How does God lead?

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ScottA

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@Dave L

Dave,

You and I are not debating here. I am speaking to you as a brother...by the Holy Spirit. But you yourself have established that your position is based upon the book of Revelation, which places you under the curse therein for adding a limit that is not listed there. This is me extending John's warning.

As for a third means... Hello! - What do you call God pouring out His spirit "upon all flesh?"
 
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Dave L

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@Dave L

Dave,

You and I are not debating here. I am speaking to you as a brother...by the Holy Spirit. But you yourself have established that your position is based upon the book of Revelation, which places you under the curse therein for adding a limit that is not listed there. This is me extending John's warning.

As for a third means... Hello! - What do you call God pouring out His spirit "upon all flesh?"
My position is based on Acts and I Corinthians mainly. Revelation marks the end of the charismatic gifts according to Paul.
 

ScottA

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My position is based on Acts and I Corinthians mainly. Revelation marks the end of the charismatic gifts according to Paul.
You are going in circles, wavering.

There is no "end" stated of the outpouring of the spirit of God upon all flesh (except when the door of the bridegroom is closed). Not by Paul, not by John, and not in the scriptures. You are adding it and cannot quote any passage of it.
 
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Dave L

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You are going in circles, wavering.

There is no "end" stated of the outpouring of the spirit of God upon all flesh (except when the door of the bridegroom is closed). Not by Paul, not by John, and not in the scriptures. You are adding it and cannot quote any passage of it.
Today every believer has the baptism in the Holy Spirit. But none have the charismatic gifts.
 

Nancy

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If we don't know WHO the Antichrist actually is, we may inadvertently take His mark to buy and sell.

We know His voice and will not follow another! Here is an excerpt with just a few things to look for in the capitol A-Antichrist, according to the bible :
The Characteristics of the Anti-Christ

Paul spoke of one man as being the man of lawlessness (2 Thes 2:3-4). Since we know the difference between the many anti-Christs and the Anti-Christ, let’s look at Scripture to identify ten characteristics of the Anti-Christ. Some theologians say that there are up to 37 characteristics of the Anti-Christ’s so we know that there are more than ten but we will only look at the most obvious of these ten, although you may think of different ones other than those mentioned here.

He Will Blaspheme God
Many of these same characteristics of the one Anti-Christ are also held by the many anti-Christ’s. One of the greatest of these characteristics is that he will blaspheme the holy name of God. In Revelation 13:6 it says, “And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.” Many who are unbelievers blaspheme God too when they use God’s name as a swear word. This includes the vain use of Jesus’ name as it is written in Exodus 20:7 (and several other places), “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.” In fact Jesus warned that every idle word that men and women speak they will have to give an account for in the Day of Judgment. Let that sink in.every idle word! That includes every word that is used with God’s name in useless, vain or even casual speaking like “Oh my God!”

He Claims to be God and is Worshiped
A strong characteristic is that the Anti-Christ will seek to be worshpped like God is as Paul writes, “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God“ (2 Thes 2:3-4). This Anti-Christ is identified as the “man of lawlessness” and will not appear until the “rebellion” occurs (Rev 17). This man is supposed to come to power during the Tribulation and he will set in the temple of God to proclaim himself as God.

He Will Display Miraculous Powers
Paul knew that this man of lawlessness would dazzle those who are deceived and that is why many will worship him. In 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 Paul writes that “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” The sad fact is that people will be so far removed from knowing Jesus Christ that they won’t recognize the true God from the false one. These powers are also mentioned in Revelation 13:13 as he “performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven, to the earth in full view of the people.” The difference is Jesus never performed miracles to draw attention to Himself but to glorify God. The Anti-Christ will try and draw glory to himself with miracles (John 4:48).

The Anti-Christ Comes Back to Life
Just like Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected, the Anti-Christ will recover from what was considered a mortal wound. After this happened he “ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived“ (Rev 13:14). What a feat that will cause many to be motivated by the sight of this “fatal wound [that] had been healed“; so much so that many will worship him (Rev 13:12). This is imitating Jesus Christ again for even the disciple Thomas doubted that Jesus could recover from the death at His crucifixion but when he saw the resurrected Christ he confirmed that Jesus was Lord and God (John 20:28).

The Anti-Christ Rules in Full Authority
The Anti-Christ, again mimicking Jesus sovereignty, will rule for 42 months over the earth. For three and a half years he “was given authority to continue [literally “make war”] for forty-two months” (Rev 13:5). In fact the Anti-Christ “was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation“ (Rev 13:7). Christians know who actually reigns supreme for Jesus is Lord of all and has been given all authority in heaven and on earth. The Anti-Christ thinks he has power but he is given only as much power as God allows him to have. All this mans power is within the sovereign plan of God as God can even use evil for good.

