Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Enoch111]

The OP speaks about unconditional election, not salvation.

You should know your doctrine better. Unconditional election is for salvation according to the Westminster Confession. But it is blatantly FALSE in that all of Israel -- every Jew -- was not unconditionally elected for salvation, when salvation is the ultimate goal of the Gospel.

According to TULIP, Limited Atonement leads to Unconditional Election, which leads to Irresistible Grace, which leads to the so-called "gift of faith".

So why was every Jew not given this Calvinistic treatment when there was absolutely every reason for them to be saved? Indeed eight solid reasons why every Jew should have been saved through irresistible grace.

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth [1] the adoption, and [2] the glory, and [3] the covenants, and [4] the giving of the law, and [5] the service of God, and [6] the promises; [7] Whose are the fathers, and [8] of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:4,5)

And the answer should be obvious. But you won't give up your False Gospel. That would be traumatic.

 

[Earburner]

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So, are you saying that you believe that all are predestinated unto salvation? Because here, it seems to say that no one is called apart from being predestinated; and therefore, if all are called, then all were predestinated beforehand.

No. Through Jesus, all are predestined to be called to salvation! Only the sacrificial death of God the Son was predestined! Therefore, in God's foreknowledge, He knows who is saved.
However, the foreknowledge of God is not predestination.
Eph. 1[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[6] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
[7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[8] Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

 

[SovereignGrace]

Repentance saves no one. Many turn towards God, but never enter into HIS covenant through His Son Rom. 8:9.
All of such who neglect to do so, remain to be "condemned already"

Whoa, whoa WHOA!!! Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 disagrees with you. Also throw in The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.[Revelation 9:20-21] And also I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.2 Corinthians 12:21]

Yes, repentance saves, as without it, none can, or will, be saved.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"friend of

John 12:32

[Jesus says otherwise.]

Not at all. However you have to not only quote the verse, but you need to understand what it is saying, which looks as if it has escaped you so far.



Enoch111,
[The BOGUS doctrine of Unconditional Election states that God predestines some for salvation (eternal life) and others for damnation. However since Israel was already an ELECT NATION in every sense of the word (as Paul notes in Romans 9), and not for anything good in them (unconditionally), then by every logical reason, every Jew should have been saved (if Calvinism was really true).

But since the majority of Jews rejected their true Messiah, that is incontrovertible proof that Unconditional Election is TOTAL NONSENSE.

Furthermore, the Bible makes it crystal clear that election (predestination) is (1) according to Divine Foreknowledge, and (2) it is the guarantee of the ultimate perfection and glorification of every saint who has been justified by grace through faith (Rom 8:29,30).]

Enoch remains wilfully ignorant of Divine truth with another off topic post, repeating his failed ideas from his dubious cult thread. repeating the erros on every thread does not turn them into truth


Lady Crosstalk,

[God NEVER grants repentance to "the nations"]

He already has. Many nations have Christian churches in them
[As a group]
No ..as individuals in those nations.,

The rest of this off topic post was deleted to spare the readers having to see it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

"friend of

John 12:32

[Jesus says otherwise.]

Not at all. However you have to not only quote the verse, but you need to understand what it is saying, which looks as if it has escaped you so far.



Enoch111,
[The BOGUS doctrine of Unconditional Election states that God predestines some for salvation (eternal life) and others for damnation. However since Israel was already an ELECT NATION in every sense of the word (as Paul notes in Romans 9), and not for anything good in them (unconditionally), then by every logical reason, every Jew should have been saved (if Calvinism was really true).

But since the majority of Jews rejected their true Messiah, that is incontrovertible proof that Unconditional Election is TOTAL NONSENSE.

Furthermore, the Bible makes it crystal clear that election (predestination) is (1) according to Divine Foreknowledge, and (2) it is the guarantee of the ultimate perfection and glorification of every saint who has been justified by grace through faith (Rom 8:29,30).]

Enoch remains wilfully ignorant of Divine truth with another off topic post, repeating his failed ideas from his dubious cult thread. repeating the erros on every thread does not turn them into truth


Lady Crosstalk,

[God NEVER grants repentance to "the nations"]

He already has. Many nations have Christian churches in them
[As a group]
No ..as individuals in those nations.,

The rest of this off topic post was deleted to spare the readers having to see it.

