The Five Points of Calvinism

[Waiting on him]

God wants all men you say. All not some.

He calls to all but not all listen.

Revelation 3:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

That is free will choice to open the door or not.

It does not say he only knocks at some doors.

Notice it the door of the church he’s knocking on?

 

[Helen]

“no man can come unto Me except the Father draw him”? Does God draw all men to Him?

Thanks for quoting me..it helped me see that I had quoted it backward!!
John 14:6 ( the correct quote:- )
6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. "

 

[Helen]

They are all Christians. Different denotations and different views on a lot of points, but still all Christians.

The one thing I have learned from Christian web sites is ..that many of them do not believe your statement quoted here...

They will say- " No, if you don't believe the same as me, you are not a Christian" They may not say it in so many words, nevertheless they are saying that! Usually it is stated as " Not a 'real Christian.."

Pathetic, blinkered , and narrow minded.
But God is still on the throne...and they are not the final judge.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The one thing I have learned from Christian web sites is ..that many of them do not believe your statement quoted here...

They will say- " No, if you don't believe the same as me, you are not a Christian" They may not say it in so many words, nevertheless they are saying that! Usually it is stated as " Not a 'real Christian.."

Pathetic, blinkered , and narrow minded.
But God is still on the throne...and they are not the final judge.

Oh I am VERY aware that those types of people/institutions exist.
I would rather just acknowledge people whom accept Christ as Christians, rather than piling on extra requirements.

 

[Helen]

The way I see it is I’m following the teachings of Christ.

You, me and ten thousand others...

( Borrowed from @bbyrd009 ..thanks Mark. )

..

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This apparently is a problem.
1 Corinthians 1:12-13 KJV
[12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Amen to that.

 

[CoreIssue]

Notice it the door of the church he’s knocking on?

Nice try but no. Individuals within the churches.

As well talking about church ages is not talking about denominations and buildings, but individuals.

Individuals are saved one at a time.

 

[CoreIssue]

Thanks for quoting me..it helped me see that I had quoted it backward!!
John 14:6 ( the correct quote:- )
6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. "

Exactly.

People come to the father through Christ who offers the father his sacrifice for the individuals. Then the father gives them to Christ as his own.

Calvinists cut the Christ part out.

 

[Waiting on him]

Nice try but no. Individuals within the churches.

As well talking about church ages is not talking about denominations and buildings, but individuals.

Individuals are saved one at a time.

I thought the church is one body. Isn’t this epistle addressed to the laodetia s?or some might suggest if it’s adressed to the church then its addressed to any member of the body to read. Why do you think he refers to himself as the amen?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Jane_Doe22,

[Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses.]
Sure he is but that is another matter...I asked you to comment on 4 verses in Jn 10...this is 4 x you cannot answer, but who is counting.
Furthermore, I do not think you know what Calvinism is.

[ Repeating those same verses]
I repeat them because you refuse to answer them

[or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses]
I am not insulting you. You are claiming all manner of falsehoods, you are offered scripture which you seek to ignore. You sort of insult yourself by refusing to honor scripture by speaking of it.

[or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.]
of course sheep voluntarily follow the Shepherd because He enables them and makes them willing to do so.
[posted by a Calvinist on this thread]
(Bolding mine)
God only saves *some*.

Of course, He only saves some, not all, Mt.7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[I keep see you ignoring scripture]

Where did you see that? You have not offered any,

[and/or mutilating it's meaning.]
You have not commented on one verse yet
Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher.

You do not even know what it says, do you

[And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.]
You are trying to sneak away because you cannot answer. You jumped into the deep end of the pool and cannot swim. that is not a crime. What is a crime is your attacking a position that has been held by millions and you do not know what you are talking about.

Here is the 4 verses you avoided..maybe this time....
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

They are all Christians. Different denotations and different views on a lot of points, but still all Christians.

Real Christians follow the biblical Jesus. He was not lucifers half brother from the planet Kolub.

 

[CoreIssue]

I thought the church is one body. Isn’t this epistle addressed to the laodetia s?or some might suggest if it’s adressed to the church then its addressed to any member of the body to read. Why do you think he refers to himself as the amen?

The seventh church is not saved therefore not part of the body of Christ.

The invitation is to join the body of Christ which requires individual decision.

There is a warning as well that those who do not open the door spit out into the Tribulation Period with the rest of the nonbelievers.

That is John saying Amen, not Christ.

The seven churches categorically deny Calvinism.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"CoreIssue,

[The seventh church is not saved therefore not part of the body of Christ.]
???
[The invitation is to join the body of Christ which requires individual decision.]
where do you think you see this?

[There is a warning as well that those who do not open the door spit out into the Tribulation Period with the rest of the nonbelievers.]
what tribulation?
[The seven churches categorically deny Calvinism.]
The early church taught it.

 

[Waiting on him]

The seventh church is not saved therefore not part of the body of Christ.

The invitation is to join the body of Christ which requires individual decision.

There is a warning as well that those who do not open the door spit out into the Tribulation Period with the rest of the nonbelievers.

That is John saying Amen, not Christ.

The seven churches categorically deny Calvinism.

That’s Christ saying he is the Amen.
Revelation 3:14 KJV
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Tecarta Bible

 

[farouk]

That’s Christ saying he is the Amen.
Revelation 3:14 KJV
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Tecarta Bible

Great verse; and I really don't understand the comment which you responded to about the seven churches being supposedly and categorically against Calvinism.

 

[farouk]

Notice it the door of the church he’s knocking on?

Good point; it's about communion with the Lord (rather than some supposed "proof" about the freedom of those who are dead in sins...)

 

[Waiting on him]

The seven churches categorically deny Calvinism

I must have not read the part where the churches in the epistles of revelation addressed anything. I thought Christ was grading them?

 

[Waiting on him]

Great verse; and I really don't understand the comment which you responded to about the seven churches being supposedly and categorically against Calvinism.

Me either.

 

[Waiting on him]

That’s Christ saying he is the Amen.
Revelation 3:14 KJV
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Tecarta Bible

So, why do you think Christ refers to himself as the Amen? I forgot to cap the A last time lol.

 

[farouk]

Me either.

.....?