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Featured Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You might read this before you decide.

    Oneness Tract: Trinitarianism or Oneness Unitarianism?: It Does Matter

    Posted on March 9, 2018 by Edward Dalcour
    Spanish edition Here-

    Trinitarianism or Oneness unitarianism

    John 17:3: “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent” (cf. John 4:24). The one true God has revealed Himself as three distinct persons, the Father and the Son, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    The Unbiblical Teachings of Oneness-Unitarian Theology

    Oneness Christology is a clear and major departure from biblical orthodoxy. Similar to Islam, it teaches a unitarian/unipersonal (i.e., one person) concept of God. Hence, the chief Oneness Christological divergences from that of the biblical teachings are as follows:

    1. Oneness Christology denies the unipersonality and deity of the Son. It teaches that “Jesus” is the name of the unipersonal deity. Accordingly, the “Son” merely represents the human nature of Jesus, while “Father/Holy Spirit” represents the divine nature of Jesus—thus, the Son is not God, only the Father is (cf. Bernard, Oneness of God, 1983: 99, 103, 252).

    2. Along with the deity, Oneness Christology denies the preexistence and incarnation of the Son, and thus, His role as the Creator (cf. ibid., 103-4; Magee, Is Jesus in the Godhead or Is The Godhead in Jesus?, 1988: 25). By denying the preexistence of the person of the Son, Oneness doctrine rejects the incarnation of the divine Son holding to the erroneous notion that it was Jesus as the Father, not the Son, who came down and wrapped Himself in flesh, and that “flesh” was called “Son” (cf. Bernard, 106, 122).

    In sharp contrast to Oneness Christology, Scripture presents clearly and definitely that the distinct person of the Son 1) is fully God (cf. Dan. 7:9-14; John 1:18; 5:17-18; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:3, 8, 10; 1 John 5:20; Rev. 1:8, 22:13), 2) was the Creator of all things (cf. John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1: 2, 10-12), 3) eternally coexisted with and is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit (cf. Gen. 19:24; Dan 7:9-14; Matt. 28:19; John 17:5; 2 Cor. 13:14; 2 John 1:3; Rev. 5:13-14), and 4) became fully man in order “to give His life a ransom for many” (cf. John 1:1, 14; Mark 10:45; Phil. 2:6-11).

    This is the Jesus of biblical revelation. Jesus Christ is the only mediator and intercessor between God the Father and human beings. Jesus is the divine Son, the monogenēs theos (“unique God”) who is always in the bosom of the Father (John 1:18), a personal self-aware subject, distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. In contrast to Oneness Christology, Jesus is not the Father, but “the Son of the Father” (2 John 1:3; cf. John 17:5ff; 1 John 1:3).

    Worshiping the unipersonal God of Oneness theology is not worshiping the true God in spirit nor truth. The Oneness concept of God is fundamentally the same as Islam and the Watchtower (Jehovah’s Witnesses): a unipersonal deity with no distinction of persons. The true God of biblical revelation is triune—the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.



    Edward Dalcour. (n.d.). Oneness Tract.
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You misrepresent Christ and are a false teacher. If you really love God, learn about him so you can truthfully present him. I've mentioned enough resources to get you started.
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

    "Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved."
    -- The Athanasian Creed, 500 AD.


    I unequivocably agree with and affirm the above creed, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

    I would clarify that the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ means that He was made according to the seed of David according to the flesh (Romans 1:3 (kjv)); however in His Deity He is uncreated.

    I would also bring to the forefront the following portion:

    Because scripture teaches that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

    Sincerely yours,

    @justbyfaith
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I praise the Lord for this...If they call the Master of the house Beelzebub, how much more the members of His household! Matthew 10:25.

    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:10.
     
  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    You are not Einstein, and I gave you the elementary point by point, because you have already revealed the SIMPLE TRUTH, is beyond your understanding, and apparently already FORGOT, you were arguing AGAINST the SIMPLE TRUTH.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The following being what is said about Oneness Pentecostalism in @Dave L's "tract".

    My understanding is that the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary; and therefore the human Jesus is indeed God in the flesh. So either I am not Oneness or else Oneness Pentecostalism is being misrepresented by this tract.

    I do not deny the preexistence of the Son; for I say that He preexisted as the Father: and also that He inhabits eternity as the eternally begotten Son of God...however He was clearly begotten in the incarnation according to Luke 1:35; and after He died He ascended to be again outside of time (inhabiting eternity as Jehovah beside Jehovah---the same Person with added experiential knowledge). Ephesians 4:10, Isaiah 57:15.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). But three distinct individuals within the Triune Godhead.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    @Dave L, you are the false teacher here.

    You are going by book knowledge rather than by what the Bible says..adhering to the teachings of men rather than letting Him teach you by His method of comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    You do not get your teaching from the Bible but from books about the Bible, which may be flawed indeed, being written by men who may or may not have understanding of what the Bible really says.

    It is clear from the scriptures that what is faithful and true will not be accepted by most people...1 Corinthians 2:14, Matthew 7:13-14, Jeremiah 29:13.

    You are thinking naturally and as a natural man you cannot receive the things of the Spirit of the Lord.

    Too bad for you.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Father, Son, and Holy Ghost at Jesus' baptism... @Dave L, how many Gods is that, and how many Lords is that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Never mind...I think that you are beyond hope...because you called the Holy Ghost who dwells within me the spirit of Antichrist...and that amounts to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost...I'm so sorry for you, @Dave L. Not shedding any tears though...no sense crying over something that can't be reversed.
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If you have the Spirit if truth (the Holy Spirit) you would not side with the JWs and Islam in your view of God.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If you are right, the bible is wrong.
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for considering the tract. The Son preexisted as the Son. The Father preexisted as the Father. And the Holy Spirit preexisted as the Holy Spirit. Here's where you get it wrong by saying the Father became the Son. So you end up fitting the profile for having the spirit of Antichrist as John says, when you deny the Father AND the Son.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    To confess that Jesus is the Christ is to confess the Father and the Son; for that is who He is.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I am beginning to grow weary of the arguments; so, you win; however I also do not concede. I just consider it to be fruitless to continue to talk to you.

    re #1233 and #1234.

    However, as I regain the energy to keep on fighting the good fight, I will do so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    @Dave L, I noticed that you didn't answer the question.

    A friend of mine told me to ask you, "What is your view of the Trinity?"

    I don't expect an answer from you. You have not answered any of my questions up to this point.

    All you have done is point the finger, judge, and condemn; and I have responded according to Isaiah 54:17.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I begin to see how fruitless it is to try to explain the doctrine to someone who has not been baptized in Jesus' Name properly (who has only done so in order to have an edge in dealing with us, but who has not repented in the doing of it). Without repenting and putting your faith in the operation of God, all you did was get wet.
     
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