Paul And The Law

[mjrhealth]

How about out of the fact that God demands obedience?

God has never demanded anything of any one it is the religious that do and change change who He is, a loving God into a terryfying sadistic earthly father.. like this

Rom_1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom_1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[brakelite]

God producing the fruit of righteousness in a believer comes through sanctification in his daily walk. The believer is already in the kingdom because of his belief in the death, burial and resurrection Jhn 3:3. Now the believer has a relationship with God, which is the sanctification process.

You can't force your way into the kingdom by being "good". It's only through belief in His resurrection that all sin is forgiven. Many hear the good news, but ol men are stubborn, they do not receive.

Luke 16:16 "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

Rom 6:22-23 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 15:16-17 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

So I must assume that this post is offered because somehow it contradicts what I have been saying...yet I agree with every word spoken above. Fruits of righteousness...obedience...comes through sanctification. Absolutely. Those are the works we do as a result of God's workmanship in us. Yes? Are you aware that we are going to be judged by those works? That they and they alone are the evidence of our faith? So we are saved/justified by faith, but judged by our works. We are not judged by our faith. So while faith is essential to being saved, works are equally essential for without them we are effectually saying, "I don't have faith".

 

[GodsGrace]

We are required to do God's will to grow and mature,, not to save ourselves

Oh. Is growing and maturing what Jesus was talking about when He said:

John 5:24-29
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's ok, no believers do things for the kingdom out of thankfulness to the cross, not to save ourselves.
So many are trying to force their way into the kingdom throig religion and their own effort, not knowing Jesus is the only gate to salvation. You're never really to far gone to believe though,

Tell me, WHO is walking down the wide path?
Jesus said THE LAWLESS will be banished from Him.
Mathew 7:23
Who are the lawless if not those who do not obey the law?
What does lawless mean to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

So I must assume that this post is offered because somehow it contradicts what I have been saying...yet I agree with every word spoken above. Fruits of righteousness...obedience...comes through sanctification. Absolutely. Those are the works we do as a result of God's workmanship in us. Yes? Are you aware that we are going to be judged by those works? That they and they alone are the evidence of our faith? So we are saved/justified by faith, but judged by our works. We are not judged by our faith. So while faith is essential to being saved, works are equally essential for without them we are effectually saying, "I don't have faith".

Very well said...

 

[GodsGrace]

That's ok, no believers do things for the kingdom out of thankfulness to the cross, not to save ourselves.
So many are trying to force their way into the kingdom throig religion and their own effort, not knowing Jesus is the only gate to salvation. You're never really to far gone to believe though,

No effort is required on our part?
What does sanctification mean?

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Does "without which no one WILL SEE THE LORD" sound like a chastisement to you? Please explain this verse.

 

[GodsGrace]

God has never demanded anything of any one it is the religious that do and change change who He is, a loving God into a terryfying sadistic earthly father.. like this

Rom_1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom_1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I hope you realize the verses you've posted have nothing to do with your statement.
Maybe you'd care to exegete them?

And BTW, when GOD says something...it's not a request.
Seems like mature Christians should understand this.

 

[Heb 13:8]

So I must assume that this post is offered because somehow it contradicts what I have been saying...yet I agree with every word spoken above. Fruits of righteousness...obedience...comes through sanctification. Absolutely. Those are the works we do as a result of God's workmanship in us. Yes? Are you aware that we are going to be judged by those works? That they and they alone are the evidence of our faith? So we are saved/justified by faith, but judged by our works. We are not judged by our faith. So while faith is essential to being saved, works are equally essential for without them we are effectually saying, "I don't have faith".

Judged by works as to receive crowns and rewards at the Bema, not to save ourselves through non-osas

 

[Heb 13:8]

Oh. Is growing and maturing what Jesus was talking about when He said:

John 5:24-29
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment.

and many will not believe GG, they hear the good news but do not receive it. this is referring to salvation only. salvation is a one time event, sanctification is the life long process

Rom 10 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Tell me, WHO is walking down the wide path?
Jesus said THE LAWLESS will be banished from Him.
Mathew 7:23
Who are the lawless if not those who do not obey the law?
What does lawless mean to you?

