Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

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justbyfaith

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I do not believe that the Father is the Son; although I know that the Bible teaches that the Son is the Father in Isaiah 9:6.

Try and think of how this applies to everything in question.

How hard is it for you to understand that the one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) became a Man? Not a 2nd God, and not 1/3 of God, but God.
 

justbyfaith

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Dude, do you even believe in the Trinity. Triune means three-in-one.

I gave the answer that is in line with that doctrine, according to the understanding that the Lord has given me and not according to a dogmatic statement. But evidently you don't even believe in the Trinity yourself, since you didn't even understand that.

As I said before, you are a Tritheist.

You need to repent of not believing in the Trinity. :eek:

That emoticon is what I consider to be your response.
 
D

Dave L

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I do not believe that the Father is the Son; although I know that the Bible teaches that the Son is the Father in Isaiah 9:6.

Try and think of how this applies to everything in question.

How hard is it for you to understand that the one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) became a Man? Not a 2nd God, and not 1/3 of God, but God.
The problem is, God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God did not become the son in the incarnation, The Son, along with the Father and Holy Spirit eternally exist in that form before the incarnation.
 
D

Dave L

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Dude, do you even believe in the Trinity. Triune means three-in-one.

I gave the answer that is in line with that doctrine, according to the understanding that the Lord has given me and not according to a dogmatic statement. But evidently you don't even believe in the Trinity yourself, since you didn't even understand that.

As I said before, you are a Tritheist.

You need to repent of not believing in the Trinity.
You do not follow the Christ of the bible so long as you reject the trinity.
 

justbyfaith

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God did not become the son in the incarnation,

That is a denial of sound doctrine of the Bible (Isaiah 9:6, Luke 1:35).

The Son, along with the Father and Holy Spirit eternally exist in that form before the incarnation.

Technically, you are only slightly correct, because when Jesus ascended, He ascended to be outside of time (Ephesians 4:10, Isaiah 57:15)

You do not follow the Christ of the bible so long as you reject the trinity.

I guess that means that you do not follow the Christ of the Bible.

I affirmed and do affirm the Trinity (get it through your thick head, I am not lying, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost!).
 
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Dave L

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That is a denial of sound doctrine of the Bible.



Technically, you are correct, because when Jesus ascended, He ascended to be outside of time (Ephesians 4:10, Isaiah 57:15)



I guess that means that you do not follow the Christ of the Bible.

I affirmed and do affirm the Trinity (get it through your thick head, I am not lying, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost!).
This only confirms you do not know the least about the doctrine of the trinity or the deity of Christ.
 
D

Dave L

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And they were filled with madness...Luke 6:11a.
You have no idea how Oneness robbed you of an understanding of God. And gave you a golden calf to worship instead. And with your unwillingness to crack open a few books and question your indoctrination, you'll remain deprived of worshiping God in the fullness he revealed to us in scripture.
 

Taken

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How can you have a Son without a Father? Or a Father without a Son?

HUMANS ~ natural understanding...
A man becomes a father, once he has children.

HUMANS ~ natural understanding...
Male children are sons, the Male parent is a father, once a male child born of the man.

SCRIPTURE ~ knowledge...
Human men are called fathers "OF OTHERS", whether or not the "others" are biological offspring.

SCRIPTURE ~ knowledge...
Human men called "fathers" "of"...
Their OWN children,
Their grand, gg, ggg, gggg, etc. children,
Their family, clans, tribes, etc.
Others who live in "tents",
Others who make music,
Others who are "Hebrews/Jews"
Others who are "of many Nations".

THE KNOWLEDGE ~ reveals...
Human men CAN BE "fathers", without "BIOLOGICAL" offspring.

Abram WAS a "father"... BEFORE he had "offspring".

Abram WAS a "father"...WHEN he had "offspring".

Abram "WAS" a "father"...of Ishmael, but not of Ishmael's offspring.

Abram no longer EXISTS, nor does his relationship EXIST to Ishmael's offspring.

Abram NOW...Abraham.

Abraham "IS" the BIOLOGICAL "father" of his offspring"; Isaac.

