Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"justbyfaith,

[God is not a God who arbitrarily chooses some for salvation and condemns the rest.]

God does not arbitrarily. He elects a multitude of Condemned sinners in His perfect wisdom. He passes over other condemned sinners and allows them to go to a just judgment.

[In Calvinism, God by default chooses certain people out to be condemned to the lake of fire.]
You like some traditionalists are part of the blame God for man's sin crowd. Man is responsible for His own sin and condemnation

[They don't have a choice in the matter; they can rightly blame God for their condemnation.]
They have a choice...they choose to love their sin instead of God
[In the truth of Christianity, the Lord offers to the (every) sinner salvation from sin;]
nonsense.Multitudes have lived and died without hearing the gospel
[and if or when he rejects that salvation, he alone is responsible for his condemnation.]
This is a clear denial that Adam died in the fall. that is foundational biblical truth. you deny this you cannot present the biblical gospel
[I choose to believe in a God that is good as the truth of Christianity proclaims, in opposition to the teachings of Calvinism.]
You choose to invent an idol, a god who does what you want him to do. If that was not bad enough, you then post against the teaching of the biblical God.

[I choose to vindicate God concerning the claims of Calvinistic teaching.]

You choose to remain ignorant of Divine truth and oppose the historic church. That is your choice my friend

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Agreed. The Lord draws all men to Himself.

no he does not
when jesus was dying on the cross, How were those who died in South America , or Alaska drawn to someone they never heard of

 

[justbyfaith]

[In the truth of Christianity, the Lord offers to the (every) sinner salvation from sin;]
nonsense.Multitudes have lived and died without hearing the gospel

In Romans 1, the light of creation is established. If someone obeys the light of creation, believing in God, Romans 2 establishes the light of conscience. If they obey the light of conscience, understanding that they are a sinner, Romans 3 establishes the light of Christ. Therefore every man is responsible for his own condition. All men are without excuse because of the light of creation.

[and if or when he rejects that salvation, he alone is responsible for his condemnation.]
This is a clear denial that Adam died in the fall. that is foundational biblical truth. you deny this you cannot present the biblical gospel

If the man who rejects God is not responsible for his own condemnation, then who is? In Calvinism, it is the Lord (God) who is responsible. Therefore man can rightly blame God for his condemnation if God is the god of Calvinism.

no he does not

Yes he does, John 12:32, 2 Corinthians 3:12.

 

[justbyfaith]

You choose to invent an idol, a god who does what you want him to do. If that was not bad enough, you then post against the teaching of the biblical God.

I believe in the God I believe in as the result of studying the Bible. The god of Calvinism does not in any way resemble the God of the Bible; he is a cosmic monster.

You choose to remain ignorant of Divine truth and oppose the historic church. That is your choice my friend

Calvinistic teaching is not the teaching of the historic church. But when it suits you to condemn me, that is when you are willing to admit that I have a choice.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,
[I believe in the God I believe in as the result of studying the Bible. The god of Calvinism does not in any way resemble the God of the Bible; he is a cosmic monster.]

If salvation comes to your house, you will not speak of God in such a profane manner.

[Calvinistic teaching is not the teaching of the historic church. But when it suits you to condemn me, that is when you are willing to admit that I have a choice.]
Your own posts, calling God a monster is what condemns you. All men have choices to make, but their will is not free.

 

[justbyfaith]

[God is not a God who arbitrarily chooses some for salvation and condemns the rest.]

God does not arbitrarily. He elects a multitude of Condemned sinners in His perfect wisdom. He passes over other condemned sinners and allows them to go to a just judgment.

He put the tree in the garden so he could have an excuse to fry them for existing.

[In Calvinism, God by default chooses certain people out to be condemned to the lake of fire.]
You like some traditionalists are part of the blame God for man's sin crowd. Man is responsible for His own sin and condemnation

So you are saying man has a choice in the matter of whether he is saved or not. You can't have it both ways.

[They don't have a choice in the matter; they can rightly blame God for their condemnation.]
They have a choice...they choose to love their sin instead of God

At least you admit that man has a choice. You are not like most Calvinists in this belief.

So...you are saying that they do not have to be regenerated before they can have saving faith?

