. Yet God never forces a person’s will into surrender, and He never begs. He patiently waits until that person willingly yields to Him. And once that battle has been fought, it never needs to be fought again.

This was left out:

Surrender for Deliverance. "Come to Me . . . and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). It is only after we have begun to experience what salvation really means that we surrender our will to Jesus for rest. Whatever is causing us a sense of uncertainty is actually a call to our will--"Come to Me." And is is a voluntary coming.

Oswald continued, in what was quoted by the OP:

Surrender for Devotion. “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself…” (Matthew 16:24). The surrender here is of my self to Jesus, with His rest at the heart of my being. He says, “If you want to be My disciple, you must give up your right to yourself to Me.” And once this is done, the remainder of your life will exhibit nothing but the evidence of this surrender, and you never need to be concerned again with what the future may hold for you. Whatever your circumstances may be, Jesus is totally sufficient (see 2 Corinthians 12:9 and Philippians 4:19).

O.C.

Oswald continued in that devotion (as pertains to September 13 in My Utmost For His Highest):

Surrender for Death. "...another will gird you..." (John 21:18, also see verse 19). have you learned what it means to be girded for death? Beware of some surrender that you make to God in some ecstatic moment in your life, because you are apt to take it back again. True surrender is a matter of being "united together [with Jesus] in the likeness of His death" (Romans 6:5) until nothing ever appeals to you that did not appeal to Him.
And after you surrender--then what? Youe entire life should be characterized by an eagerness to maintain unbroken fellowship and oneness with God.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

'Let him deny himself'....love that phrase...I have SUCH opportunities to deny myself...
if 'myself' is the lower ego self...that manifests as pride, indignation at words said, being way unappreciated...
I drop these carnal stupid things ALL the time...since I am a care
giver for me sister...thus, booted out of my home office, of 16 years, to work 2-3 days a week with four other bozos....OOPS,
I mean co-workers! Oh my, the forgiveness opportunities are all around me!!!!
What a great way to see how I have grown, by His Grace....dropping and laughing at so
many things I would have dreamed of throwing Molotov cocktails over in my 20s!