Abraham IS the "BIOLOGICAL father"...OF Isaac's, sons, g-sons, gg-sons, etc.

GODS SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~

Abraham IS the "BIOLOGICAL father"...
OF...all Jews.

NOT ALL JEWS are "SPIRITUAL sons of Abraham".

NOT ALL JEWS are "SPIRITUAL sons of God".

SOME GENTILES are BIOLOGICAL sons of Abram OR Abraham.

NOT ALL GENTILES are "SPIRITUAL" sons of Abram.

NOT ALL GENTILES are "SPIRITUAL" sons of
Abraham.

SOME Jews AND SOME Gentiles "ARE" "SPIRITUAL" sons of Abraham...
"ACCORDING TO GODS PROMISE"!!

ACCORDING "TO" GODS PROMISE "TO" ABRAHAM

SCRIPTURAL KNOWLEDGE ~
SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~

Jew or Gentile....
...(Without regard to their gender.
...(Without regard to their age.
...(Without regard to their natural citizenship.
...(Without regard to race.
...(Without regard to church affiliation.

EVERY single JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...BELIEVED IN Thee Lord GOD, "BEFORE"
1) their Natural Death...AND..."BEFORE"
2) Jesus was Revealed on Earth;
...SHALL BE SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

EVERY single JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...BELIEVED IN Thee Father God, Thee Son Jesus, Thee Power of God Christ, "AFTER"
1) Jesus the Christ was Revealed on Earth.
2) "BEFORE" their Natural death;
...SHALL BE SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

EVERY SINGLE JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...IS SAVED and BORN AGAIN...
..."IS" a son of ABRAHAM.
..."IS" a son of God.

NATURAL UNDERSTANDING ~
IS; pursuant to Natural Biological understanding.

SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~
IS: pursuant to GODS SUPERNATUAL UNSERSTANDING.

God IS THE "CREATOR and MAKER" of ALL THINGS.
He "CREATES" the NATURAL.
He "MAKES" the NATURAL become SUPERNATURAL.

He KNOWS, and UNDERSTANDS both Natural BIOLOGICAL and Supernatural.

He REVEALS in Scripture, the Natural Knowledge.....and Supernaturally REVEALS in the SPIRIT, Supernatural UNDERSTANDING of the Knowledge.

GOD THE FATHER ~

FATHER OF WHAT?
....Created Humans, WHOM He has "MADE".
AND WHO SAID SO?
....Moses (Deut 32:6)
AND WHO AGREED?
....God (Deut. 32:21)
AND WHO REVEALED "WHAT" is a son of God?
....God

Heb 1
[5] ... I will be to him a Father...
[5]....he shall be to me a Son...


2 Cor 6:
[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters..
[18] saith the Lord Almighty.

Gal 3:16
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

WHO DECLARED....JESUS IS "A" SON of God?
GOD
WHO DECLARED....GOD IS "A" FATHER of Jesus?
GOD
WHO DECLARED..."HE" shall be "A" FATHER "TO" certain "HUMAN" males and females?
Lord Almighty

WHO "IS" the Lord? Jesus
WHO "IS" the Almighty? Christ
WHO "IS"...."GOD" ???

........"WHO" IS THEE heavenly "GOD" ???
ANSWER:
HOLY ... Father, Son, Jesus, Christ, Spirit, Word, Power, Seed, LORD, Lord, Savior, Quickener, Redeemer, Almighty, Everlasting, Without Beginning, Without Ending, Without Mother, Without Father, Without "BIOLOGICAL" children, Blest, above all things;
"CREATOR" and "MAKER" of all things.

GOD..."CREATES" NATURAL humans.
GOD..."MAKES" faithful humans, SUPERNATURAL.

