Sound Doctrine

[Prayer Warrior]

Oh PW....I thought you were more knowledgeable than that about things such as these.

Please provide your proof that "to become a Catholic, they have to agree with the Catechism".

Patient Mary

This profession of faith: (from Catholic.com)

The Christian fully enters the Church by profession of faith and formal reception. For the profession of faith, the candidate says,
"I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."
​

This includes the Catechism, no?
.

 

[amadeus]

I know others that believe scripture is the flesh of Christ.
I wonder if some church teaches this.....
I'd ask @amadeus but he already stated God told him...

I do believe that the scripture is the dead flesh of Jesus. When it is quickened by the Holy Spirit then it is the Word of God. I don't know if any church group teaches this. I know some individuals who believe it, but not any specific groups [churches]. God does speak to me as one of His sheep. Anyone who is one of His sheep hears His voice:


"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5



"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:25-27

So I would guess the question we might ask is, Are you or am I one of His sheep?

 

[GodsGrace]

I added this to that post: (from Catholic.com)

The Christian fully enters the Church by profession of faith and formal reception. For the profession of faith, the candidate says, "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."​

This certainly includes the Catechism.

Have you ever read the catechism?
The first 60 paragraphs or so should be read by every Christian.
The rest is not very clear and it's not an easy book to use for teaching.

You think everyone that states what you posted means it?
If there's something they don't agree with, they're told to pray about it. There's an expression for this which doesn't come to mind right now. This is not followed up....

 

[amadeus]

This is funny!
First of all, most Catholics have no idea what's in the Bible or the catechism.
And I don't know any Catholic that agrees with all their doctrine. They're Supposed to, and there's an official procedure if they don't, but no attention is paid to it.

This was certainly true of me. I was a faithful Catholic with what I had, but there were huge gaps in my knowledge of what I as a Catholic was supposed to know and to believe, which in itself is laughable. I seriously considered the priesthood as a teenager because I ignorantly thought that in that way I could get to know God better and would be allowed or required to read the Bible for myself.

Much of what I now know about Catholicism I learned on another Christian Internet forum from one particular Catholic whose teaching methods were similar to those of our friend, BOL.

 

[Marymog]

I had the same thought.
Sounds wrong to me,,,would a bishop allow this???
I doubt it.
Rollo is telling the truth, but was the other guy?

This is a stretch but......The only thing I can figure is to defray the cost of the RCIA class....but that is, to the best of my knowledge, ALWAYS free. I wouldn't call Rollo a liar but possibly the other guy was liar? I just don't know.

If @Rollo Tamasi could give us more information (which Church) we could figure it out

Mary

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Have you ever read the catechism?
The first 60 paragraphs or so should be read by every Christian.
The rest is not very clear and it's not an easy book to use for teaching.

You think everyone that states what you posted means it?
If there's something they don't agree with, they're told to pray about it. There's an expression for this which doesn't come to mind right now. This is not followed up....

I have read some of the Catechism, not a lot. My understanding is that a Catholic could get in trouble for disagreeing with certain doctrine/dogma. I'm sure that Mary will correct me if I'm wrong. She's good that way....
.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do believe that the scripture is the dead flesh of Jesus. When it is quickened by the Holy Spirit then it is the Word of God. I don't know if any church group teaches this. I know some individuals who believe it, but not any specific groups [churches]. God does speak to me as one of His sheep. Anyone who is one of His sheep hears His voice:


"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5



"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:25-27

So I would guess the question we might ask is, Are you or am I one of His sheep?

Of course I agree with you A.
I just don't understand how you get to the Bible being the dead flesh of Jesus.
I know there's no scripture for this, but if it helps you to understand something, I have no problem with this.
God can have a personal revelation for us,,,

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a stretch but......The only thing I can figure is to defray the cost of the RCIA class....but that is, to the best of my knowledge, ALWAYS free. I wouldn't call Rollo a liar but possibly the other guy was liar? I just don't know.

If @Rollo Tamasi could give us more information (which Church) we could figure it out

Mary

RCIA is supposed to be free.
Books are purchased separately.
I don't think the other guy is lying,,,,who knows what he was talking about....

