Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

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Heart2Soul

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Dave. Just of late I have been convicted strongly to share with several on this forum(and have done so ) the importance of refraining from taking scriptures in isolation to prove a point or substantiate a doctrine. So many do this, myself included at times, without more careful consideration to other scriptures that dwell upon the same subject which complement the ones we so often use, but contribute a more complex but complete understanding. What we are guilty of doing so often is both sides of a debate fire scripture at one another as if they contradict and prove opposite perspectives. This to my mind is madness.
Ad when we speak of the kingdom of God, as a prime example, we end up with two opposing camps. The one saying it is all spiritual and in the here and now, the other that it is physical and literal, and takes place when Jesus comes back, the New Jerusalem descends, and the new heaven and the new earth is created. And of course there are plenty of scriptures that appear to support both camps. But why not put them together, and believe all the scriptures that speak of God's kingdom, allow them to complement one another instead of opposing one another, and accept that the answer lies in the kingdom of God being both spiritual right now within, (as a direct result of Christ's coming spiritually by His Spirit thus never leaving us nor forsaking us) sanctifying us and preparing us for the literal physical kingdom that will be established when Christ returns literally and physically to take His bride home. (The differences so many of us have on where that physical kingdom will be is another discussion...some say earth, some heaven, some say one place for Israel anther place for the church, etc etc; again though, we need to take all scriptures into consideration, then things become clearer). God bless.
Very well stated!
 

marks

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still think you're having a convo with Dave, huh?
um, fwiw that may not be the best case that it appears, strange as that might sound. You could assume other perspectives just to see where they go maybe. Imo that is the worst one, but I know that is not easy to immediately connect with "hiding wisdom from the wise"

I've done that, and I've seen where they go. They go every whic
You have a chip on your shoulder if you are here to debate.

You have no idea about me.

But you will certainly evade taking responsibilty for yourself.

Much love!
mark
 
D

Dave L

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I've done that, and I've seen where they go. They go every whic


You have no idea about me.

But you will certainly evade taking responsibilty for yourself.

Much love!
mark
Just sayin' debate is a work of the flesh.
“Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,” (Romans 1:29) (KJV 1900)
 

bbyrd009

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I've done that, and I've seen where they go. They go every whic
ha, not a bad description I guess, life tends to go every which way too :)

so considering from an Eastern perspective will surely cause some cognitive dissonance in someone raised with a Hegelian perspective, with a fetish for determining the future, etc, but I'm pretty sure this can even be demonstrated Scripturally, say for instance if you were to just state an Absolute Truth from Scripture, that might oppose this "every which way" conclusion?
 

bbyrd009

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Romans 1:29 Lexicon: being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,

Strong's Greek: 2054. ἔρις (eris) -- strife

"debate" is not in there at all, I guess mistranslating Scripture comes under "deceit" though
although Queen James' scribes surely had a diff definition of "debate" than we do today, not blaming them

I kinda hate to say this bc the KJV can be a valuable ref, but at the same time I notice that whenever I get KJV Quoted at me I'm usually getting hosed too
 
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marks

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ha, not a bad description I guess, life tends to go every which way too :)

so considering from an Eastern perspective will surely cause some cognitive dissonance in someone raised with a Hegelian perspective, with a fetish for determining the future, etc, but I'm pretty sure this can even be demonstrated Scripturally, say for instance if you were to just state an Absolute Truth from Scripture, that might oppose this "every which way" conclusion?

Why, very happy to oblige!

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


But seriously . . .

I agree very much with what you say. We come to knowledge with preconceptions of what it should be like, how it is to be attained, and how we can know it's true.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I don't think learning begins with collecting facts. I think it starts in the heart.

And I think everything we learn has to be tested against, Is this just the way I want it to be, think it should be, expected it to be, or do I have some sort of Authority so I can actually know it's true?

Can we know things as true?