You believe that man can choose to put his faith in Christ when he hears the gospel message?

 

[SovereignGrace]

no he does not
when jesus was dying on the cross, How were those who died in South America , or Alaska drawn to someone they never heard of

You have to take into account who you're debating. They are what I call 'self-starters'. Its arrogance and pride at its apex. They'll say, "I can repent, so I don't need God to do that for me." And also, I don't need the gift of faith, as I already have it, all I need to do is use it like the 'key meet door' analogy."

They don't get it that fallen man's will is not free, but bound in sin and to Satan. Verses such as This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.[John 3:19-20] and For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.[Romans 1:18-19] just SWOOOSH!!! over their heads. In both places this shows fallen man not wanting anything to do with God, and that which they know, in their unrighteousness, they suppress it.

Without God electing some, none would be saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith,
[I believe in the God I believe in as the result of studying the Bible. The god of Calvinism does not in any way resemble the God of the Bible; he is a cosmic monster.]

If salvation comes to your house, you will not speak of God in such a profane manner.

I am not speaking of God in a profane manner, I am speaking of your false god (the god of Calvinism) in a profane manner. And I have been very radically saved, thank you very much!

[Calvinistic teaching is not the teaching of the historic church. But when it suits you to condemn me, that is when you are willing to admit that I have a choice.]
Your own posts, calling God a monster is what condemns you. All men have choices to make, but their will is not free.

I have not called the true God a monster in the slightest, I have called the monster god of Calvinism what he truly is...

What condemns you is believing in a monster god who arbitrarily puts people into the lake of fire for no apparent reason, and then claims it is justice because their ancestor ate a piece of fruit.

 

[SovereignGrace]

justbyfaith,
[I believe in the God I believe in as the result of studying the Bible. The god of Calvinism does not in any way resemble the God of the Bible; he is a cosmic monster.]

If salvation comes to your house, you will not speak of God in such a profane manner.

[Calvinistic teaching is not the teaching of the historic church. But when it suits you to condemn me, that is when you are willing to admit that I have a choice.]
Your own posts, calling God a monster is what condemns you. All men have choices to make, but their will is not free.

They are making some rather dubious claims about God and does so as they impugn His holiness. They think God has to offer salvation to each and every person whoever lived or He is...well..."He just ain't playing fair." Trust me, fairness is not what they want from God. Fairness from Him would be casting every blasted one of us into hell. That's fair. I don't want fairness, I want mercy and grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

They are making some rather dubious claims about God and does so as they impugn His holiness. They think God has to offer salvation to each and every person whoever lived or He is...well..."He just ain't playing fair." Trust me, fairness is not what they want from God. Fairness from Him would be casting every blasted one of us into hell. That's fair. I don't want fairness, I want mercy and grace.

I want mercy and grace too...and I also have it because I have confessed with my mouth the Lord Jesus believing that God hath raised him from the dead.

I know that Jesus did not cast me out when I came to Him, because of John 6:37b.

Calvinism appears to me to teach that if a person comes to the Lord for salvation but "is not one of His elect", that Jesus will cast them out...this is not scriptural teaching.

The word of God says that Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...

Now please tell me whether as a Calvinist you believe this.

What if someone calls upon the name of the Lord but is not one of the elect? Is the promise null and void?

I would answer that the person who has called upon the name of the Lord is one of the elect by evidence of the fact that they called upon the name of the Lord...but what do you say?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I want mercy and grace too...and I also have it because I have confessed with my mouth the Lord Jesus believing that God hath raised him from the dead.

I know that Jesus did not cast me out when I came to Him, because of John 6:37b.

Calvinism appears to me to teach that if a person comes to the Lord for salvation but "is not one of His elect", that Jesus will cast them out...this is not scriptural teaching.

The word of God says that Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...

Now please tell me whether as a Calvinist you believe this.

What if someone calls upon the name of the Lord but is not one of the elect? Is the promise null and void?

I would answer that the person who has called upon the name of the Lord is one of the elect by evidence of the fact that they called upon the name of the Lord...but what do you say?

