BAPTISM

[bbyrd009]

while we use the term "church" in the biblical sense.

ah sorry, who is this "we" again? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

It is not considered by most Bible-believers (Christians) to be holy scripture.

The fact that its fruit is most often terrorism is the only evidence that I need to be able to discount it as holy scripture.

I guess those democratically elected governments aren't overthrowing themselves lol

fwiw Paul would have deemed them Scripture I guess,
www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/God_Breathed.html#.XHarlPZFzIU

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you didn't. You thought you did, but when you have studied the subject as I have you have proven nothing.

Again with the dishonest claims.
Okay - I openly challenge you to show me where the word "Baptism" is defined in the NT.

I've already shown you where is it defined in the contemporary 1st century document, The Didache.
I eagerly await your educated response . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

If I told you you will not hear it. God did not continue the religion that killed His Son. He set the Jews aside, including their religion, and went to the Gentiles with a gospel of grace. Why did God have the Temple destroyed if the Jews religion was to continue? The gospel of grace is for all of mankind including the Jews. Did you not see Peter's reluctance to go to a Gentile when he spoke to Cornelius. Did you not read about Peter's vision where God told him what He has cleansed let no man call unclean.

When Jesus shed His blood on the cross it paid for the sins of all the world. Every sin that man has and will commit was paid for. But just as the Jews rejected Jesus as their king ,today a person refusing to believe that what Jesus did on the cross pays for their sins have rejected Jesus' payment and their sins remain.

Your refusal to see that while Jesus was on this earth offering the Jews their promised kingdom, He and the 12 never rescinded the Law of Moses.

But only a blind person can not see that Paul said WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES. This can be seen in Acts 21;20. Jew's religion was a covenant gospel which included the Law of Moses for the Jews only and now there is a gospel of grace for all of mankind. As long as you can't see this you will never be under grace because you will refuse to see it.

I bet you did not understand that when the Jews were being good God called them His people but when they turned away to idols He called them your people when talking to a man.

I do wish that people would study the scriptures as a history of God's dealing with the Jews and when they refused Him He did not turn to the world with the same failed ideas of religion.

But you are saying that James' epistle is the gospel to the Jews, and therefore should not be included as holy scripture in the biblical canon.

Yet you said,

God did not continue the religion that killed His Son.

If James' epistle is the gospel to the Jews and not to the Gentiles, then He continued that religion in James' epistle.

But if James is preaching the same gospel as Paul, then you are correct in saying that God did not continue that old religion; not even when James penned his epistle.

Am I correct in my understanding that you believe that James' epistle is a continuation of Judaism and should therefore be discarded?

I am glad that you agree with me in making this statement:

The gospel of grace is for all of mankind including the Jews.

In this, did the Lord divide the gospel into two sections, one section for Jews and the other section for Gentiles?

Or is there one gospel of Jesus Christ that both Jew and Gentile are to believe on in order to be saved?

If God decided to preach a different gospel to the Jewish people in James, why did He do that?

Does He want Jewish people who preach their own gospel to Gentiles to be condemned in the preaching to others of that which saves them? See Galatians 1:6-9.

 

[H. Richard]

"justbyfaith, post: 515765, member: 7886" But you are saying that James' epistle is the gospel to the Jews, and therefore should not be included as holy scripture in the biblical canon.

NO I DID NOT SAY THAT. Remove your words "biblical canon." with the ""grace gospel" and you will have what I am saying.

If James' epistle is the gospel to the Jews and not to the Gentiles, then He continued that religion in James' epistle.

When was the Temple destroyed???? When it was destroyed God stopped His covenants with Israel and went out to the whole world wit a different plan of grace. Jews can not be saved in any other way than the Gentiles are being saved; BY GRACE.

But if James is preaching the same gospel as Paul, then you are correct in saying that God did not continue that old religion; not even when James penned his epistle.

JAMES IS """NOT""" PREACHING THE SAME GOSPEL AS PAUL. He was preaching Law

Am I correct in my understanding that you believe that James' epistle is a continuation of Judaism and should therefore be discarded?

DISCARDED NO, I am saying it should not be used in the grace church of His Body. Why don't you see what I write.

I am glad that you agree with me in making this statement:

I didn't agree with the word you used """DISCARDED"""

In this, did the Lord divide the gospel into two sections, one section for Jews and the other section for Gentiles?

There WAS, past tense, a gospel of the kingdom under the Jewish covenant that promised a kingdom for the Jews on this earth. That gospel will again take effect when Jesus returns and sets up the Jewish kingdom.

Or is there one gospel of Jesus Christ that both Jew and Gentile are to believe on in order to be saved?

In this age, of God's grace, what you wrote above is corect

If God decided to preach a different gospel to the Jewish people in James, why did He do that?

I am getting tired of your refusal to see the truth. From Abraham to the revelation of the Mystery to Paul the gospel of the promised kingdom of the Jews was in effect. I said above that when God destroyed the Jewish Temple He turned away from the Jews and and gave the GOSPEL OF GOD"S GRACE to the whole world. Must I say again that that included all people on this earth?

Does He want Jewish people who preach their own gospel to Gentiles to be condemned in the preaching to others of that which saves them? See Galatians 1:6-9.

The only way to be saved in this age of God's grace is to believe, have faith in, trust in have confidence in the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.

1 Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Christ died for our sins
He was dead and buried
He rose again

 

[justbyfaith]

I am getting tired of your refusal to see the truth.

Then why don't you sit down and explain it to me? Write out a dissertation of "the truth" and how it coincides with such verses as 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

The only way to be saved in this age of God's grace is to believe, have faith in, trust in have confidence in the gospel of grace as taught by Paul.