Much love!
Mark
 

bbyrd009

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Can we know things as true?
I don't think we are called to do that in the manner that that is understood by us, no.
He who says he knows does not yet know as he ought

But we are told to do nothing except by conviction, which is imo what should be pursued rather than what we prefer, "knowing" stuff
 

marks

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I don't think we are called to do that in the manner that that is understood by us, no.
He who says he knows does not yet know as he ought

But we are told to do nothing except by conviction, which is imo what should be pursued rather than what we prefer, "knowing" stuff

OK. This helps me understand what you are saying.

At least, I have an inner feeling of confidence that I'm responding in some sort of appropriate fashion! I just don't know!

;)
 
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bbyrd009

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OK. This helps me understand what you are saying.

At least, I have an inner feeling of confidence that I'm responding in some sort of appropriate fashion! I just don't know!

;)
Ha I think maybe
"We say it will rain; God knows it might rain"
and maybe even
"what is currently true will shortly be false"
might play in here also
 

Phoneman777

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You are not saved if you need to be told not to murder or steal. Much less worship Satan. Are ANY SDAs saved needing to be told these things?
Then I guess James is a fool to tell us we must continue looking into the perfect law of liberty and we should be that "forgetful man", right? Likewise, Paul too is so foolish to say to the church, "Let a man examine himself to see if he be in the faith" because a saved person need not be bothered with examining himself, right?

Dave, I don't halt between two opinions: I say boldly and Biblically that the saint MUST obey God's commandments - they aren't the Ten Suggestions.

On the other hand, many Christians like Israel of old want to straddle the fence between the worship of the Lord and Baal. Is the Christian free to disregard the Ten Commandments and worship Satan, blaspheme God's name, etc., or is the Christian obligated to keep the Ten Commandments?
 
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Dave L

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Then I guess James is a fool to tell us we must continue looking into the perfect law of liberty and we should be that "forgetful man", right? Likewise, Paul too is so foolish to say to the church, "Let a man examine himself to see if he be in the faith" because a saved person need not be bothered with examining himself, right?

Dave, I don't halt between two opinions: I say boldly and Biblically that the saint MUST obey God's commandments - they aren't the Ten Suggestions.

On the other hand, many Christians like Israel of old want to straddle the fence between the worship of the Lord and Baal. Is the Christian free to disregard the Ten Commandments and worship Satan, blaspheme God's name, etc., or is the Christian obligated to keep the Ten Commandments?
Personally, if you need God to tell you not to steal or murder, I wouldn't want to be alone with you.
 

Phoneman777

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Personally, if you need God to tell you not to steal or murder, I wouldn't want to be alone with you.
I'm sure God considers having to tell us not to break His seventh day Sabbath every bit as unnecessary as you consider it unnecessary for us to be told not to kill or steal...yet Christians keep right on breaking it every week, right?

Call it "selective servitude", "partiality in the law", "partial surrender", or whatever you want, but it all boils down to what it really is - "sin unto death". I choose "obedience unto righteousness".
 
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Dave L

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I'm sure God considers having to tell us not to break His seventh day Sabbath every bit as unnecessary as you consider it unnecessary for us to be told not to kill or steal...yet Christians keep right on breaking it every week, right?

Call it "selective servitude", "partiality in the law", "partial surrender", or whatever you want, but it all boils down to what it really is - "sin unto death". I choose "obedience unto righteousness".
The law was for wicked kidnappers and the like. The Sabbath weeded the obedient out from the disobedient so God could kill them. If you need this sort of thing, yikes........! That's all I can say.
 

Phoneman777

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The law was for wicked kidnappers and the like. The Sabbath weeded the obedient out from the disobedient so God could kill them. If you need this sort of thing, yikes........! That's all I can say.
We agree that the law is what weeds out fake Christians. That's why John said, "...he that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth (Jesus is the truth) is not in him". The person who claims we are at liberty to break the Sabbath or any other commandment has not Jesus in their heart - they have a devil in their heart, they are spoken of as "the least" when their name comes up in heaven, and they will hear Jesus say, "I never knew you, depart from Me ye that work lawlessness."