Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[justbyfaith]

that is your belief, but Christ plainly says otherwise @ Twice the Sons of Hell, etc

Please elaborate on what you mean by this. How is Christ saying otherwise (that the unforgiving servant is not an exception to the rule of Luke 7:36-50) with the doctrine of Twice the Sons of Hell? (also, can you please give reference to what you are referring to so that we can all see what you are saying more clearly?)

which is of course anyone but us, right, how could this possibly describe any of us, Doing God's Will?

We can only go by what we know. If we are deceived into believing something about God that isn't true, I believe that if we are sincerely seeking Him, He will send someone to us to share with us the truth of who He really and truly is (Jeremiah 29:13).

 

[amadeus]

IF is a pretty big word though i guess

Yes, to be sure. Some people came to God with a real desire to repent. When God blessed them for that they so often simply do not want to be required to do anything else... even if God requires it. of them. Obviously many people disagree with on that. A very big "IF"!

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree that the Holy Spirit makes the difference, but too many people do not understand or are unwilling to admit [as I see it] that it remain possible to quench the Holy Spirit in us. That is the will of man that remains and which we can choose to follow instead of following God. God has made it possible for us to do it right, but the choice to surrender to Him remains always ours until we have finished our course.

I believe that the tension between OSAS and free will is healthy.

My personal belief on the matter is that God makes the Arminianist eternally secure; because his belief in the possibility of losing his salvation acts as a safeguard against losing it. In Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), I see the fear of the LORD as being the safeguard against falling away from the one way and losing the one heart that is spoken of in that passage. The Arminianist has the fear of the LORD as a protection against the loophole that can be found in John 10:27-30...that a person can walk away from faith in Jesus...the fear of the LORD means that we shall not depart from Him...

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, to be sure. Some people came to God with a real desire to repent. When God blessed them for that they so often simply do not want to be required to do anything else... even if God requires it. of them. Obviously many people disagree with on that. A very big "IF"!

Repentance, to me, would mean that thereafter there would be a willingness to do anything that the Lord desired of them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Please elaborate on what you mean by this. How is Christ saying otherwise (that the unforgiving servant is not an exception to the rule of Luke 7:36-50) with the doctrine of Twice the Sons of Hell?

imo the passage is fairly self-explanatory, Matthew 23:15 Lexicon: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves., i guess prolly the difficulty is in associating where we supposedly got our "salvation" with "pharisees?"

Bc of course no one in here was ever recruited by an actual Pharisee right

(also, can you please give reference to what you are referring to so that we can all see what you are saying more clearly?)

a highlight/search of the relevant phrase would serve one better for that imo, but there it is anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

We can only go by what we know. If we are deceived into believing something about God that isn't true, I believe that if we are sincerely seeking Him, He will send someone to us to share with us the truth of who He really and truly is (Jeremiah 29:13).

once again however, IF becomes a very big word!

 

[bbyrd009]

Repentance, to me, would mean that thereafter there would be a willingness to do anything that the Lord desired of them.

see how quickly one might be led into penance there however?
i'm sure you don't believe that God wants penance, right
that is strictly for pagans, appeasing their god imo

 

[justbyfaith]

once again however, IF becomes a very big word!

Of course. I think that if someone is not seeking God, He is not required to be found of them according to the verse in question (Jeremiah 29:13).

 

[justbyfaith]

see how quickly one might be led into penance there however?
i'm sure you don't believe that God wants penance, right
that is strictly for pagans, appeasing their god imo

As a protestant I see a clear distinction/separation between repentance and penance.

 

[justbyfaith]

i guess prolly the difficulty is in associating where we supposedly got our "salvation" with "pharisees?"

Bc of course no one in here was ever recruited by an actual Pharisee right

Again we can only hope that we have received the true Lord when we got saved by Him. I tend to believe that those who are truly born again are not the religious type. Yes we go to church regularly and we read our Bibles; but I think that we tend to be more down to earth and rather than being sticklers for the law, we tend to seek to exemplify the fruit of the Spirit.

"By their fruits you shall know them."