Notice how they approach and handle the scriptures in a flippant manner. They post a verse hither and yon and "ta da!" No exegesis whatsoever.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Earburne

[No. Through Jesus, all are predestined to be called to salvation! Only the sacrificial death of God the Son was predestined! Therefore, in God's foreknowledge, He knows who is saved.
However, the foreknowledge of God is not predestination]
.
Your whole post is wrong from start to finish. ALL are not predestined to be called to salvation . That fabrication is a complete falsehood and violation of most of scripture.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Notice how they approach and handle the scriptures in a flippant manner. They post a verse hither and yon and "ta da!" No exegesis whatsoever.

When people oppose scripture they become quickly exposed. Enoch repeats his error on every thread as if he is proud of it, LC likes his posts and adds her misguided ideas.
Core error does a few drive by posts, but notice they flee when answered.
It looks like P4t might be responsible for not correcting these errors before they spread. He has slacked off and they are growing like fungus

 

[Windmillcharge]

I will respond to this statement, however, because I have liberty to do so:



So, you never called on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth for salvation?

Tell me how does an infatuated slave gain release from there obcession with there master and seek a new master?

How many demon possessed people in the NT gained freedom from those who possessed them?

Do you really think the devil lets his slaves go because the devouted slave on a whim wants to leave him?

 

[Dave L]

First and foremost, the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. A fictitious story told to deliver a single truth.
I assume you are forming your doctrine of an eternal soul from the following, of which hints at nothing of the sort:
Rev. 14[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
1. Tormented with [by] fire and brimstone": is when one who is of flesh and is unsaved, is found standing in the presence of Jesus and the Holy angels, upon His glorious return.
Only God's Fire is eternal.

2. "The smoke of...": is symbolic of the effect of their torment. The effect of being burnt up and eternally dead shall be forever and ever. Nowhere does it say that their being tormented is forever and ever!

3. "No rest day nor night": is depicting time on earth and not eternity. All of such will be in torment, during Christ's Glorious return in flaming fire, and shall be continually in torment, as long as they have physical life.
.
Rev. 20[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

4. The fleshly unsaved "are" destroyed in the LoF. The Devil [who is not fleshly] shall suffer being tormented forever and ever. Not any man.
.
4

In the bigger picture, God uses eternal torment of the wicked to measure his grace. Eternal punishment shows how wicked we are and what we deserve. We have no concept of the grace God lavished on us apart the eternal wrath.

 

[Earburner]

Whoa, whoa WHOA!!! Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 disagrees with you. Also throw in The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.[Revelation 9:20-21] And also I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.2 Corinthians 12:21]

Yes, repentance saves, as without it, none can, or will, be saved.

Which sin is the worst?
Betrayal, denial or neglect?

1. Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus to death.
Mat. 27:1-5
2. Peter denied knowing of Jesus three times.
Mat. 26:69-75
3. Many today neglect to receive the Holy Spirit of God.
Luke 11:13; Rom. 8:9
.
Judas Iscariot repented, but took his own life before Pentecost, of which made him to be unavailable to receive the Holy Spirit of God. His condemnation to eternal death was due to neglect, not betrayal.
.
Peter however, repented and remained alive upto Pentecost, and did receive the Holy Spirit of God.
.
Ever since Pentecost, there are many who profess to be Christian, but have neglected to receive the Holy Spirit of God.
.
According to Rom. 8:9, what is the requirement, for our assurance of salvation, that we will not end up as being "none of His"?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Which sin is the worst?
Betrayal, denial or neglect?

1. Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus to death.
Mat. 27:1-5
2. Peter denied knowing of Jesus three times.
Mat. 26:69-75
3. Many today neglect to receive the Holy Spirit of God.
Luke 11:13; Rom. 8:9
.
Judas Iscariot repented, but took his own life before Pentecost, of which made him to be unavailable to receive the Holy Spirit of God. His condemnation to eternal death was due to neglect, not betrayal.
.
Peter however, repented and remained alive upto Pentecost, and did receive the Holy Spirit of God.
.
Ever since Pentecost, there are many who profess to be Christian, but have neglected to receive the Holy Spirit of God.
.
According to Rom. 8:9, what is the requirement, for our assurance of salvation, that we will not end up as being "none of His"?

