The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Waiting on him]

Oh God chose Israel most assuredly, but they chose another.
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein

What right did he have making that choice, what about the nations around Israel? Why didn’t they get a choice to be his representatives?

 

[Waiting on him]

Who does he think he is, God???

 

[Waiting on him]

And what about Moses, he WAs perfectly fine hiding out, then he comes along and says,
Take your shoes off?

 

[brakelite]

You fellas don't understand what Israel was chosen for. Nor it seems do you understand what we are chosen for.

 

[Waiting on him]

And what about the Twelve,
You didn’t choose me, I chose you?
It’s inconceivable.

 

[Waiting on him]

You fellas don't understand what Israel was chosen for. Nor it seems do you understand what we are chosen for.

They were chosen of God as an example of the power of the flesh.
So we can all see how that ends.

 

[brakelite]

They were chosen of God as an example of the power of the flesh.
So we can all see how that ends.

SMH. I'm lost for words. You have everything upside down and inside out. I give up.

 

[Waiting on him]

SMH. I'm lost for words. You have everything upside down and inside out. I give up.

What can I say, no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig... it’s still a pig.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't know about you Phoneman, but it seems that those who believe this doctrine are almost happy that most will burn in Hell. And think that God is not powerful enough to show His Glory without arbitrarily creating, intentionally, specific people for Hell...no choice, no chance.
It is a bit disturbing though, to detect a certain glee because of folks being sent to hell. Cold, hopeless, dark doctrine IMHO.

And you’ve shown your MASSIVE misunderstanding of what our beliefs are. Good bye.

 

[Nancy]

It's really sad in your misunderstandings of the Gospel, God and Scripture that you'd make such a low jab, libel, and falsely accuse as you've done.

Mmm...no. There is no libel here, I lived it and studied this doctrine since the early 90's. I experienced it, everything I said about the coldness and glee is TRUTH. I am sorry you do not agree...my guess is that you are an "intellectual"? Calvinism seems to draw them. No warm fuzzy's or real love for one another in the 2 reformed Church's I attended, just snobbery and shunning those who did not meet THEIR standards.
You believe what you guys ALWAYS say to non-Calvinists: "you just do not understand.."
I honestly wish I never heard of such a doctrine as this. I hope that God will give you the grace to be humble enough to see truth.

 

[Nancy]

And you’ve shown your MASSIVE misunderstanding of what our beliefs are. Good bye.

That is your and your cohorts come back ...all. the. time. We just don't understand. What have I got wrong SG? My experiences? My research and talking with pastors? My desire to believe that God is Good and JUST? And, my bible tells me He is. You make it sound like we Armenians diminish the Sovereignty of God...hardly! God GIVES US a gift, free gift yet, you say we should not accept this gift of God because it is works . I'm sorry if I see a lot of arrogance within Calvinistic communities but, just the same...I have. For the record, not everything they teach is wrong, quite the contrary. I have read Piper, Pink, Spurgeon, Stott...and they have some wonderful teachings. But, I will NEVER believe, in light of what Jesus did for us believe that I am still a slave to sin - I/we will always battle this parasite called sin but, we are no longer in bondage to it. We battle the flesh, the world, Satan.
God Bless
nancy

 

[Preacher4Truth]

...Calvinism demands such diabolical reasoning and misconceptions regarding God's character...calling evil (injustice) good.

The above is probably the most baseless and libelous statement I've read on this forum. Frankly it's a lie from the pit of hell itself, but you don't mind that, neither will it stop you.

Now a question, correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't your "Christ" a created being?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Just to clarify things, from the Anti-"Calvinist" perspective on here, for the most part, and from their usual position of libel, a truncated and distorted gospel, and ignorance of facts let's talk about their usage of the term "injustice."

First, their definition and personification of injustice is summed up in Romans 9:20. So, God took care of that for all of us to see.

Secondly, which should then be obvious, they see God as unjust, "unfair" (same thing) and practicing injustice if he damns any soul to hell without giving them some chance to vote and choose themselves out of being spiritually dead (which is impossible, btw) and "into heaven." Note John 6:44; John 6:37; John 6:65; James 1:18; 2 Peter 1:1; John 6:63 &c.

