The Criteria of Antichrist.

[CoreIssue]

For what reasons did the reformers risk life and limb, (literally), in their damning accusations against the church which raised them? Nearly all the reformers were priests, with no intentions of forming new churches, but reforming the one they loved and held dear. Yet here they are accusing the very institution which educated and confirmed them in their faith, of being the dreaded Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Why?

Was it revenge for being excommunicated? No, they were excommunicated for the most part because of the accusations. Was it the worst insult they could come up with because of a personal grudge? Hardly. Or perhaps, as this author believes and will expand on later, was it because they were serious students of the Bible and saw unmistakably the fulfilment of the many prophecies regarding Antichrist being played out perfectly before their very eyes?

Core Issue would have it that they were ignorant of scripture, and that today we have more resources to study. Luther ignorant? He was a professor at the Wittenburg university, one of the more elite universities in Germany. Luther was much sought after as a teacher, being familiar with Greek and Hebrew, and eventually translating the Latin Bible into German, for which he was eventually tried. Mmmm. Writing off the reformation as a mistake and charging the reformers with being simple minded bigots with an axe to grind sounds like the kind of thing a Jesuit would be claiming in order to defend Catholicism. It is that kind of muddled thinking that is giving impetus to the ecumenical movement, and blinding people to the dangers that Rome presents to the world. It is typical dispensationalist thinking. Discarding the rise of the grossest Christian counterfeit in history as irrelevant to church history, and casting aside the reformation as a mistake, as if God had no hand in it, and didn't consider any of the aforementioned worthy of mentioning in prophecy.
Isa 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

You need to seriously stop your attempts at psychological manipulation.

For those of us who have experience with such things you are an open book in this approach.

This is the old kill the messenger when you can't deal with the message approach.

If you have proofs about what other say, give them. If they do not accept your efforts, move on.

Who are you trying to reassure by all of your constant declarations about yourself? Them or yourself?

 

[brakelite]

Neither @CoreIssue or @mjrhealth have answered my question. What means this?
KJV Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[CoreIssue]

Neither @CoreIssue or @mjrhealth have answered my question. What means this?
KJV Romans 3
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Yet again you're trying to spend things to your own meaning.

It is not talking about Mosaic law.

Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith inh]">[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i]">[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[brakelite]

Yet again you're trying to spend things to your own meaning.

It is not talking about Mosaic law.

Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith inh]">[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i]">[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Precisely. So what is your issue with me then if you agree with all the above?

 

[CoreIssue]

Precisely. So what is your issue with me then if you agree with all the above?

More games.

 

[mjrhealth]

Precisely. So what is your issue with me then if you agree with all the above?

You are not the issue, you have made your choice, the issue is all those whom you cause to stumble and to whom you will have to answer for, not one of them will slip Gods mind.

 

[brakelite]

You are not the issue, you have made your choice, the issue is all those whom you cause to stumble and to whom you will have to answer for, not one of them will slip Gods mind.

Interesting. I know you don't hold the Bible in much esteem, seeing you think your spirit is more reliable, but I will quote Jesus anyway. I don't recollect Him ever saying that those who uphold the law and encourage obedience to His commandments through faith in His power are in any way under condemnation, nor do they bring others under the same. But what Jesus did say was...
KJV Matthew 5
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[mjrhealth]

Interesting. I know you don't hold the Bible in much esteem, seeing you think your spirit is more reliable, but I will quote Jesus anyway. I don't recollect Him ever saying that those who uphold the law and encourage obedience to His commandments through faith in His power are in any way under condemnation, nor do they bring others under the same. But what Jesus did say was...
KJV Matthew 5
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yep murder, which is what you do when you impose the law upon people, full well knowing that they cant keep it thereby condemning them to death by their sin through the law, Seems murder is not an issue with you.

 

[brakelite]

Yep murder, which is what you do when you impose the law upon people, full well knowing that they cant keep it thereby condemning them to death by their sin through the law, Seems murder is not an issue with you.

I am condemning people to death because they sin?
People can't obey God's commandments??? Didn't Jesus come for the express purpose of dealing with the sin problem? Isn't that why we call people to repent and come to their only Saviour that they might be empowered to live in victory over sin? What kind of a gospel are you preaching that doesn't include a life of obedience?

