We really CAN'T answer some of these

[Dave L]

Well, I would say that ...and not only ours, but the sins of the whole world
addresses that just fine, and our disagreements prolly center around what these various terms should actually be defined as, "saved, elect, believed" etc. nowhere does the Bible say "believe the lord and you will be saved," etc.

So wadr answer; "the sins of the whole world"
answer; "work to make your calling and election sure"
if any answer

But only believers (already saved according to Jesus) will do this.

 

[Willie T]

But he is a leader of the Christian Recontructionist/ Dominion Theology Movement which has no Biblical basis like I said. The fact that he is married to the daughter of Rushdoony only shows how far in that Movement he is.
They believe Christ will not come back until the world is under God's law according to the Bible. That is not what the Bible teaches, it's the exact opposite actually.

And the CR's can, just as directly as Dispensationalists do, point to Scriptures that hold their doctrine just as well. As I have said on here many times before, the Bible seems to be written so that people reading it will find the particular, and specific, God they are looking for. Preconceived expectations produce our anticipated results.

All the while, each one is screaming at the other, "There is only ONE Truth... and I have found it!...… NOT YOU!... or THEM, or anyone else!"

 

[Nancy]

Here's the challenge I have for all. Produce one direct quote from the gospels or the epistles where anyone taught a temporal physical kingdom.

In Daniel 7:13,14 and vs 27 say's the Kingdom is under heaven.
Jeremiah 23:5–8
5 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’

g“Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’ 1 had driven them.’ Then they shall dwell in their own land.”

Jesus feet will actually touch the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:4, 9)
Jesus will execute justice and judgement on the Earth. Jeremiah 23:5-8.

 

[Dave L]

In Daniel 7:13,14 and vs 27 say's the Kingdom is under heaven.
Jeremiah 23:5–8
5 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’

g“Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’ 1 had driven them.’ Then they shall dwell in their own land.”

Jesus feet will actually touch the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:4, 9)
Jesus will execute justice and judgement on the Earth. Jeremiah 23:5-8.

This speaks of now, Christ's return and about the new heavens and earth. The kingdom is eternal, not 1000 years long.

 

[Nancy]

This speaks of now, Christ's return and about the new heavens and earth. The kingdom is eternal, not 1000 years long.

I hardly think Jesus is handing out justice and judgement in this present world. Kind of assuming He will be ruling in a perfect manner. How can you think He is already ruling in this world? It's a horrible world because it is still run by men. IMHO. ♥

 

[bbyrd009]

Did I say anything about 'irrelevant'?

well no, but then if God is lying to you I wouldn't expect you to anyway, did I say anything about you saying anything anyway, do you think we all worship you too? Are you the only one here still not getting that those questions are completely irrelevant, except to death More Abundantly? I mean don't get me wrong I'm glad you're allowed to post, so that the truth is made that much more apparent by contrast, ok, but what is this question even about Stranger? If you did say anything about "irrelevant" it would immediately become relevant anyway I guess, so I'm not following your intent here sorry

 

[Stranger]

Here's the challenge I have for all. Produce one direct quote from the gospels or the epistles where anyone taught a temporal physical kingdom.

(Rev. 20:1-7)

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I hardly think Jesus is handing out justice and judgement in this present world. Kind of assuming He will be ruling in a perfect manner. How can you think He is already ruling in this world? It's a horrible world because it is still run by men. IMHO. ♥

We are plainly told to leave it I guess Nancy right

If you don't have it pressed down, shaken together, running over right now
then you don't have it yet I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

But only believers (already saved according to Jesus) will do this.

I guess that won't serve those who are calling themselves Believers much though, will it? Pretty sure the two groups are mutually exclusive

 

[Willie T]

Nancy,
Jesus pretty plainly said The Kingdom was right there with them and in them...…. Yet Satan-Followers managed to murder Him. Don't you ever feel God with you? Still, we want to say that He is helpless in this earth because Satan runs it?

Ever wonder WHY Satan was able to murder Jesus? The Bible tells us it was part of God's plan from before the Earth was formed. Sounds to me like God is running things.

 

[Dave L]

I guess that won't serve those who are calling themselves Believers much though, will it? Pretty sure the two groups are mutually exclusive

Both groups are saved by grace the same way. The free willers are confused though, thinking their choice saved them. But their choice stemmed from their believing (proof of salvation), or they would not have chosen to believe, as redundant as it might be.

 

[Willie T]

Both groups are saved by grace the same way. The free willers are confused though, thinking their choice saved them. But their choice stemmed from their believing (proof of salvation), or they would not have chosen to believe, as redundant as it might be.

Acts 26:28 kind of seems to twist the road a little for your simple path.

Acts 26:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Why would Paul be trying to "persuade" people the way he did if they were already predestined to either believe, or not to believe?