GOD...that IS, WAS, and Forever SHALL BE...
~~~~~~~~Lord God Almighty~~~~~~~~

You think the Father is the Son = one person. The Bible says the Son = one person and the Father = another distinct person. You and the apostate Jew in your version of the golden calf.

Congratulations on YOUR NATURAL HUMAN UNDERSTANDING commentary.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father ARE one.

ONE WHAT?
ONE; Spirit, Soul, Body, Heart, Mind, Thoughts, Person, Word, Works, Power, Ability, Holiness, Everlasting Existence without beginning, Might, Authority?

All of ^ THOSE THINGS....ONE GOD.

And THE JEWS, who HEARD Jesus' MOUTH utter...." I and my Father are one" ...

DID WHAT?
Attempted to STONE JESUS.
FOR WHAT?
For BLASPHEMY.
WHAT Blasphemy?
Jesus MAKING HIMSELF "GOD",via, His claim.

Matt 4:
[7] Jesus said ... the Lord thy God.
[10] ...saith Jesus...Lord thy God...

Mark 12:
[29] And Jesus answered..
The first of all the commandments IS:
...The Lord our God is one Lord:

^^^ WHO IS speaking of WHOM?
Jesus is speaking OF HIMSELF...
Lord thy God.
Lord thy God.
Lord our God is one Lord.

LEARN THE TRUTH
IN THE WRITTEN "KNOWLEDGE"

TRUST TO BELIEVE
THE WRITTEN "KNOWLEDGE"

Thee Lord God Almighty
PROVIDES His SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING of His PROVIDED "KNOWLEDGE"....
"IF" a man "WILL TRUST TO BELIEVE".

Scripture REVEALS in multiple passages...
The Father and Son and Spirit are ONE GOD.

It is HUMANS who TEACH, the Father IS NOT, the Son, and the Son IS NOT the Father.

But Yet JESUS said TO Philip...(when Philip ASKED Jesus TO "SHOW" Philip the FATHER)...

Jesus SAID unto TO Philip....(paraphrasing...
I am He, You are LOOKING AT HIM the Father.

John 14
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

How LONG have YOU Dave L., been claiming YOU are with JESUS....AND preaching, HE IS NOT THE FATHER ?

How LONG have YOU Dave L., been calling others APOSTATE, because THEY claim the Father and Son ARE ONE GOD?

THINK about it...
Following along with HUMAN Carnal understanding....or TRUSTING the Knowledge, and Receiving GODS Spiritual Understanding.

Rom 8
[7]... the carnal mind is enmity against God:

Eph 1
[12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

John 14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 8
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Matt 15
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Luke 24:[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures...

THEN? WHEN? (Luke 24).
WHEN they Trusted to Believe, He is He:
Was bodily DEAD, and bodily RISEN UP.
Everlasting Spiritually ALIVE, Bodily Dead, Bodily Alive...Everlasting Spiritually ALIVE, Bodily ALIVE...IS, WAS, and SHALL BE.

Lord God Almighty...ONE GOD.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

justbyfaith

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You have no idea how Oneness robbed you of an understanding of God. And gave you a golden calf to worship instead. And with your unwillingness to crack open a few books and question your indoctrination, you'll remain deprived of worshiping God in the fullness he revealed to us in scripture.
Who says I am unwilling to look at what the books have to say? I don't have access to any. Provide me a link.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
Who says I am unwilling to look at what the books have to say? I don't have access to any. Provide me a link.
Do a search on the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the eternal generation of the Son. The eternal Sonship of Christ. You will find correct views and false views. But the study will be rewarding as it unveils the glory of God in scripture. Also a study of the ecumenical creeds will give you reasons why they rejected your present beliefs.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
HUMANS ~ natural understanding...
A man becomes a father, once he has children.

HUMANS ~ natural understanding...
Male children are sons, the Male parent is a father, once a male child born of the man.