 

[quietthinker]

Show me where I am opposed to the law, they are a good thing they show the sinner what sin is, this bit

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

so which is it, are you a sinner under the law, which is not yours, or are you the righteousness of Christ by His works,

The fancy footwork you engage mjrhealth, avoids answering the questions asked. You bend your energy to justify yourself and your lawless attitude.
You want scriptures...what for? I doubt that even if I gave a truck load of them it wouldn't make any difference.
Brakelite's topic here is right on que. Those interested will recognise its value.

 

[brakelite]

Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their reviling.

They who know righteousness are those in whose heart is God’s law, thus the law of God is the righteousness of God. We can attain to that righteousness, but only by faith. It is a gift.

Ro 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

 

[mjrhealth]

@brakelite @quietthinker

are you sinners under the law, or the righteousness of Christ by grace through faith, you cant be both,,all you seek to do is justify your religion as BOL does his.

 

[brakelite]

brakelite said:
Interesting. I know you don't hold the Bible in much esteem, seeing you think your spirit is more reliable, but I will quote Jesus anyway. I don't recollect Him ever saying that those who uphold the law and encourage obedience to His commandments through faith in His power are in any way under condemnation, nor do they bring others under the same. But what Jesus did say was...
KJV Matthew 5
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

mjrhealth said:
Yep murder, which is what you do when you impose the law upon people, full well knowing that they cant keep it thereby condemning them to death by their sin through the law, Seems murder is not an issue with you.

Jesus said he who loves Me will keep My commandments. John said the same thing. So did Paul. And James. Your response above is absurd...I can't impose any laws upon anyone...I have no authority to do that. I recommend to sinners that they come to Jesus...He will give them all they need to become obedient children of their heavenly Father.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children.....
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

[brakelite]

Sin is the transgression of the law, and it is also unrighteousness, therefore sin and unrighteousness are the same. So if unrighteousness is transgression against the law, surely righteousness must be obedience to the law. Now we need to know “what law”?

It is the law which says “thou shalt not covet”. because Paul tells us that is was that law which convinced him of sin. (Romans 7:7.) The law of ten commandments then, is the measure of the righteousness of God. Since it is the law of God, and is righteousness, it must be the righteousness of God. In fact, there really is no other righteousness. It is a written manifestation of the character and nature of God. God is also love, and Paul tells us that love is the fulfilling of the law. Thus if we are to seek God’s righteousness, then we are to seek obedience, through faith, to God’s law, by love. Thus rather than doing away with the law, (how can it be possible to do away with God’s righteousness?) through love we establish the law. All by faith. Not our righteousness, but God’s.

So Solomon was perfectly correct and agreed with the text of Matt 6:33 when he said:

“Let us hear the conclusion to the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.” Eccl 12:13, 14.

 

[brakelite]

@mjrhealth Is there a chance you might actually answer our posts rather than just doubling down on your views? What means this:
that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Can the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in anyone who does not walk in obedience to that same law?

 

[brakelite]

Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil’” [Matthew 5:17]…The ritual or ceremonial law, delivered by Moses to the children of Israel, containing all the injunctions and ordinances which related to the old sacrifices and service of the temple, our Lord indeed did come to destroy, to dissolve, and utterly abolish. To this bear all the Apostles witness; not only Barnabas and Paul, who vehemently withstood those who taught that Christians ought ‘to keep the law of Moses;’ (Acts 15:5 not only St. Peter, who termed the insisting on this, on the observance of the ritual law, a ‘tempting God,’ and ‘putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers,’ saith he, ‘nor we, were able to bear;’ but all the Apostles, elders, and brethren, being assembled with one accord, (Acts 15:22,) declared, that to command them to keep this law, was to ‘subvert their souls;’ and that ‘it seemed good to the Holy Ghost’ and to them, to lay no such burden upon them. (Acts 15:28.) This ‘hand-writing of ordinances’ our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross.

