How does God lead?

[Nancy]

But... That would make the first part of what you said...and Dave [wrong].

Or do you think Paul was wrong to insinuate that there would rightfully be prophets in the church? Or do you think he only meant that the entire New Testament was only for that generation...and then all bets were off, church is over, go home?

I have never said that the role of "prophet" was done away with. What I was trying to get across is that there should be NO NEW revelation/foretelling things to come for the church! The role is no longer what it was, as we now have the complete written word of God. today their role is to edify, console, strengthen, and exhort (Acts 15:32: 1 Corinthians 14:3).

 

[farouk]

That Jesus Christ is come in the flesh does not mean that He had a carnal, fallen nature. Four scriptures in the New Testament show that He was, and is (Hebrews 13:8) without sin:

2 Corinthians 5:21

Hebrews 4:15

1 Peter 2:22

1 John 3:5.

John 1.14 also makes it clear that He became flesh while retaining complete Deity (and therefore the attributes of Deity).

 

[Dave L]

In the New Testament scriptures, regarding the Church.

Have you noticed how they dwindle as the scriptures develop. Paul leaving friends sick? Telling Timothy to use medicine? I think they were being withdrawn even before Revelation. We have the prayer of faith today, and faith that perceives the future, but today's "gifts" are clearly are not like the originals.

 

[Dave L]

Me!

The original gifts were not the same as today's Charismatic wannabe versions.

 

[Dave L]

Terrific. But that says nothing of the others included in God's many gifts and the multitudes involved in Him pouring out His spirit upon "all" flesh.

The Spirit is for all, you cannot be a believer apart from the Spirit. But some of the gifts found their replacement by scripture which is far more trustworthy.

 

[Dave L]

You consider the Azusa Street Revival to be a questionable sect?

Also Bethel Bible College in Kansas.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The original gifts were not the same as today's Charismatic wannabe versions.

You'll never know.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Spirit is for all, you cannot be a believer apart from the Spirit. But some of the gifts found their replacement by scripture which is far more trustworthy.

You can't prove that by scripture, unless you twist the author's meaning (like you are doing).

 

[Dave L]

You can't prove that by scripture, unless you twist the author's meaning (like you are doing).

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

You'll never know.

If you learn what scripture says about the original gifts, nobody has them today.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you learn what scripture says about the original gifts, nobody has them today.

If you had a spiritual gift yourself, you would not be saying that: methinks that you are simply jealous of those who have them.

 

[Dave L]

If you had a spiritual gift yourself, you would not be saying that: methinks that you are simply jealous of those who have them.

I was a Charismatic for years and know the difference. Scripture is reliable if we limit ourselves to it.

 

[justbyfaith]

The scriptures testify of Jesus. See John 5:39-40. The primary goal is a relationship with Him; and once you have that, the word only serves to edify what had already been given. The Bible is a foundation is what I am saying.

However, if what you say is true, then we can cut out of our Bibles such passages as 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 14; because they are no longer relevant.

 

[farouk]

Scripture is reliable if we limit ourselves to it.

Great sentiment! Rightly dividing the Word of truth is so important.

 

[ScottA]

I have never said that the role of "prophet" was done away with. What I was trying to get across is that there should be NO NEW revelation/foretelling things to come for the church! The role is no longer what it was, as we now have the complete written word of God. today their role is to edify, console, strengthen, and exhort (Acts 15:32: 1 Corinthians 14:3).

1 Corinthians 14:3 comes within the context of "order in the church." It is not a stand alone definition of prophecy, but does constitute evidence of prophecy for the entire church age. Therefore, it is wrong to say that the role of prophets has changed, but simply that it should be orderly.

And then there is the problem of stifling the Holy Spirit by interpreting the scriptures in such a way that puts limits on God. On the contrary, we should be living in that age and time where we "shall see greater things than" those things which were only shadows of things to come. Which speaks not only of those things written on tablets, but also in our hearts, which had not yet come during those times, but were reserved for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

But I would caution things both ways: 1) against false prophets, but 2) also that we not be closed to the warnings that those who witnessed Christ's first coming missed. By this I do not mean something new, but new understanding of things not before understood...which is to say, not before revealed. So...there is the crowd that will be looking for the bodily return of Jesus, looking "here" and "there", who will entirely miss what was foretold, read and heard but not understood, seen but not perceived. And there are also those who rightfully will "hear what the Spirit says to the churches", which were given, but without the detail of all generations. If it were not so, the office and gift of prophecy would have not continued, but was given for the entire age.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9) (KJV 1900)

I was responding to this, silly:

"But some of the gifts found their replacement by scripture which is far more trustworthy."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If you learn what scripture says about the original gifts, nobody has them today.

What do you see was different then?

 

[ScottA]

Have you noticed how they dwindle as the scriptures develop. Paul leaving friends sick? Telling Timothy to use medicine? I think they were being withdrawn even before Revelation. We have the prayer of faith today, and faith that perceives the future, but today's "gifts" are clearly are not like the originals.

No, the church age has seen more miracles than the apostles saw.

It is faith that has diminished, not gifts, and not miracles. Indeed, Paul even wrote of many returning to "the beggarly elements" after knowing God, but not fully receiving and embracing the Holy Spirit...for which I am now also warning you.

 

[Enoch111]

However, if what you say is true, then we can cut out of our Bibles such passages as 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 14; because they are no longer relevant.

1. Corinthians 12-14 is one unit. So chapter 13 must be included.

2. All the spiritual gifts are listed therein, as well as the regulation of the exercise of those gifts within the assembly.

3. The cessation of three of those gifts is clearly stated -- prophecies (supernatural), tongues (supernatural), and knowledge (supernatural).

4. The cessation of those gifts is tied into the completion of the Scriptures -- "when that which is complete is come".

5. John makes it clear at the end of Revelation that that book closes out genuine prophecies, therefore the gift of prophecy ceased at that point.

6. The only valid gifts from that point on are evangelists, pastors, and teachers (in connection with proclaiming the Word).

7. The Apostolic Fathers could have claimed to be prophets, but not one of them made such a claim.

8. Today's so-called *prophets* are bogus. They either reiterate what is already in Scripture, or concoct fantasies for the gullible.

 

[ScottA]

The Spirit is for all, you cannot be a believer apart from the Spirit. But some of the gifts found their replacement by scripture which is far more trustworthy.

That is backwards.

"My words are spirit" according to Christ. Returning, therefore, to the written word after receiving Him of whom the promises were written is akin to Israel preferring the law over Christ. What you are doing, is the very thing the Pharisees did.

But I have warned you quite enough. Pray that the Lord has more grace in this matter than He did with Israel.