GG, read Matt 7:22-23 (verse 15-23 in context). it is referring to those who work their way into heaven, who are not trusting on the finished work. and we all know what the subtitle is to Ezek 13

Ezek 13

“ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

Matt 7

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No effort is required on our part?
What does sanctification mean?

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Hebrews 12:14
14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Does "without which no one WILL SEE THE LORD" sound like a chastisement to you? Please explain this verse.

and we are sanctified through the finished work of the cross only, not to save ourselves through non-osas

 

[mjrhealth]

And BTW, when GOD says something...it's not a request.
Seems like mature Christians should understand this.

its funny you knoew. talking to a friend of mine, who mentioned how Christ told her that when He comes back many will run from Him.. like I keep saying so many are afraid of Jesus the one who has come to save them because of all the religion in this world,. No, God has "never" demanded anything of anyone that is teh religious emposing there ideologies on people, there rules there ideas driving our Lords sheep and lambs away from Him ,terrifying the people so they wont go near Him, remember this bit,

Mar_10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

but just like the disciples before they really discovered who Jesus was

Mar 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

still today the religious wont let those precious lambs near Him and they will all answer for it,

you speak of Gods grace but you have no understanding

 

[GodsGrace]

its funny you knoew. talking to a friend of mine, who mentioned how Christ told her that when He comes back many will run from Him.. like I keep saying so many are afraid of Jesus the one who has come to save them because of all the religion in this world,. No, God has "never" demanded anything of anyone that is teh religious emposing there ideologies on people, there rules there ideas driving our Lords sheep and lambs away from Him ,terrifying the people so they wont go near Him, remember this bit,

Mar_10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

but just like the disciples before they really discovered who Jesus was

Mar 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

still today the religious wont let those precious lambs near Him and they will all answer for it,

you speak of Gods grace but you have no understanding

It's OK,,,,apparently YOU understand everything.
And you're too hung up on religion.

 

[mjrhealth]

It's OK,,,,apparently YOU understand everything.
And you're too hung up on religion.

It's OK,,,,apparently YOU understand everything.
And you're too hung up on religion.

God never made religion , men did, just like the tower of bable, so many confused voices,,,,,

 

[brakelite]

Judged by works as to receive crowns and rewards at the Bema, not to save ourselves through non-osas

I think you, if you really wanted to, could prove to yourself that we are judged by our works as to whether we are accepted into the kingdom of God. Not to be saved, but as proof we are saved. Go on, do a study on judgement. And by the way, prophetically speaking, judgement comes before the second coming. Daniel shows that.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I think you, if you really wanted to, could prove to yourself that we are judged by our works as to whether we are accepted into the kingdom of God. Not to be saved, but as proof we are saved. Go on, do a study on judgement. And by the way, prophetically speaking, judgement comes before the second coming. Daniel shows that.

Being accepted into the Kingdom is only through belief and confession, not works Matt 7:22-23. What makes you think believers are not producing good fruit,, here on the internet?

 

[brakelite]

What makes you think believers are not producing good fruit,, here on the internet?

Are you really a believer? You don't have the faith to believe God can keep you from sinning, how could anyone think you to be a believer? What good fit is there in teaching people that God's own laws are no longer laws, but suggestions?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Are you really a believer? You don't have the faith to believe God can keep you from sinning, how could anyone think you to be a believer? What good fit is there in teaching people that God's own laws are no longer laws, but suggestions?

I am, I came to faith in Jesus Christ in 2005. I do have the faith to believe God can keep me from sinning, I just don't mix it in with salvation which was a one time event. Sanctification is the life long process

 

[brakelite]

I am, I came to faith in Jesus Christ in 2005. I do have the faith to believe God can keep me from sinning, I just don't mix it in with salvation which was a one time event. Sanctification is the life long process

Then thus far you and I are in full agreement. How cool is that! And guess what. Official seventh day Adventist belief says exactly the same thing!
Now for the next step. Do you think that sanctification recreates a person in such a way he can live in harmony with the ten C commandments?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Then thus far you and I are in full agreement. How cool is that! And guess what. Official seventh day Adventist belief says exactly the same thing!
Now for the next step. Do you think that sanctification recreates a person in such a way he can live in harmony with the ten C commandments?

Contradiction?, or maybe.... youtube(dot)com/watch?v=O9PiAfb9PNM

James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Gal 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.