But the moral law, contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken, which stands fast as the faithful witness in heaven. The moral stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law, which was only designed for a temporary restraint upon a disobedient and stiff-necked people; whereas this was from the beginning of the world, being ‘written not on tables of stone,’ but on the hearts of all the children of men, when they came out of the hands of the Creator. And, however the letters once wrote by the finger of God are now in a great measure defaced by sin, yet can they not wholly be blotted out, while we have any consciousness of good and evil. Every part of this law must remain in force, upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other. John Wesley, On the Sermon on the Mount, Discourse 6, Sermons on Several Occasions (1810), pp. 75-76.

Now men may cavil as much as they like about other parts of the Bible, but I have never met an honest man that found fault with the Ten Commandments. Infidels may mock the Lawgiver and reject Him who has delivered us from the curse of the law, but they can’t help admitting that the commandments are right…they are for all nations, and will remain the commandments of God through the centuries… The people must be made to understand that the Ten Commandments are still binding, and that there is a penalty attached to their violation…Jesus never condemned the law and the prophets, but He did condemn those who did not obey them [see Matthew 5:17-19]. Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting , pp. 11, 16, 15.

 

[mjrhealth]

You dont want an answer you want me to agree with a lie, and that i will not do, stand on the side of the devil just so you can justfy your religion.

And how is it that you can change the righteousness of Christ into some thing that you must do, it is not earned it is not paid for, He paid the price so that all who are in Him will stand before God clothed in His righteousness, yet here you wont answer, you say that you cant earn your righteousness by the law, yet you sit here and demanding we keep the law, it is only the devil that demands anything of anyone..

As it is written in that bible you keep pushing

Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

if the Jews are supposed to be dead to the law so they can be married to Christ ,why is it you choose to be alive to the Law, dont you love your Husband your betrothed Christ that you must have another woman to follow after. There is a reason why mens churches are called the harlot, and yours and the rc is all the evidence one needs.

You need the law to justify your flesh and so you will remain in your sin through your breaking the law, God has no intention of helping you with that, Christ did all that so you wont have to, you are just making a mockery of all His good works..

 

[Phoneman777]

The Roman Catholic system does not fulfill the demands of who the AC is.

It is precisely what the Bible calls Antichrist.

The AC is not a system, he is a man, one individual.

It cannot be a single individual because:

• it was predicted to rise among the ten barbarian nations which arose out of pagan Rome
• it was to continue from that time - 6th century A.D. - all the way to the return of Christ.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a single man to fulfill this.

The AC does not try to usurp Christ's position as head of the church. He cannot because he is not revealed until the church is raptured.

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (two simultaneous events on the same day), That ye be not soon shaken in mind...as that the day of Christ is at hand...Let no man deceive you by any means (as you have been by Jesuit Futurism): for [that day shall not come] (the translators were in full agreement that the Greek referred to a singular day), except there come a falling away ("apostasia" - referring to the great papal apostasy, NOT some nonsense about "the church falling away from the Earth in a secret rapture") first, and that man of sin (papal Antichrist) be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

The temple will be in Jerusalem, which is Israel, not church.

Even if a temple is built in Jerusalem, it is inconsequential. The "Temple of God" (Gr. "NAOS") is Paul's way of referencing the Church, over which the papacy has set itself up, and YOU are teaching Jesuit lies by which you've been deceived because "Israel" in Scripture has nothing to do with those who occupy the ancient land of Israel today..."Israel" is defined in Scripture as those who "are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed..."

He is the little horn that rises out of the beast of Greece.

Once again, you're just parroting popular nonsense. The verse in Daniel 8, "out of one of them came forth another little horn", Hebrew pronoun gender agreement absolutely disqualifies the "four horns" as the noun to which "them" refers and demands it refers to the only other noun: "the four winds" meaning "four directions" as in a compass. The equivalent rendering of what you and the rest of Jesuit Futurist Christianity claim would be, "Know that the Lord, SHE is our God."

Greece, which is part of the 10 toe nations Roman Empire collapsed into. The 10 toes which now form the EU, which no one can accuse of being Christian. The head of the beast that was fatally wounded and comes back to life.

Seriously, what prophetic time line did you makeup to establish this? There's nothing in Scripture so support such a timeline.