The Anti-Christ Will Control the World’s Economy
Whoever rules the world’s goods rules the unsaved world. This man will have “forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name“ (Rev 13:16-17). When people start getting hungry, they will do almost anything to keep from starving. Even submit to an ungodly ruler. He causes everyone to receive a mark so that they can’t even buy food or any goods at all unless they have his mark upon them. This is also mimicking the sovereign God who gives to all, great and small, the sustenance to survive. The Anti-Christ makes everyone receive his mark but this mark comes with a great price.

The Anti-Christ Desecrates God’s Temple
Daniel 11:31 mentions this abomination of desolation as his “armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.” The “daily sacrifice is abolished“ (Dan 12:11). He can not be trusted because “He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue. Then an overwhelming army will be swept away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed. After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power. When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses-but only for a time“ (Dan 11:21-24). He is a liar and a thief of thieves. He makes an agreement and promises peace but then breaks his promise and deceives many.

Jesus spoke about this saying, “Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place’ (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not to back to get his clothes. “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath, For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no nor ever shall be“ (Matt 24:15-21)...


Read more: Ten Characteristics of the Anti-Christ According to the Bible
 

justbyfaith

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But, all the charismatic gifts expired with the apostles. They only came in the two outpourings or though an apostle's hands. So what you are saying has no basis.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Hebrews 13:8 declares that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.
 
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Dave L

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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Hebrews 13:8 declares that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.
He is, but where do you see the gifts before Pentecost, and after the first century? Questionable sects excluded.
 
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Dave L

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That is a contradiction in terms...and apparently something you just made up.

The gifts of the Spirit are many and to the whole body, not just those living among the apostles.
Only few spoke in tongues in Acts.
 

Nancy

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I can't say as I agree :( I believe He gave us all the information as to who and what to look for...I do not believe modern day prophets should add anything to the Revelation of Jesus as it is complete. All is already revealed. "Revealed" information will not contradict what God has already revealed about Himself in the Bible. I see the prophets (true prophets) as edifying the Church "1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." and speaking Gods truth boldly.
So sorry for slapping this c/p on here, but my mind is pretty tired right now, lol. This lists 81 Antichrist references in scripture. There are many characteristics of this man of perdition in scripture.
81 Scripture References on the antichrist
 

1stCenturyLady

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So sorry for slapping this c/p on here, but my mind is pretty tired right now, lol. This lists 81 Antichrist references in scripture. There are many characteristics of this man of perdition in scripture.
81 Scripture References on the antichrist

That is a SDA publication you know. The Antichrist will not be a religious leader, but a political one. The false prophet will be religious.
 

justbyfaith

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That Jesus Christ is come in the flesh does not mean that He had a carnal, fallen nature. Four scriptures in the New Testament show that He was, and is (Hebrews 13:8) without sin:

2 Corinthians 5:21

Hebrews 4:15

1 Peter 2:22

1 John 3:5.
 

Nancy

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That is a SDA publication you know. The Antichrist will not be a religious leader, but a political one. The false prophet will be religious.
Now, this is another can of worms I will NOT get into discussion about on this forum...as yet because there is more study to be done on it! But...I am starting to think they might be one and the same. Possibly just one man coming, not two...like, not the Antichrist and his sidekick religious buddy. Waaaay too much to get into especially as I am pretty sure most on here would dis-agree with my new thoughts on the matter. As far as SDA, I don't agree with allot of what they might but, it doesn't seem to change the subject matter at hand :)
 

1stCenturyLady

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Now, this is another can of worms I will NOT get into discussion about on this forum...as yet because there is more study to be done on it! But...I am starting to think they might be one and the same. Possibly just one man coming, not two...like, not the Antichrist and his sidekick religious buddy. Waaaay too much to get into especially as I am pretty sure most on here would dis-agree with my new thoughts on the matter. As far as SDA, I don't agree with allot of what they might but, it doesn't seem to change the subject matter at hand :)

I'm not saying that the pope isn't the Antichrist, and not the false prophet, but I'm not going to go into tunnel vision mode like the SDA's are against the RCC. We also need peripheral vision, if you get my drift.
 
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Nancy

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I'm not saying that the pope isn't the Antichrist, and not the false prophet, but I'm not going to go into tunnel vision mode like the SDA's are against the RCC. We also need peripheral vision, if you get my drift.
"We also need peripheral vision, if you get my drift."
Indeed I do :)
 

ScottA

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I can't say as I agree :( I believe He gave us all the information as to who and what to look for...I do not believe modern day prophets should add anything to the Revelation of Jesus as it is complete. All is already revealed. "Revealed" information will not contradict what God has already revealed about Himself in the Bible. I see the prophets (true prophets) as edifying the Church "1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." and speaking Gods truth boldly.
But... That would make the first part of what you said...and Dave [wrong].

Or do you think Paul was wrong to insinuate that there would rightfully be prophets in the church? Or do you think he only meant that the entire New Testament was only for that generation...and then all bets were off, church is over, go home?