Why Baptize a Baby?

[BreadOfLife]

You don't "hear"....you're too ready to attack.
And I'm beginning to believe you really hate Protestants.

That's simply not true. I LOVE Protestants.
9 of my 12 siblings are Protestants.

YOU just don't like it when I expose YOU . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL
I'll have my computer and will be better able to type.

So, tomorrow - you will PROVE that Constantine "forced" people at the point of a sword to be baptized.
Can't WAIT to see THIS . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

That's simply not true. I LOVE Protestants.
9 of my 12 siblings are Protestants.

YOU just don't like it when I expose YOU . . .

Mmmmmm. No wonder you're so mad all the time.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You don't "hear"....you're too ready to attack.
And I'm beginning to believe you really hate Protestants.

I've reached that same conclusion. The constant attacks and arrogance... actions speak VERY loudly. Much more so that a typed comment of "I love Protestants".

 

[BreadOfLife]

Interpretation, everything has to be filtered through Catholic doctrine.

The only lesson you gave is to affirm more and more you are brainwashed by Catholicism.

Ummmmm, this has ZERO to do with the Catholic Church.
This has to do with linguistics and grammar.

"I will shed a tear when they tear down my old school."
SAME word - DIFFERENT meanings . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

So, tomorrow - you will PROVE that Constantine "forced" people at the point of a sword to be baptized.
Can't WAIT to see THIS . . .

At the point of a sword???
You're a funny man.
But, I don't post for you, but those that are reading along.

 

[CoreIssue]

Ummmmm, this has ZERO to do with the Catholic Church.
This has to do with linguistics and grammar.

"I will shed a tear when they tear down my old school."
SAME word - DIFFERENT meanings . . .

You're making a claim to the wrong guy. I know better.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've reached that same conclusion. The constant attacks and arrogance... actions speak VERY loudly. Much more so that a typed comment of "I love Protestants".

At first I believed @BreadOfLife was a very frustrated Catholic, and he might have reason to be since many don't even believe they're Christian.

But I see it goes beyond this. The posts are aggressive and hateful.

 

[brakelite]

Again, my ignorant friend - the Jesuits (Society of Jesus) are a PRIESTLY ORDER.
They are NOT some sort of "Level" of Catholicism that one aspires to.

I am fully aware of that. My comment stands.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

At first I believed @BreadOfLife was a very frustrated Catholic, and he might have reason to be since many don't even believe they're Christian.

But I see it goes beyond this. The posts are aggressive and hateful.

Agreed. That was my thought process /observation too, even after being civil and offering a hand.

 

[Frank Lee]

 

[Taken]

WHY do you keep RUNNING from the question?? Are you that ill-equipped to answer it??

Tell me HOW an 8-day-old Baby could be brought into the Covenant with God by his PARENTS making the decision FOR him - but a baby under the NEW Covenant CANNOT have his parents speak FOR him.

Can you answer that??

I have already answered you.
I could answer you AGAIN UMPTEEN times.

I can not UNDERSTAND IT "FOR YOU".

Babies NOT yet conceived,
Babies NOT yet born,
Babies NEWLY born,

DID NOT MAKE A COVENANT with God!!!!!!

It is not rocket science.....THE ADULTS Made their Covenant with God!

They promised to RAISE any baby they would have, in the WORD of God.

(Your parents having a Priest drip water on your head, was your parents PROMISING your catholic church, they would raise you, according to the Doctrine of the catholic church)

The Covenant men made WitH God, or your parents making a VOW to your church....is between ... men and God
between ... your parents and their church

It did not SAVE (soul) of any child, not in the OT, not in your church.

It did not QUICKEN (birth a new spirit) of any child, not in the OT, not in your church,

It was a Promise of the Parents to PREPARE the child......FOR THEM TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE of GODS WORD.

Babies, being RAISED in accordance with the Parents PROMISE, and the child died...THAT CHILD would be SAVED unto God.

Babies who lived and grew and aged WOULD have to make their OWN Decision to Commit to Belief in God........or NOT.

Some did, some didn't.

Those who DID believe, and REMAIN in belief to the end of their lives, became SAVED unto the Lord.

Those who DID NOT believe, and never came INTO Belief, were NOT Saved unto the Lord, at the end of their lives.

