Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Lady Crosstalk]

Biblical repentance is granted by God.
look;

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

No one repents unless God enables them. That is why it is His mercy and grace to us, to sinners He has elected.

The Acts 11:18 passage is referring to a whole group of people (the Gentiles) and I think we need to be careful about applying to an individual what God intended for a people group. Surely you don't believe that what is mentioned about a people group applies to every individual within that group? The passage is obviously stating that God gives the Gentiles the opportunity to repent and be saved but that repentance is still a decision. Otherwise, why would we be enjoined to repent throughout the NT? (see Mark 1:15; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30 and many more by various Bible writers, including the Lord Jesus Himself.) In the same way, Paul viewed suffering for Christ's sake an opportunity (see Philippians 1:29).

the unsaved ..DO NOT...understand the saving truths of repentance and faith, that is why they remain unsaved;

God gives us the opportunity to surrender to Him. Just as a troop of soldiers always have the opportunity to surrender but some do not and are either victorious or get annihilated. That does not take the choice away from them.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

He put the tree in the garden so he could have an excuse to fry them for existing.



So you are saying man has a choice in the matter of whether he is saved or not. You can't have it both ways.



At least you admit that man has a choice. You are not like most Calvinists in this belief.

So...you are saying that they do not have to be regenerated before they can have saving faith?

You believe that man can choose to put his faith in Christ when he hears the gospel message?

No,
No,
No,
Men choose what shoes to wear.what jam to put on their toast, what color car they like,etc.
When it comes to spiritual truths they CANNOT welcome or understand it at all. The fall did not injure them, it killed them.
Regeneration enables belief.
The Op indicates this..,no man can come, unless the Father...
Men do not have saving faith in them unless God grants it to them.
Without God pertaining each of the elect to come
Nobody would come.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Jesus Himself clearly points out that our salvation is NOT confirmed (sealed) by God the Father until we act in repentance towards God, through faith in His Son.
John 3[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
.
Mat. 22[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen [confirmed, sealed].
.
Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Hello EB,
GOD not only elects the individuals who make up those described as everyone believing , but He graciously in love and mercy clothes them supplying proper wedding garment.
The Spirit quickened all such persons enabling them to repent and believe.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The Acts 11:18 passage is referring to a whole group of people (the Gentiles) and I think we need to be careful about applying to an individual what God intended for a people group. Surely you don't believe that what is mentioned about a people group applies to every individual within that group? The passage is obviously stating that God gives the Gentiles the opportunity to repent and be saved but that repentance is still a decision. Otherwise, why would we be enjoined to repent throughout the NT? (see Mark 1:15; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30 and many more by various Bible writers, including the Lord Jesus Himself.) In the same way, Paul viewed suffering for Christ's sake an opportunity (see Philippians 1:29).




God gives us the opportunity to surrender to Him. Just as a troop of soldiers always have the opportunity to surrender but some do not and are either victorious or get annihilated. That does not take the choice away from them.

You are correct in saying it is a people group for sure. However notice it is All of God who grants repentance and faith, see it? God grants repentance to the nation's, not Israel only anymore, those believers scattered worldwide, each one God grants repentance to..the word grants is from the same root, graced to them, here and in Philipians 1:29

 

[SovereignGrace]

Jesus Himself clearly points out that our salvation is NOT confirmed (sealed) by God the Father until we act in repentance towards God, through faith in His Son.
John 3[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
.
Mat. 22[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen [confirmed, sealed].
.
Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The OP speaks about unconditional election, not salvation. Yes, all who were unconditionally elected will be saved, but unconditional election took place before God said, “Let there be light.”

Man had no say in who and why God unconditionally elected those He chose. However, I agree that faith and repentance from us is required when we are saved, yet both are gifts of, and from, God.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What's another theological word for "picked"? It rhymes with "wrecked" which is what I've just done to your point.

They were initially elected/picked/chosen/selected/however you want to say it - but then rejected thereafter, and whatever God-ordained arrangement that followed has no bearing on that which happened beforehand.

I am not sure how you miss this...national election to privilege, is not individuals being elected.
If God said He was going to elect out of the USA ,124000 million persons throughout time, it tells you that it is not every person that lived in the USA .
It is a portion or a remnant...get it?.not everyone.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are correct in saying it is a people group for sure. However notice it is All of God who grants repentance and faith, see it? God grants repentance to the nation's, not Israel only anymore, those believers scattered worldwide, each one God grants repentance to..the word grants is from the same root, graced to them, here and in Philipians 1:29

How many quote Philippians 1:29, yet don’t truly grasp it? It has been granted(given/gifted) by God for them to not only believe upon Him, but to also suffer for Him. Suffering is just as much a gift as believing is.