 

[GodsGrace]

I have read some of the Catechism, not a lot. My understanding is that a Catholic could get in trouble for disagreeing with certain doctrine/dogma. I'm sure that Mary will correct me if I'm wrong. She's good that way....
.

Let's hear her.

Ive disagreed with priests,,,,I'm not in trouble!

 

[Episkopos]

Really? The mass started in the Dark Ages? Did the Dark Ages start around the year 150AD?

Ever been to a Catholic Mass Episskopos? If you had you would recognize in the mass what Justin wrote almost 1,900 years ago. Maybe YOU should "check it out":

On the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a given city or rural district. The memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read (scripture), as long as time permits. Then when the reader ceases, the president (priest) in a discourse admonishes and urges the imitation of these good things. Next we all rise together and send up prayers. When we cease from our prayer, bread is presented and wine and water. The president in the same manner sends up prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people sing out their assent, saying the 'Amen.' A distribution and participation of the elements (Eucharist) for which thanks have been given is made to each person, and to those who are not present they are sent by the deacons. Those who have means and are willing, each according to his own choice, gives what he wills, and what is collected is deposited with the president. He provides for the orphans and widows, those who are in need on account of sickness or some other cause, those who are in bonds, strangers who are sojourning, and in a word he becomes the protector of all who are in need. And this food is called among us the Eucharist….it is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. (Justin Martyr)

You don't even know your own Christian history. How sad

Historical Mary

I was raised Catholic. The RCC history is a mess wrapped in an enigma. Mary, for instance, was only recognized as "immaculate" in 1854. Reading the bible was forbidden even into the 20th century. And the mass was said in Latin for at least a millenia where no one could understand the rituals.

Can you say...bizarre?!!

 

[Marymog]

This profession of faith: (from Catholic.com)

The Christian fully enters the Church by profession of faith and formal reception. For the profession of faith, the candidate says,
"I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."
​

This includes the Catechism, no?

Got it. I now see what you are saying. You didn't mean singular (THE catechism only). I apologize.

Yes, that line is professed in the Rite of Initiation when one becomes a Catholic. Scripture says The Church is the Pillar and foundation of Truth. Shouldn't one believe what the Pillar and Foundation of Truth teaches and proclaims?

What do Protestants profess? That they believe and profess and teach all that they feel like the Holy Spirit is telling them personally. Why is it OK for a Protestant to believe as true everything they teach themselves but a Catholic can't believe everything The Church teaches them? Kind of sounds hypocritical to me.

I know, I know. One has to first discern WHICH church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Which one do you choose PW?

Mary

 

[amadeus]

Of course I agree with you A.

Well then are not moving toward being one with God and His Son?

I just don't understand how you get to the Bible being the dead flesh of Jesus.

Is not Jesus the Word made flesh as per John 1:14? How is it we are to become like Him? Is it not by moving from death to Life? Will memorizing the Bible do it?
Perhaps what is needed to eat his flesh and drink his blood?


"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

If a person only eats his flesh without also drinking his blood, what will he have consumed? Is this not what the dye hard atheists does when he studies the Bible in order to use his knowledge of it to trip up supposed followers of Jesus? The difference between what such an atheist does and what the sincere believer does lies in the Holy Spirit directing the sincere believer. The Holy Spirit is the blood of Jesus... but perhaps you do not believe that... Is not the Life in the blood? There is the natural life of the body of flesh as opposed the real Life of the new man. The former has the red blood coursing through his veins. The latter has the Holy Spirit within him quickening the flesh [dead scripture] he has eaten [heard or read or studied].

I know there's no scripture for this, but if it helps you to understand something, I have no problem with this.
God can have a personal revelation for us,,,

Jesus on the cross was dead before he resurrected from the dead. Before their resurrection in a person by the quickening of the Holy Spirit the words of scripture he has consumed are likewise dead.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Got it. I now see what you are saying. You didn't mean singular (THE catechism only). I apologize.

Yes, that line is professed in the Rite of Initiation when one becomes a Catholic. Scripture says The Church is the Pillar and foundation of Truth. Shouldn't one believe what the Pillar and Foundation of Truth teaches and proclaims?