SCRIPTURE ~ knowledge...
Human men are called fathers "OF OTHERS", whether or not the "others" are biological offspring.

SCRIPTURE ~ knowledge...
Human men called "fathers" "of"...
Their OWN children,
Their grand, gg, ggg, gggg, etc. children,
Their family, clans, tribes, etc.
Others who live in "tents",
Others who make music,
Others who are "Hebrews/Jews"
Others who are "of many Nations".

THE KNOWLEDGE ~ reveals...
Human men CAN BE "fathers", without "BIOLOGICAL" offspring.

Abram WAS a "father"... BEFORE he had "offspring".

Abram WAS a "father"...WHEN he had "offspring".

Abram "WAS" a "father"...of Ishmael, but not of Ishmael's offspring.

Abram no longer EXISTS, nor does his relationship EXIST to Ishmael's offspring.

Abram NOW...Abraham.

Abraham "IS" the BIOLOGICAL "father" of his offspring"; Isaac.

Abraham IS the "BIOLOGICAL father"...OF Isaac's, sons, g-sons, gg-sons, etc.

GODS SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~

Abraham IS the "BIOLOGICAL father"...
OF...all Jews.

NOT ALL JEWS are "SPIRITUAL sons of Abraham".

NOT ALL JEWS are "SPIRITUAL sons of God".

SOME GENTILES are BIOLOGICAL sons of Abram OR Abraham.

NOT ALL GENTILES are "SPIRITUAL" sons of Abram.

NOT ALL GENTILES are "SPIRITUAL" sons of
Abraham.

SOME Jews AND SOME Gentiles "ARE" "SPIRITUAL" sons of Abraham...
"ACCORDING TO GODS PROMISE"!!

ACCORDING "TO" GODS PROMISE "TO" ABRAHAM

SCRIPTURAL KNOWLEDGE ~
SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~

Jew or Gentile....
...(Without regard to their gender.
...(Without regard to their age.
...(Without regard to their natural citizenship.
...(Without regard to race.
...(Without regard to church affiliation.

EVERY single JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...BELIEVED IN Thee Lord GOD, "BEFORE"
1) their Natural Death...AND..."BEFORE"
2) Jesus was Revealed on Earth;
...SHALL BE SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

EVERY single JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...BELIEVED IN Thee Father God, Thee Son Jesus, Thee Power of God Christ, "AFTER"
1) Jesus the Christ was Revealed on Earth.
2) "BEFORE" their Natural death;
...SHALL BE SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

EVERY SINGLE JEW or GENTILE...
...WHO;
...IS SAVED and BORN AGAIN...
..."IS" a son of ABRAHAM.
..."IS" a son of God.

NATURAL UNDERSTANDING ~
IS; pursuant to Natural Biological understanding.

SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING ~
IS: pursuant to GODS SUPERNATUAL UNSERSTANDING.

God IS THE "CREATOR and MAKER" of ALL THINGS.
He "CREATES" the NATURAL.
He "MAKES" the NATURAL become SUPERNATURAL.

He KNOWS, and UNDERSTANDS both Natural BIOLOGICAL and Supernatural.

He REVEALS in Scripture, the Natural Knowledge.....and Supernaturally REVEALS in the SPIRIT, Supernatural UNDERSTANDING of the Knowledge.

GOD THE FATHER ~

FATHER OF WHAT?
....Created Humans, WHOM He has "MADE".
AND WHO SAID SO?
....Moses (Deut 32:6)
AND WHO AGREED?
....God (Deut. 32:21)
AND WHO REVEALED "WHAT" is a son of God?
....God

Heb 1
[5] ... I will be to him a Father...
[5]....he shall be to me a Son...


2 Cor 6:
[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters..
[18] saith the Lord Almighty.

Gal 3:16
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

WHO DECLARED....JESUS IS "A" SON of God?
GOD
WHO DECLARED....GOD IS "A" FATHER of Jesus?
GOD
WHO DECLARED..."HE" shall be "A" FATHER "TO" certain "HUMAN" males and females?
Lord Almighty

WHO "IS" the Lord? Jesus
WHO "IS" the Almighty? Christ
WHO "IS"...."GOD" ???

........"WHO" IS THEE heavenly "GOD" ???
ANSWER:
HOLY ... Father, Son, Jesus, Christ, Spirit, Word, Power, Seed, LORD, Lord, Savior, Quickener, Redeemer, Almighty, Everlasting, Without Beginning, Without Ending, Without Mother, Without Father, Without "BIOLOGICAL" children, Blest, above all things;
"CREATOR" and "MAKER" of all things.

GOD..."CREATES" NATURAL humans.
GOD..."MAKES" faithful humans, SUPERNATURAL.

GOD...that IS, WAS, and Forever SHALL BE...
~~~~~~~~Lord God Almighty~~~~~~~~