Here's the problem with your thinking. You are thinking that fallen man, in his fallen condition, is looking for a way into God's kingdom. That could NOT be further from the truth. Fallen man hates God in his fallen state. Read Romans 8:5-9. They are at enmity(ill-will towards) with God. They are hostile towards God. If a man is truly seeking God, it is God working within that person, drawing him to Himself. The lost person would no more search for God and serve Him that a Jew during the Holocaust would seek Hitler to praise him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Its arrogance and pride at its apex. They'll say, "I can repent, so I don't need God to do that for me." And also, I don't need the gift of faith, as I already have it,

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord, Romans 10:17.

We definitely need the gift of faith; for it is by faith that we have access into this grace wherein we stand.

Without God electing some, none would be saved.

I suppose that I can just rest in the fact that God has elected me then; since I have called upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

Because the Bible says, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved; and I know that I can take the Lord at His word.

I also know that the Lord has placed these things in a specific order in His word, which Calvinistic teachings reverse.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord, Romans 10:17.

We definitely need the gift of faith; for it is by faith that we have access into this grace wherein we stand.

Romans 10:17 is proof positive that faith is not innate in fallen man. If it was, then hearing the word would not bring faith.

I suppose that I can just rest in the fact that God has elected me then; since I have called upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

Rest in the fact that the Christ died for you. Yes, we need to rejoice in God saving us, but it was the Christ dying for us that procured our salvation. Election took place before God said 'Let there be light', but our salvation takes place in time.

Because the Bible says, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved; and I know that I can take the Lord at His word.

I also know that the Lord has placed these things in a specific order in His word, which Calvinistic teachings reverse.

But who calls upon the Lord? We must see that it is God who is drawing the lost to Himself through the Christ. He plainly stated "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."[John 6:37] You can take it to the bank that if someone is truly seeking the Christ, they will find Him. Yet, not everyone was given to Him by the Father. All the Father gave Him, He died for[John 10:11, John 10:15, Ephesians 5:25], and will save them.

 

[Earburner]

The great blessing if the teaching of unconditional election is a great blessing to all saints throughout time.
If Jesus was not the mediator and surety from before the creation of the world, not one sinner would be saved anywhere at any time. Not one. Zero,nada.
If God had not had mercy on a multitude of sinners,electing each of them there would be no one saved as no one seeks God, no not one.psalm14:1-3,

Jesus Himself clearly points out that our salvation is NOT confirmed (sealed) by God the Father until we act in repentance towards God, through faith in His Son.
John 3[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
.
Mat. 22[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen [confirmed, sealed].
.
Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Dave L]

Why didn't Jesus remove the graveclothes which still bound Lazarus instead of saying what He did?

"And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:44

Even though Jesus called the man out of the grave, the man was still bound by the clothing of death. Someone needed to remove that clothing other than Jesus!

He didn't want him running around naked?

 

[Dave L]

He was not in heaven. This was still in the time period before Jesus "led captivity captive."

So at that time, Lazarus was located in Abraham's bosom.

1.16 κόλπος Ἀβραάμ: (an idiom, literally ‘Abraham’s bosom’) the heavenly abode, with the implication of close interpersonal relations—‘Abraham’s bosom, heaven.’ ἀπενεχθῆναι αὐτὸν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ‘he was borne by angels to Abraham’s bosom’ or ‘… heaven’ Lk 16:22.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 4). New York: United Bible Societies.

 

[Dave L]

Accepting a gift is not a work. But you must accept the gift to be saved.

If you are hungry and someone offers you a sandwich, what work did you do when you accept it?

Grace feeds people intravenously who are in comas and cannot eat.

 

[Dave L]

That is nonsense. Lazarus was not resurrected from the dead, he was resuscitated.

You only die once. True death is when the spirit leaves the body. Lazarus did not experience true death.

So Jesus didn't perform a miracle? Lazarus was rotting away after 4 days in the heat.

 

[Dave L]

But those who repent are no longer dead in sin.

You cannot repent unless you are first alive to God.

 

[Earburner]

So Jesus didn't perform a miracle? Lazarus was rotting away after 4 days in the heat.

Correct! The miracle is, he was resuscitated back to physical life, restored in the fulness of his faculties.