None of this takes away Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, 2 Corinthians 12:21 and Revelation 9:20-21. There’s a different Greek word used in Matthew 27:3. Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 use metanoeō means to change your mind. Judas repented Himself, he felt remorse, but did not repent towards God. Just like it said Simon Magus believed and was baptized, but later on wanted to buy the gifts of the Spirit, showing his belief was in vain. Judas repented, but it was in vain, as he didn’t have a change of mind towards God.

 

[Earburner]

In the bigger picture, God uses eternal torment of the wicked to measure his grace. Eternal punishment shows how wicked we are and what we deserve. We have no concept of the grace God lavished on us apart the eternal wrath.

God's grace is measured by His Love. He "gave" to the undeserving, the sacrifice of His Son, so that we may inherit HIS eternal life.
There is no such thing as a "good" sinner or a "bad" sinner. You either have the Free Gift of His Righteousness (the Holy Spirit of God), or you don't.
Therefore, if one does not have eternal life, they cannot go on existing after physical death.
.
Eternal punish-ment, yes!
Eternal punish-ing, no!

 

[Earburner]

None of this takes away Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, 2 Corinthians 12:21 and Revelation 9:20-21. There’s a different Greek word used in Matthew 27:3. Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 use metanoeō means to change your mind. Judas repented Himself, he felt remorse, but did not repent towards God. Just like it said Simon Magus believed and was baptized, but later on wanted to buy the gifts of the Spirit, showing his belief was in vain. Judas repented, but it was in vain, as he didn’t have a change of mind towards God.

Yes "metaneo" is repentance towards God, through his Son. It is the ONLY form of repentance that is acceptable to God!
Repentance from sin only is "metanoia", and that form of repentance alone, is not acceptable to God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes "metaneo" is repentance towards God, through his Son. It is the ONLY form of repentance that is acceptable to God!
Repentance from sin only is "metanoia", and that form of repentance alone, is not acceptable to God.

If one repents towards God, they automatically repent of (their) sins. As Dr. William Mounce said, repentance is not just a change of mind, but in this change of mind, it brings action. If you repent towards God, you also repent of your sins.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes "metaneo" is repentance towards God, through his Son. It is the ONLY form of repentance that is acceptable to God!
Repentance from sin only is "metanoia", and that form of repentance alone, is not acceptable to God.

Talking about metanoia and metanoeo...

“Both noun and verb denote a radical, moral turn of the whole person from sin to God” (Mounce’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words).

 

[Dave L]

God's grace is measured by His Love. He "gave" to the undeserving, the sacrifice of His Son, so that we may inherit HIS eternal life.
There is no such thing as a "good" sinner or a "bad" sinner. You either have the Free Gift of His Righteousness (the Holy Spirit of God), or you don't.
Therefore, if one does not have eternal life, they cannot go on existing after physical death.
.
Eternal punish-ment, yes!
Eternal punish-ing, no!

Love is not measurable unless contrasted with hate. Nor is grace possible without sin.

 

[Mjh29]

Repentance saves no one. Many turn towards God, but never enter into HIS covenant through His Son Rom. 8:9.
All of such who neglect to do so, remain to be "condemned already"

So, what you are saying is that WE have to save ourselves; it is not even enough if we repent: We must do something on top of that!

This isn't even Arminianism.... this is Pelagianism!

 

[SovereignGrace]

So, what you are saying is that WE have to save ourselves; it is not even enough if we repent: We must do something on top of that!

This isn't even Arminianism.... this is Pelagianism!

Arminianism is pretty much dead, and the default position now is Pelagianism.

 

[Mjh29]

Arminianism is pretty much dead, and the default position now is Pelagianism.

Sad but true. We need another Reformation!

 

[Earburner]

None of this takes away Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, 2 Corinthians 12:21 and Revelation 9:20-21. There’s a different Greek word used in Matthew 27:3. Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 use metanoeō means to change your mind. Judas repented Himself, he felt remorse, but did not repent towards God. Just like it said Simon Magus believed and was baptized, but later on wanted to buy the gifts of the Spirit, showing his belief was in vain. Judas repented, but it was in vain, as he didn’t have a change of mind towards God.

The conclusion is, as I previously said:
Ever since Pentecost, there are many who profess to be Christian, but have neglected to receive the Holy Spirit of God.
.
According to Rom. 8:9, what is the requirement, for our assurance of salvation, that we will not end up as being "none of His"?
.
Do you not discern, comprehend the parable of "The Wheat and the Tares" ?