Congratulations on YOUR NATURAL HUMAN UNDERSTANDING commentary.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father ARE one.

ONE WHAT?
ONE; Spirit, Soul, Body, Heart, Mind, Thoughts, Person, Word, Works, Power, Ability, Holiness, Everlasting Existence without beginning, Might, Authority?

All of ^ THOSE THINGS....ONE GOD.

And THE JEWS, who HEARD Jesus' MOUTH utter...." I and my Father are one" ...

DID WHAT?
Attempted to STONE JESUS.
FOR WHAT?
For BLASPHEMY.
WHAT Blasphemy?
Jesus MAKING HIMSELF "GOD",via, His claim.

Matt 4:
[7] Jesus said ... the Lord thy God.
[10] ...saith Jesus...Lord thy God...

Mark 12:
[29] And Jesus answered..
The first of all the commandments IS:
...The Lord our God is one Lord:

^^^ WHO IS speaking of WHOM?
Jesus is speaking OF HIMSELF...
Lord thy God.
Lord thy God.
Lord our God is one Lord.

LEARN THE TRUTH
IN THE WRITTEN "KNOWLEDGE"

TRUST TO BELIEVE
THE WRITTEN "KNOWLEDGE"

Thee Lord God Almighty
PROVIDES His SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING of His PROVIDED "KNOWLEDGE"....
"IF" a man "WILL TRUST TO BELIEVE".

Scripture REVEALS in multiple passages...
The Father and Son and Spirit are ONE GOD.

It is HUMANS who TEACH, the Father IS NOT, the Son, and the Son IS NOT the Father.

But Yet JESUS said TO Philip...(when Philip ASKED Jesus TO "SHOW" Philip the FATHER)...

Jesus SAID unto TO Philip....(paraphrasing...
I am He, You are LOOKING AT HIM the Father.

John 14
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

How LONG have YOU Dave L., been claiming YOU are with JESUS....AND preaching, HE IS NOT THE FATHER ?

How LONG have YOU Dave L., been calling others APOSTATE, because THEY claim the Father and Son ARE ONE GOD?

THINK about it...
Following along with HUMAN Carnal understanding....or TRUSTING the Knowledge, and Receiving GODS Spiritual Understanding.

Rom 8
[7]... the carnal mind is enmity against God:

Eph 1
[12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

John 14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 8
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Matt 15
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Luke 24:[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures...

THEN? WHEN? (Luke 24).
WHEN they Trusted to Believe, He is He:
Was bodily DEAD, and bodily RISEN UP.
Everlasting Spiritually ALIVE, Bodily Dead, Bodily Alive...Everlasting Spiritually ALIVE, Bodily ALIVE...IS, WAS, and SHALL BE.

Lord God Almighty...ONE GOD.

Glory to God,
Taken
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

- Albert Einstein
 

justbyfaith

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Indeed, Taken...

There is one Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 8:6)...one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
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United States
Do a search on the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the eternal generation of the Son. The eternal Sonship of Christ. You will find correct views and false views. But the study will be rewarding as it unveils the glory of God in scripture. Also a study of the ecumenical creeds will give you reasons why they rejected your present beliefs.
Of course I don't need to do any of that because I know what the Bible says on the matter.

But if you will do the search and give me a link to what you are talking about, then we can continue this discussion...
 

justbyfaith

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I did a search on eternal generation of the Son, and looked at the first article.

Is the Eternal Generation of the Son a Biblical Idea?

In it, Keith Johnson even admits,

There is no undisputed proof-text for eternal generation.

and, near the beginning of the article,

Although the eternal generation of the Son is affirmed in early confessions such as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed (AD 381) and post-Reformation statements like the Westminster Confession, several prominent evangelical theologians object to this doctrine on the grounds that it lacks biblical support.