Under the NEW COVENANT, the Lord, who knows us before we were born, knows the Heart of a Baby, and takes unto Him, Babies that die.

Children who grow, and age, can DECIDE for themselves to Believe, Commit, Become Converted and Receive their Salvation and Quickening, BEFORE their natural life ends.

You have confusion because you are taught by your church a MIX of the OLD and NEW Coventant DULEY APPLIES.

The OLD Covenant APPLIED to Hebrews and Jews who continue UNDER the LAW. You are neither.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

And in the end - ALL evil is a REFUSAL TO SUBMIT to God.
ALL of it.

In the end - Satan refused to submit to Almighty God and THAT was his downfall.

It means Same Sex Attraction, Einstein.
THAT'S what we were discussing - and YOU condemned ALL of them to Hell. God doesn't . . .

I spoke of Homosexual; the very term should notify you that is a person WHO is beyond attraction and participates in HomoSEXuality.

While you focused on YOUR IDEA, and apparently so FAMILIAR and KNOWLEDGABLE with Same Sex Attraction that you felt comfortable with your expertise to call it by an acronym..."SSA".

As you attempted to disparage me with your snarky comment..... NO MATTER TO ME, since I am not so FAMILIAR and VESTED in being Knowledgable in that practice, LIKE YOU.

Effeminates and Those who lie with the same sex shall not enter the Kingdom of God.

I didn't reveal that Knowledge, the Lord did.
I didn't make that Truth, the Lord did.

I simply Trust the Lords Word is TRUE.

I did not Condemn anyone to Hell, as you falsely claimed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thanks for YOUR opinions - but you KNOW what they say about opinions . . . .

Uh huh.

And as you have shown with your own words, you do not know the difference between...

Born of Water and Born of the Holy Spirit.
AND
Being Baptized in Water and Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

No matter. The Lord provides Understanding, when the man has prepared himself to receive His Understanding.

Read and Study, and you might figure out how to become prepared.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Frank Lee]

We make our promises to God... Not to some man made denomination. We anointed and dedicated our God given children to God at birth. Not to some denomination, sect or group or priest, so called.

The covenant is between a believer and God not between a "believer" and their denomination.

I've attended these christening things, so called, and never help but getting a little queasy at the whole thing. Dedicating a child to God as Samuel's mother did is not to comparible to telling some denominational guru that you promise to raise the child per the dictates of the traditions, doctrines and dogma of the First church of whatever.

 

[Taken]

"Amen, amen, I say to you, unless a man is born of WATER AND SPRIT - he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven" (John 3:5).

Water AND Spirit.

Pay Attention dude....the highlight in John 3:5 is "BORN"....not "baptized" !! LOL

YOU

falsely preach a baptism of Spirit alone - but Jesus DIDN'T.

Oh good grief...John the Baptist taught Water Baptism, as a foreshadow to Christ Jesus' Holy Spirit Baptism!

Jesus did NOT Baptize with WATER!

Nor was anyone told to NOT Water BAPTIZE.

Nor does WATER BAPTISM SAVE a soul.

Nor does WATER BAPTISM QUICKEN a spirit.

WHY would it boggle your mind that God would use WATER for Baptism of the Holy Spirit - when HE said that it would be that way??

LOL, I am not the one in confusion...
LIKE YOU, not knowing the difference between a natural birth and a spiritual birth and Baptism with water and Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

What an appalling lack of faith you have . . .

You are entitled to Be ignorant and express your ignorant views.....Seriously, that is Scriptural....

No matter, I have the Lord to comfort me against thorns like you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Your post here has a lot to go through so I'll try to pull out the big points here. In the likely event I am misunderstanding something here, please let me know. I very much want to understand your perspective here.

- You differentiate between the "People of God" and the "Servants of God".
-- The People of God are those that grew up in a Christian environment and were welcomed in via water baptism. Each individual may or may not be saved eventually-- they need to become also Servants of God first to be saved.
-- The Servants of God are those that have accepted Christ and the Holy Ghost. They personally know God and serve Him better.
-- People whom are not Servants of God don't have the Holy Ghost, don't personally know God, and are lesser servants.