I hope I don’t end up derailing this much needed thread.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

They are making some rather dubious claims about God and does so as they impugn His holiness. They think God has to offer salvation to each and every person whoever lived or He is...well..."He just ain't playing fair." Trust me, fairness is not what they want from God. Fairness from Him would be casting every blasted one of us into hell. That's fair. I don't want fairness, I want mercy and grace.

Good point SG. I think they see they are talking to saved sinners like us and we are more or less equal one to another. They see my flaws and defects, and conclude because God has chosen to work through such earthen vessels, that they wrongly presume they can speak in profane denigration of our Holy God...like those in psalm50:21-23...they are in danger

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

How many quote Philippians 1:29, yet don’t truly grasp it? It has been granted(given/gifted) by God for them to not only believe upon Him, but to also suffer for Him. Suffering is just as much a gift as believing is.

I hope I don’t end up derailing this much needed thread.

Not at all...your thinking is solid and helpful to any who take the time to look at the verses you offer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Good point SG. I think they see they are talking to saved sinners like us and we are more or less equal one to another. They see my flaws and defects, and conclude because God has chosen to work through such earthen vessels, that they wrongly presume they can speak in profane denigration of our Holy God...like those in psalm50:21-23...they are in danger

I see election as far back as Genesis 3:15. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” We know that the true Seed is the Christ. However, those who God unconditionally elected are part of this Seed. Both elected Jews and Gentiles are part of this Seed. This doesn’t take effect in time, meaning they become the seed of this Seed when they do something...i.e...exercise faith and repentance. They exercise these gifts because they are part of this seed from before time began.

At no time were the seed of the woman(talking about those unconditionally elected and not the Christ here) part of the seed of the devil. Just like at no time were the sheep goats. One doesn’t morph from a sheep to a goat and vice versa.

 

[friend of]

no he does not
when jesus was dying on the cross, How were those who died in South America , or Alaska drawn to someone they never heard of

John 12:32

Jesus says otherwise.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The great blessing if the teaching of unconditional election is a great blessing to all saints throughout time.
If Jesus was not the mediator and surety from before the creation of the world, not one sinner would be saved anywhere at any time. Not one. Zero,nada.
If God had not had mercy on a multitude of sinners,electing each of them there would be no one saved as no one seeks God, no not one.psalm14:1-3,

I disagree that God provided a savior before he created Creation. I agree he provided a savior before the founding(foundation) of the world, which means before Adam and Eve produced offspring.

God created humans “in his image” by giving them the ability to reflect his personality and qualities. (Ge 1:26, 27) However, when the first humans, Adam and Eve, disobeyed God’s command (Ge 2:15-17; 3:1-6), they came short of reflecting the glory of God, including his glorious qualities. Since all of Adam’s offspring have inherited sin and its consequence, death, every member of the human family falls short of properly reflecting God’s lofty qualities.

 

[Jun2u]

According to Calvinistic theory Unconditional Election is a Bible principle. Therefore every person within THE ELECT NATION OF ISRAEL should have been saved by IRRESISTIBLE GRACE having received the GIFT OF FAITH.

Israel was not elected for any good in them (as Scripture teaches), so why were they not ALL elected unconditionally for salvation?
Because Unconditional Election is a bogus man-made doctrine.
Some people just don't like giving up their bogus doctrines. And sure, you can make any Scripture pirouette to suit your doctrines. No surprise. But you failed to actually address the issue presented. All of Israel was already elected. So why was all Israel not TOTALLY SAVED?

On another thread, you were accused of not comprehending Scripture and this subject of Unconditional Election is a classic example.

It’s true, Ancient Israel was highly privileged by God but to what purpose? To be elected to salvation? Absolutely not! There is a remnant chosen by grace from every nation of the world including Ancient Israel.

The purpose of God for choosing Ancient Israel is NOT to show they were elected unconditionally to salvation, rather they were highly privileged to be the nation to be the bearer of the Gospel into the world. It is likened as when Jesus acclaimed there is no greater prophet than John the Baptist. Why? In the sense that John had the privilege to introduce Jesus to the world.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Earburner]

After rotting for 4 days?

You said it was a miracle, and I agreed.

 

[Earburner]

Yet we read of eternal torment for the wicked.

First and foremost, the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. A fictitious story told to deliver a single truth.
I assume you are forming your doctrine of an eternal soul from the following, of which hints at nothing of the sort:
Rev. 14[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
1. Tormented with [by] fire and brimstone": is when one who is of flesh and is unsaved, is found standing in the presence of Jesus and the Holy angels, upon His glorious return.
Only God's Fire is eternal.

2. "The smoke of...": is symbolic of the effect of their torment. The effect of being burnt up and eternally dead shall be forever and ever. Nowhere does it say that their being tormented is forever and ever!