Compare what the Bible says about the AC to what history teaches about Alexander the great. No, Alexander the great will not be resurrected, but the demon in him has returned.

The Greek Empire has fallen off the stage of history by the time the papal Antichrist arose. The only thing the Antichrist has to do with Greece is that it incorporates the philosophies of Greece, as it does that of Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Rome, according to the description of the first Beast of Revelation 13.

Calvin lacks credibility due to his beliefs and salvation. Other reformers are a mixed bag. But we have to remember that although many of them broke with Catholic teaching they wanted Catholicism to men in return as the only church on earth.

While it is true there were differences regarding various aspects of Christian belief during the Protestant Reformation (unavoidable after 1,000 years darkness due to the papacy withholding the Bible, it is with absolute stunning unanimity with which the Reformers proved from Scripture the papal Antichrist - proof with which you are so obviously unfamiliar, having allowed yourself to drink nothing but Jesuit Koolaid.

A

lso to be remembered is that your SDA beliefs, largely from the false prophet Ellen G White, teach a lot of things that cannot be found in the Bible.

Now you resort to lying. I have never seen Brakelite attempt to establish any of his spiritual propositions with anything other than Scripture.

But the Vatican is the perfect place for him to be false prophet. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC is pagan Romanism disguise as Christian. It is also the harlot drenched in the blood of the saints is slaughtered.

The "False Prophet" and the "Beast" Antichrist are TWO DIFFERENT things, in Revelation.

Rome was also the capital of the Roman Empire and will be the capital of the restored Roman Empire under the AC. It will return to Roman paganism and emperor worship. Failure to worship the AC will be a death penalty.

There will never be another "Roman Empire" - what's coming is a New World Order where the papacy will be at the head.

 

[brakelite]

Okay my friends and fellow inquirers after truth, time to get back to the main topic...
Allow me to quote something I posted a few pages back before we got distracted...something I think needs to be refreshed...

The sea-beast or antichrist.

1. Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
2. Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
3. Ten diadems. (13:1)
4. Ten horns (13:1above description )
5. Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
6. 42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
7. Was slain (13:3)
8. Resurrected (13:3)
9. Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

The above description is found in Revelation 13...and as you can see so very clearly, this Antichrist beast (remember beasts in prophecy are kingdoms, not individuals) counterfeits the true Christ in so many ways...as can be seen here....

Jesus Christ

1. Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
2. Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
3. Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
4. Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
5. Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
6. 42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
7. Was slain (Rev 5:6)
8. Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
9. Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

Thus the Antichrist is not an entity that simply opposes Christ and/or Christianity as many claim, but in fact replaces Christ as a usurper, a false Christ, a counterfeit Christian system that purports to represent Christ, just as Paul described when he referred to the man of sin as the "son of perdition", which name is uniquely given to Judas...who didn't oppose Jesus, but betrayed Him with a pretense of faithfulness and loyalty.
The question must therefore be asked, considering that this thread is an expose of the Catholic Church as the Antichrist, does the RCC meet all the criteria of the above description of the sea beats of Revelation 13:1-3?
The final 2 criteria I promised will be covered as I go through the above 9 points. And of course these 9 points simply add further evidence and affirmation that the charge against the Papacy by the reformers, and a few of todays churches with the courage to proclaim the truth, is founded on good sound Biblical exegesis.

 

[Dave L]

What, may I ask do you see for the Christian Dave, when all is said and done? Will we have glorified bodies in Heaven? Spirits, like the wind on the New Earth? These are just a very few areas that are blurry to me and, I know everybody has some kind of stance here, lol. Will spirit just recognize spirit in Heaven? Like, will I recognize my saved loved ones who have passed on? Just some thoughts ♥

“Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him because we will see Him as He is.” (1 John 3:2) (HCSB)

Here's something to delight in. Jesus is God and we have his imputed righteousness (Romans 5:19). So God sees us as though we are as righteous as God even though we are not. If we were as righteous as humanly possible, we would still have only finite righteousness. But we have God's infinite righteousness instead. And because of Christ, we will enjoy the supreme blessing forever that only God deserves.