Paul taught the following:

2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So, I would ask you again if you are saying that the epistle of James isn't scripture in your eyes. It will clarify things for me; and we can go from there.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is not considered by most Bible-believers (Christians) to be holy scripture.

The fact that its fruit is most often terrorism is the only evidence that I need to be able to discount it as holy scripture.

And yet christians have done exactly the same thing by using "scripture",

 

[H. Richard]

Then why don't you sit down and explain it to me? Write out a dissertation of "the truth" and how it coincides with such verses as 2 Timothy 3:16-17.



Paul taught the following:

2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So, I would ask you again if you are saying that the epistle of James isn't scripture in your eyes. It will clarify things for me; and we can go from there.

Boy you are hard headed. I have answered your question with the truth but you just can't see it.

The Book Of James was written to the Jews ONLY -- or are you saying the Holy Spirit just forgot to include the Gentiles in James 1:1?

As I have said before and you can't see it, the Book of James is about the Law of Moses and today, under grace, we are not under the Law. so it should not BE USED IN THE GRACE CHURCH OF HIS BODY. Take that as your answer or shove it.

 

[justbyfaith]

so it should not BE USED IN THE GRACE CHURCH OF HIS BODY.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Please elaborate further.

Are you saying that James' epistle is not for the body of Christ?

That it is not for those who are recipients of grace; and therefore not for the body of Christ?

How do you account for the fact that James' epistle is holy scripture and therefore profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God might be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?

Or, are you saying that it is for the Jews only and not for Gentiles; and that therefore Jews have a different gospel than do the Gentiles? And, if the fact that it is written to Jews means it is not to be used in the body of those who are recipients of grace, does this mean that you are saying that Jews are not in the body of those who are recipients of grace?

I'm just trying to understand your pov better, please don't attack me over it.

 

[H. Richard]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Please elaborate further.

Are you saying that James' epistle is not for the body of Christ?

That it is not for those who are recipients of grace; and therefore not for the body of Christ?

How do you account for the fact that James' epistle is holy scripture and therefore profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God might be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?

Or, are you saying that it is for the Jews only and not for Gentiles; and that therefore Jews have a different gospel than do the Gentiles? And, if the fact that it is written to Jews means it is not to be used in the body of those who are recipients of grace, does this mean that you are saying that Jews are not in the body of those who are recipients of grace?

I'm just trying to understand your pov better, please don't attack me over it.

NO YOU ARE JUST BEING A NUISANCE AND i WILL NO LONGER PLAY YOUR GAME BY REPLYING TO YOU. HAVE A GOOD DAY, BYE

 

[justbyfaith]

NO YOU ARE JUST BEING A NUISANCE AND i WILL NO LONGER PLAY YOUR GAME BY REPLYING TO YOU. HAVE A GOOD DAY, BYE

The reality is that you don't have an answer for my questions because you know that my questions show your understanding to be corrupt.

 

[H. Richard]

The book of James was written to the Jews Only see James 1:1 Since it is inspired by the Holy Spirit a person has to acknowledge that it was WRITTEN TO THE JEWS ONLY and is not addressed to the grace church. To add that it was written to the grace church too is adding man's idea to James 1:1 and says that the Holy Spirit got it wrong and therefore the book must not be inspired.

To use James book as if it was written to the grace church is to add words to it.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But man should not add to it his ideas. All scripture is written for our learning but not all of it is written to us. The book of James was clearly written to the Jews only.

Therefore when the works crowd uses James words that faith without works is dead they are misusing the word of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The book of James was written to the Jews Only see James 1:1 Since it is inspired by the Holy Spirit a person has to acknowledge that it was WRITTEN TO THE JEWS ONLY and is not addressed to the grace church. To add that it was written to the grace church too is adding man's idea to James 1:1 and says that the Holy Spirit got it wrong and therefore the book must not be inspired.

To use James book as if it was written to the grace church is to add words to it.

This is a REALLY ignorant response.

James was writing to Jewish CHRISTIANS who were NO LONGER under the Law but under the grace of God through Jesus Christ.
There is NOT a "different" set of rules for Jewish Christians than there are for Gentile Christians. We are all CHRISTIANS. The things James wrote to HIS readers could have just as easily been written by Paul to HIS readers.

James didn't "add works" to anything. He simply showed that the definition of TRUE faith is NOT simply "belief" (James 2:19).
True Faith = Belief + Works (Love, Obedience).

Paul taught the SAME thing (1 Cor. 13:13, Gal. 5:6).

In fact - the Bible is FULL of examples that tell us we must cooperate with God's grace (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1, Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, James 2:14-26, Rev. 3:15-16)

 

[justbyfaith]

it was WRITTEN TO THE JEWS ONLY and is not addressed to the grace church

It sounds to me like you are trying to say that the Jews are not a part of the grace church...and therefore not recipients of the grace of our Lord?

Do you believe that Jewish people can be saved?

 

[justbyfaith]

Is the epistle of James profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness?

But it is only profitable to Jewish people?

People under grace cannot partake of the treasures in the epistle of James because it is not written to people who are under grace, but it is written only to the Jewish people?

Sounds to me like the Jewish people are privileged.

Personally, I'm the kind of person that likes to grab hold of the children's crumbs that have fallen from the master's table.

So personally, I will partake of the treasure that I find in James' epistle and not worry about the fact that it is written to a specific group of people.

Because if I pay too much attention to audience when reading the scriptures, I may think that the promise of the Lord that "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it unto the day of Christ" does not belong to me since it was written to "all the saints which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons." (Philippians 1:1).

I believe that we can glean spiritual blessing from every book in the Bible; and I am not one to put it past the Lord to use James' epistle in my life to make me a better Christian.