This is how you distinguish those who are "Twice the sons of hell" from the genuine bona fide believers with a living and saving faith who are truly regenerated and renewed in the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

As a protestant I see a clear distinction/separation between repentance and penance.

see what you like i guess, personally i don't use that term, "repent" is an English term we get from Catholics

 

[justbyfaith]

see what you like i guess, personally i don't use that term, "repent" is an English term we get from Catholics

People tend to run away from that word. However, it has a place in our vocabulary and I believe it should be used more often in the preaching of the Lord's message. The initial reaction to our using it may be contrary; but I believe that the lasting effect of using that word to minister to someone will be good fruit in the person's life.

 

[bbyrd009]

Again we can only hope that we have received the true Lord when we got saved by Him.

wadr i would counsel accepting the reality that the exact opposite is more, much more likely to be true, in light of "I know that the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave, not sparing the flock," coupled with your preferred identifications of "church" and the meaning of "saved," neither of which are...my definitions, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

People tend to run away from that word. However, it has a place in our vocabulary and I believe it should be used more often in the preaching of the Lord's message. The initial reaction to our using it may be contrary; but I believe that the lasting effect of using that word to minister to someone will be good fruit in the person's life.

hey, Catholics also believe that, and imo thank God for ppl who disagree!
But i'll stick with rebound myself, for now anyway, as in trampoline
Strong's Greek: 3340. μετανοέω (metanoeó) -- to change one's mind or purpose

 

[bbyrd009]

"By their fruits you shall know them."

This is how you distinguish those who are "Twice the sons of hell" from the genuine bona fide believers with a living and saving faith who are truly regenerated and renewed in the Holy Spirit.

Of course a man can be saved merely by calling upon that name...of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

@justbyfaith you might respond to the implied dichotomy here

 

[justbyfaith]

re #375...

You see a problem between the statements given, as though they were self-contradictory? They are not. One merely needs to think of how these statements come together as one...that if anyone truly calls on the name of the Lord they will be saved unto the bearing of good fruit.

@justbyfaith you might respond to the implied dichotomy here

I thought that that was what I just did, in my response to you just above in this very post. It seems that you want to bring some sort of confusion by editing your post above and adding what is above in quotes so that it appears that I am responding to your question rather than the fact that I saw the implied dichotomy and responded to it in what I have posted in this post just above what is quoted in quotes.

 

[justbyfaith]

wadr i would counsel accepting the reality that the exact opposite is more, much more likely to be true, in light of "I know that the wolves will rush in as soon as I leave, not sparing the flock," coupled with your preferred identifications of "church" and the meaning of "saved," neither of which are...my definitions, wadr

Even though wolves came in, not sparing the flock, the words of the apostles were preserved for our consideration...and the apostles certainly weren't wolves-in-sheep's clothing...

Such statements as John 1:12 speak to me of the genuineness of the faith of anyone who has a testimony of having received Christ...it is a promise in scripture that tells me that if anyone receives Christ as Saviour and Lord, they have the power to become the sons of God...

And also that "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is true in their lives who have received Him...thus the invitation of Revelation 3:20 is presented to you...

 

[bbyrd009]

Even though wolves came in, not sparing the flock, the words of the apostles were preserved for our consideration...and the apostles certainly weren't wolves-in-sheep's clothing...

who is this "our" that you speak of though? The "our" that hears, or does not hear? Bc both obv have access to the same Book right

as to the rest, as long as the "ifs" and the "buts" are kept intact i have no objection, certainly;
i became involved here bc you omitted the ifs and the buts, iow
i can dig up a quote for that too if you like, and don't doubt that i do the same thing when it suits me too ok, not denying that

 

[justbyfaith]

who is this "our" that you speak of though? The "our" that hears, or does not hear? Bc both obv have access to the same Book right

as to the rest, as long as the "ifs" and the "buts" are kept intact i have no objection, certainly;
i became involved here bc you omitted the ifs and the buts, iow
i can dig up a quote for that too if you like, and don't doubt that i do the same thing when it suits me too ok, not denying that

Not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure what you are trying to say.

then maybe time for an interpreter, or at least a pause, brb in a couple hours or so