What do Protestants profess? That they believe and profess and teach all that they feel like the Holy Spirit is telling them personally. Why is it OK for a Protestant to believe as true everything they teach themselves but a Catholic can't believe everything The Church teaches them? Kind of sounds hypocritical to me.

I know, I know. One has to first discern WHICH church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Which one do you choose PW?

Mary

Apology accepted. I know I don't always get it right, but I had just read this the other day....

Not sure what to tell you about Protestants' profession of faith in terms of becoming a member of a church. Maybe some others could answer that? I would think that any very basic Protestant profession of faith would include the five solas in some form.

I don't see any one denomination as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Now don't get mad, I see the Bible as that. Hey, at least I'm consistent! You gotta give me credit for that.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Wow...such an articulate and well thought out response. You aren't even going to try and refute what I have written???

Really? I worship the cross? Where is your evidence of that?

Patient Mary

If you don't see it Mary, then I can't help you.
Go talk to a Monsignor or something.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

But this is the point!
Catholics are allowed to have their own doctrine and dogma.
We may not agree with it, but they're allowed, they have scripture to back up what they believe...
I don't agree with the scripture they use for purgatory,
And indulgences are a man-made idea...other than this they do have solid theology and we all believe in the basics.

I see her fighting too much instead of being able to fellowship and DISCUSS our differences.
Discussion should be possible.

I see you admit you are a catholic again.
I knew it anyway.
I don't have fellowship with catholics.
the differences are too great.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well then are not moving toward being one with God and His Son?

Is not Jesus the Word made flesh as per John 1:14? How is it we are to become like Him? Is it not by moving from death to Life? Will memorizing the Bible do it?
Perhaps what is needed to eat his flesh and drink his blood?


"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:53-54

If a person only eats his flesh without also drinking his blood, what will he have consumed? Is this not what the dye hard atheists does when he studies the Bible in order to use his knowledge of it to trip up supposed followers of Jesus? The difference between what such an atheist does and what the sincere believer does lies in the Holy Spirit directing the sincere believer. The Holy Spirit is the blood of Jesus... but perhaps you do not believe that... Is not the Life in the blood? There is the natural life of the body of flesh as opposed the real Life of the new man. The former has the red blood coursing through his veins. The latter has the Holy Spirit within him quickening the flesh [dead scripture] he has eaten [heard or read or studied].



Jesus on the cross was dead before he resurrected from the dead. Before their resurrection in a person by the quickening of the Holy Spirit the words of scripture he has consumed are likewise dead.

You understand this metaphorically.
God has shown you a deep way to understand something.

I do want to say that when God gives us personal revelation, it should be presented as such.
Some revelation is not for everyone,,,,not because it's wrong, but because they would t understand.
@Marymog and I are perfect examples of this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see you admit you are a catholic again.
I knew it anyway.
I don't have fellowship with catholics.
the differences are too great.

Fellowship,,,sharing with those of like mind.

All I have all around me are Catholics.
I used to be one many years ago.
Recently I taught kids there.
But I'm Protestant in theology...what to do?
I love everyone that loves Jesus even if we don't agree...as
Long as they have a Christianly behavior,

The cc has some doctrine we don't like,,,so?
Catholics are not to blame.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Fellowship,,,sharing with those of like mind.

All I have all around me are Catholics.
I used to be one many years ago.
Recently I taught kids there.
But I'm Protestant in theology...what to do?
I love everyone that loves Jesus even if we don't agree...as
Long as they have a Christianly behavior,

The cc has some doctrine we don't like,,,so?
Catholics are not to blame.

Are you in Rome, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

when in rome, do as the romans do
be catholic

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I was raised Catholic. The RCC history is a mess wrapped in an enigma. Mary, for instance, was only recognized as "immaculate" in 1854. Reading the bible was forbidden even into the 20th century. And the mass was said in Latin for at least a millenia where no one could understand the rituals.

Can you say...bizarre?!!

Are you a writer or something? "A mess wrapped in an enigma?"

I grew up in a predominately Catholic area, but my family weren't Christians. When I was young, the Mass was in Latin. I remember when they changed it. It was a big deal. I took Latin in high school, so I can recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Latin, but that's about it.

.