 

[Dave L]

I hardly think Jesus is handing out justice and judgement in this present world. Kind of assuming He will be ruling in a perfect manner. How can you think He is already ruling in this world? It's a horrible world because it is still run by men. IMHO. ♥

First realize that ALL the promises of God are yes in Jesus. This means they are NO to the broken off unbelievers. Based on this you need to reconsider that Pharisaic interpretations of the OT which is popular today. Also, Jesus refuted any physical kingdom ideas teaching a spiritual kingdom only. This means many of the literal prophecies are actually symbols of a greater reality. More to follow if interested.

 

[Dave L]

Acts 26:28 kind of seems to twist the road a little for your simple path.

Acts 26:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” (Acts 26:28) = grace withheld.

“And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:” (Acts 18:27) = grace imparted.

 

[Helen]

.

1. Didn't God Hate the Unborn Infant Esau? ( not our word hate..He didn't desire Him)
2. Could Pharaoh Have Repented? ( like Judas , his destiny was not to.)
3. Does God's Absolute Predestination Make Him Unfair? ( fair is not in God's vocabulary)
4. If We Can't Work Our Way INTO Salvation, How Can We Work Our Way OUT? (Good one!!)
5. How Can God GUARANTEE Good for His People Without PREDESTINATING Good? ( Above my head)
6. How Can We Escape the Love of God? ( We can't)
7. If We Can "Fall From Grace," Isn't Christ's Intercession Ineffective? ( Yes)
8. Are We LESS Than Conquerors? ( No)
9. Doesn't God Make "Vessels Fitted for Destruction"? ( too deep for me)
10. When Did God Decide to Give Us Eternal Life? ( before He created Adam)
11. Isn't Our Heavenly Inheritance Fully Guaranteed? ( No, that part is up to us)
12. Aren't Our Good Works Predestined? ( No)
13. Didn't Jesus Deliberately Hide His Message so People Wouldn't Repent?
14. Could Judas Have Refused to Betray Jesus? ( No)
17. Aren't Men Ordained in Advance to Eternal Life? ( Yes)
18. Doesn't God Compel Men to Believe in Jesus? ( Yes, every eye and every knee...)
19. Didn't God Choose Us Long Before We Accepted Him? ( Yes)
20. How Can an Unregenerate Man Accept Christ? ( God accepts him first)
21. Could the Authorities Have Acted Righteously and Released Jesus? ( No)
23. Isn't the Will of God Absolutely Sovereign? ( Yes)
24. Isn't Faith in Christ the Gift of God? ( yes)
25. Did Christ Die for All Men? ( yes)
26. Isn't it Immoral for People to Have Sex with Animals? ( yes)
30. Are We "Once Saved, Always Saved"? (YES)
52. Isn't a "City on a Hill" to be an Example for the World? ( Yes)

 

[Helen]

I'd like to see some of these as New Threads.
I'm getting bored with all the old threads , they go in circles. lol

 

[Willie T]

“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” (Acts 26:28) = grace withheld.

“And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:” (Acts 18:27) = grace imparted.

Why go back to chapter 18 and mention that when it is clear Agrippa was not one of them, at all?

 

[Dave L]

Why go back to chapter 18 and mention that when it is clear Agrippa was not one of them, at all?

Why not?

 

[Willie T]

I'd like to see some of these as New Threads.
I'm getting bored with all the old threads , they go in circles. lol

You would LOVE that full book. It shows how neither side can just say "Yes" or "No" to any of the questions.

 

[Kermos]

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will (KJV)

In order to properly understand Gospel truth, we need to firstly determine the precise meaning of words and phrases. Does "unto the adoption of children" mean the same thing as "justified by grace" (saved) or does it mean something else?

The meaning is well expressed (paraphrased) in the New Living Translation:God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ.

So the question remains? Is adoption the same as justification?

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
Adoption
...snip...
No one is predestined for salvation or damnation.

Here is a page of various Ephesians 1:5 commentary Ephesians 1:5 Commentaries: He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, including Matthew Henry's - which disagrees with Vines. Another that disagrees with Vines is Ellicot's. But, hey, this person agrees but that person disagrees. The important thing is that which the Spirit reveals!

The Apostle Paul's context of using "adoption" in Ephesians 1:5 is clear within the context of the entire epistle. Adoption is being brought into the family of God in God's will by God's grace through the God's gift of belief (Ephesians 2:8), and henceforth being sons of God conforming to the image of Christ, the Son of God!

The sovereignty of man opposes the Sovereignty of God. Man cannot choose Jesus because Jesus said so (John 15:16)! Jesus said the work of God is a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29)! The Sovereignty of God in part can be desribed as salvation is by God's grace for God's glory with the dead, poor, unworthy, wretched person that God chooses/elects being blessed by the Lord Jesus Christ to Life eternal in the power of God which the person can not resist nor desires to resist because the Spirit of the Living God brings about birth, belief, and actions of the person resulting in the scriptural fact that solely by the power of God the desires/will of the person are brought into accord and unity with God's will. Scripture reveals that it matters what people believe because it affects people's eternal destination.

Please see "The Sovereignty of God is true, and the sovereignty of man is false Post (in this thread)".