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So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)Why do you and other Calvinists bother? After all, everybody's fate was preprogrammed before creation.
Or is this a puppet masters entertainment watching us dance on his strings?
THE WORK OF GOD.Giving man way too much credit. You do realize they cover themselves with fig leaves? Same fig leaves when Jesus came looking for fruit and only found leaves (cover) with no fruit. ‘Nothing thereon, but leaves only.’ Matthew 21:19-20 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. [20] And when the disciples saw it , they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
John 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Do you agree it is not dead works so it (believing)can’t be a work of the flesh void of the Spirit of God. Where there is the Spirit of God there is Life.
God chooses.
Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.THE WORK OF GOD.
Well said!So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)
Reliance on grace is everything.
Why would anyone want to put a fig leaf over that?Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.
So... do you want to the the master of your own fate...? (excuse the question thus phrased...)
Reliance on grace is everything.
You are already telling God which sinners He "ought" to save: the supposedly meritorious, cooperative ones. Whereas the supposed merit of cooperation independently of the working of His grace is negated by 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).Of course faith and grace are the cornerstones.
Calvinism rejects free will so we don't have any say in the issue according to them but the Bible says we do,
Calvinism says we were subject to a giant lottery before creation. Some randomly chosen for salvation and some for damnation.
So let me ask you, do you think people have a right to choose God or reject him?
After all if we have no say in the matter all why are some damned for eternity while others are saved? After all per Calvinism none have a voice in any way in being saved are not. So why some and not all all or none or some others instead?
Please answer that question. But don't say just because it's God's will because that would not be a loving or just God.
You are already telling God which sinners He "ought" to save: the supposedly meritorious, cooperative ones. Whereas the supposed merit of cooperation independently of the working of His grace is negated by 'not of works' (Ephesians 2.9).
(This discussions can go round and round...)
And under Calvinism, God doesn't show many people anything else.“The wicked choose it.” They know no different than what this world has shown and taught them until God shows them something new. Until He opens their eyes and ears. Man doesn’t and can not open his own ears and eyes to Spirit. It has to be birthed ...born. That which is flesh...is flesh. Spirit is NOT born of flesh but Spirit is born of Spirit. Keep them in hell by continuing to justify it by saying flesh can bear itself Spiritual eyes and ears and because it doesn’t ...they are evil and those smart enough to produce a response to God by flesh are not evil. All flesh is the same. Dead works without Spirit. 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Exactly; it's the work of God from start to finish, by His grace.
And under Calvinism, God doesn't show many people anything else.
Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses. Repeating those same verses or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.Jane demonstrates an inability to deal with these 4 verses...jn10:26-30.
She cannot welcome or understand the verses so she avoids scripture as she cannot answer at all.
Jesus teaching is where the system known as Calvinism comes from.
If she or anyone else would attempt to work through the verses they might get a glimpse of the truth.
Posted on this very thread, by a Calvinist:You did not answer the question once again.
(Bolding mine)The Five Points of Calvinism
David N. Steele & Curtis C. Thomas
The Five Points of Calvinism
....<Jane Snip for length>...
Limited Atonement
Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only and actually secured salvation for them.
I keep see you ignoring scripture and/or mutilating it's meaning. Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher. And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.Can you show any Calvinist teaching what you claim
Can you use scripture at all?
If you want to go on that target, I would invite you to post on the thread already for those tangental thoughts, or start a new one (which is probably a cleaner/simpler ideas).What about Joseph Smith. How is he any different from Calvin?
If you want to go on that target, there's already a thread for that.
Many are called few chosen.Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses. Repeating those same verses or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.
Posted on this very thread, by a Calvinist:
(Bolding mine)
God only saves *some*.
I keep see you ignoring scripture and/or mutilating it's meaning. Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher. And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.
Thinking about this is, probably simpler/cleaner to start a new thread or have a PM conversation.What is the title of the thread?
I’ve alread looked at your private rant. I don’t see anyone here claiming to follow Calvin. I follow Christ. Do you follow smith?What is the title of the thread?
(I think this was supposed to be addressed to me)I’ve alread looked at your private rant. I don’t see anyone here claiming to follow Calvin. I follow Christ. Do you follow smith?
THE WORK OF GOD.