3. "No rest day nor night": is depicting time on earth and not eternity. All of such will be in torment, during Christ's Glorious return in flaming fire, and shall be continually in torment, as long as they have physical life.
.
Rev. 20[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

4. The fleshly unsaved "are" destroyed in the LoF. The Devil [who is not fleshly] shall suffer being tormented forever and ever. Not any man.
.
4

 

[Enoch111]

It’s true, Ancient Israel was highly privileged by God but to what purpose? To be elected to salvation? Absolutely not!

And what -- pray tell -- is God's ultimate desire for human beings if not for salvation? (1 Tim 2:4) That is precisely why Christ came to Israel, and even had His forerunner John the Baptist point Him out as the Lamb of God.

The BOGUS doctrine of Unconditional Election states that God predestines some for salvation (eternal life) and others for damnation. However since Israel was already an ELECT NATION in every sense of the word (as Paul notes in Romans 9), and not for anything good in them (unconditionally), then by every logical reason, every Jew should have been saved (if Calvinism was really true).

But since the majority of Jews rejected their true Messiah, that is incontrovertible proof that Unconditional Election is TOTAL NONSENSE.

Furthermore, the Bible makes it crystal clear that election (predestination) is (1) according to Divine Foreknowledge, and (2) it is the guarantee of the ultimate perfection and glorification of every saint who has been justified by grace through faith (Rom 8:29,30).

God offers salvation to whosoever will take of the Water of Life freely. God offers salvation to the whole world of humanity since Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Therefore God would be violating His own character and His Gospel if He then elected some for salvation and others for damnation. But Calvinists hate this passage, since it contradicts their false doctrines: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:16,17)

 

[Earburner]

Hello EB,
GOD not only elects the individuals who make up those described as everyone believing , but He graciously in love and mercy clothes them supplying proper wedding garment.
The Spirit quickened all such persons enabling them to repent and believe.

.
That "election" takes place ONLY when we enter into HIS Covenant. Prior to that, all are called.

Evidently you do not agree that the Grace of God's calling, for us to receive His free Gift of Eternal life, is to everyone (whosoever), and that WE ALL are invited, and that all can and should come to Him through faith in Jesus. John 3:16-18; 2 Peter 3:9.
Coming to the knowledge of repentance towards God is NOT the Gift of His salvation.
.
For example: anyone can answer a phone call, and then not "partake" in the conversation.
Repentance (turning towards God) does not grant us the promise of becoming a "partaker of the divine nature".
He invites (calls) all in John 3:16, but then we must ASK- Luke 11:13, in order to enter into HIS covenant.
.
If we do not, then Rom. 8:9 is the results, of which is nothing more than one remaining in the state of being "condemned already". John 3:18

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You are correct in saying it is a people group for sure. However notice it is All of God who grants repentance and faith, see it? God grants repentance to the nation's, not Israel only anymore, those believers scattered worldwide, each one God grants repentance to..the word grants is from the same root, graced to them, here and in Philipians 1:29

God never grants repentance to "the nations". As a group, "the nations" are a bad lot. Satan goes out to deceive "the nations" once more at the end of the Millennial Kingdom and "why do the nations rage?" are among pungent reminders that God does not look favorably on "the nations". Faith and salvation have always been seen in individuals--thus the "Hall of Faith" from Hebrews 11. The Church is a holy nation (1 Peter 2:9) but it is comprised of individuals drawn out from every "tribe, and language and people and nation" (Revelation 5:9). The "nations" surrounding Israel have always sought to kill her--it is a supernatural hatred from the one who rules the pit. And it is still that way today. But, God will redeem "her" as the holy nation "she" was meant to be--"the wife of Yahweh". Once the full number of Gentiles has been taken into the Church and the Church is then taken to heaven, Our Lord will defeat all of His enemies and also the enemies of Israel, breathing His life into "her" and granting her the physical Kingdom for which Israel has always longed. That too will fail--as one last demonstration that mortal man, apart from God, can do nothing. And then the Father and the Lamb will bring the Bride of Christ and the "wife" of Yahweh together to be the one people of God, throughout eternity in the New Jerusalem. Heaven come to earth. Amen?

 

[justbyfaith]

That "election" takes place ONLY when we enter into HIS Covenant. Prior to that, all are called.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So, are you saying that you believe that all are predestinated unto salvation? Because here, it seems to say that no one is called apart from being predestinated; and therefore, if all are called, then all were predestinated beforehand.

 

[Earburner]

The OP speaks about unconditional election, not salvation. Yes, all who were unconditionally elected will be saved, but unconditional election took place before God said, “Let there be light.”

Man had no say in who and why God unconditionally elected those He chose. However, I agree that faith and repentance from us is required when we are saved, yet both are gifts of, and from, God.

Repentance saves no one. Many turn towards God, but never enter into HIS covenant through His Son Rom. 8:9.
All of such who neglect to do so, remain to be "condemned already"