(Back to baptism specifically)
- Water baptism itself doesn't save. A baptized person can go astray.
- A child growing up in a practicing Christian home is very good thing and should be encouraged.
-- Being baptized makes a person part of the People of God. It serves no other purpose.
-- You want babies to be part of the People of God, so you baptize them.
-- But you still feel that a person raised in a Christian environment without baptism is a good thing.
-- You didn't speak to your thoughts as to a child that is baptized but then raised in a non-practicing home.

Ok... I'm sure I got part of that wrong somewhere, but am I at least on the right track?

Pretty much correct on all.

Oh I was Baptised but my mum and dad did not go to church but encourage it and believed in Jesus they had faith but were not Born Again my god father and mother did nothing but I went to Bible Study with a mate and his dad or sister would take us in my school days, so it had nothing to do with my mum or dad really but they gave there direction on what they thought about all such, I said once that I was thinking to become a Priest and my mum hated that idea totally, she said that they are all poofters and bastards getting about in dresses etc etc, so my elder brother and sister believe in Jesus but are not like me and my younger brother who bother to look into such things and are totally of faith of Jesus Christ.
Many of my cousins who went to church every week are not believers or have little faith in Jesus as for my children I do not force it down their neck but give of my hope and guidance because only Jesus will take root within them at there own pace, the seed is there but one must knock to get answers and hope the weeds of the world will not choke their faith, I can't do any more what I have done, the Holy spirit will come and convince one, but one has to be willing and open to it seeking and knocking or it will not come.

I was 36yo when I was Born Again so I was of faith but I did not truly have total faith in Jesus Christ and when it happened it was with a Bam ! it hit me, it just blew me away, I was at home by myself and had finished reading the Bible and wandering about and then Bam ! the lights when on I knew him ! fact is that he is the only one that is our Lord and Saviour he is the well spring that we must come to and nothing other, only in him have we got any hope as a people of God, not all have or will be born again but to have real faith in him one is worthy of him. but to be working against him such a one is condemned with Satan.

As for the water Baptised or of faith in Jesus Christ are not condemned but they may be on the wrong path and that's a problem to worry about, because they can be lead astray to easily by Satan's cunning. they can mistake worldly pursuits that are of mans works, like idolising Socialism or Jews and such babbling madness.

 

[Nancy]

Mmmmmm. No wonder you're so mad all the time.

Ahahaha!

 

[Marymog]

Correction: what I said was that I don't find history to be a good epistemological method for determining Truth. All history. Ain't nothing special about pre or post Reformation.

Because history is the imperfect recounting of imperfect events told by the imperfect victor. It has little to do with Truthfulness, and much to do with military/political/popularity might.

God is the Teacher. God testifies of Truth.

Hi Jane,

That makes no sense. You are suggesting that we NEVER use history to determine Truth? Do you believe the 27 books of the NT are the true books that God wants us to have? Do you know how you got the 27 books of the Bible you read? Who wrote the book of Acts?

Historically, Christians have been practicing infant baptism for 2,000 years. Over 1,500 years later the reformers came along and convinced some of their fellow Christians that infant baptism was not biblical. Wouldn’t the people who lived closer to the time of Christ know better than the reformers?

What you seem to be suggesting that for 1,500 years the “imperfect victor” convinced all Christians that infant baptism was biblical and the Reformers came galloping in on their white horses and saved us from the lies of The Church. Is that a fair assessment of what you are suggesting?

If God is the teacher of The Truth who is the student of The Truth? YOU? The leaders of the CC? Luther? Calvin? Who is this student you are speaking of??

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

On phone and cannot write too much.
We are NOT individually held responsible for Adam's sin.
We suffer from the consequences of his fall and the breaking of the Edenic Covenant as he represented all of mankind.

Romans 5 is referring to the change in our nature due to Adams fall,,,,it does not state we are personally responsible for his sin. This would not be justice from a just God.

If we were imputed his sin, any child that died would go to hell since he would not be born from above as in John 3.

Sorry, can't post scripture right now.

Ok....now you really have me confused.

We went from being imputed with Adams sin to being held responsible for Adams sin??? I never said suggested implied or thought we are responsible for Adams sin. I said we are imputed with Adams sin, just like scripture says.

Who taught you that Romans 5 is referring to the change of our nature due to Adams fall? Or are you self taught?

How are you conflating John 3 with Romans 5? I don’t see the connection?

Curious Mary