Keep in mind all outside Christ are wicked, hostile toward God, deserving of hell, are owed nothing from God whatsoever. In the Anti-"Calvinist" gospel, they are owed a chance or God is seen as unjust. Yep, again, Romans 9:20 in action.

If man is owed any type of chance to do something to vote themselves in, it is no longer the Gospel of Grace, but of merit, because they've made man as one who is owed something from God. Nope. God is free, owes no person anything, and shows mercy to whom he wills; Romans 9:16; Exodus 33:17-23 and reveals himself, as well as the Son, to whom they will to do so and to none else; Matthew 11:25-30.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

"Phoneman777,

". [Since you refuse the believe the plain Word of God],
No he does believe it.

[For instance, God says "whosoever believeth shall not persish"]

For instance, you are wrong, that is not what it says.... it says everyone believing, that does limit it.
[ there isn't the least intimation of limitation except that which Calvinists subjectively impose. It's not there.]

If you ignore it, it is not there, but if you study it, it is indeed there are you rebel against Gods truth.


[You can dislike what I say as much as you want, but until you can prove me wrong,]

It happens each time you post, you have been proven wrong once again
[I will continue to say it - that Calvinism is nothing but a Satanic doctrine meant to deceive Christians]

What a stupid post.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Yes, the iniquity is passed on. Do we not see that today in generational child abuse where violence is repeated from generation to generation? That is the iniquity passed on by heredity ....but it is not the guilt of the father that is passed down...no-one is punished for another's crime in God's economy. God is just.
But I understand why you would have to believe that...Calvinism demands such diabolical reasoning and misconceptions regarding God's character...calling evil (injustice) good.

Another stupid ,wicked post, from wof morons. Stop posting such idiocy and try reading and posting scripture.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

"Phoneman777,

". [Since you refuse the believe the plain Word of God],
No he does believe it.

[For instance, God says "whosoever believeth shall not persish"]

For instance, you are wrong, that is not what it says.... it says everyone believing, that does limit it.
[ there isn't the least intimation of limitation except that which Calvinists subjectively impose. It's not there.]

If you ignore it, it is not there, but if you study it, it is indeed there are you rebel against Gods truth.


[You can dislike what I say as much as you want, bt until you can prove me wrong,]

It happens each time you post, you have been proven wrong once again
[I will continue to say it - that Calvinism is nothing but a Satanic doctrine meant to deceive Christians]

What a stupid post.

It is of note that @Phoneman777 doesn't implement Scripture, but uses philosophy, libel, slander, sensationalist remarks, and callowness.

If he were an honest man, I'd debate him a passage at time, but the sad fact is he rejects the one true Gospel and the true God of Scripture for his free will god that cannot speak, walk, or hear.

The Satanic accusations he offers is really juvenile.

Oh, and the silly claim there isn't the least intimation of limitation statement? The word predestination in Scripture is defined as just that, "to limit in number; to limit in advance, to predetermine..." Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:29-30, and contextually it is God who in his choosing who did so.

But, these guys like @Phoneman777 don't bother with Scripture, they've made their own rules and gospel up and God has to succumb to their rules or he cannot be fair, just, or God.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Just to clarify things, from the Anti-"Calvinist" perspective on here, for the most part, and from their usual position of libel, a truncated and distorted gospel, and ignorance of facts let's talk about their usage of the term "injustice."

First, their definition and personification of injustice is summed up in Romans 9:20. So, God took care of that for all of us to see.

Secondly, which should then be obvious, they see God as unjust, "unfair" (same thing) and practicing injustice if he damns any soul to hell; without giving them some chance to vote and choose themselves out of being spiritually dead (which is impossible, btw) and "into heaven." Note John 6:44; John 6:37; John 6:65; James 1:18; 2 Peter 1:1; John 6:63 &c.

Keep in mind all outside Christ are wicked, hostile toward God, deserving of hell, are owed nothing from God whatsoever. In the Anti-"Calvinist" gospel, they are owed a chance or God is seen as unjust. Yep, again, Romans 9:20 in action.

If man is owed any type of chance to do something to vote themselves in, it is no longer the Gospel of Grace, but of merit, because they've made man as one who is owed something from God. Nope. God is free, owes no person anything, and shows mercy to whom he wills; Romans 9:16; Exodus 33:17-23 and reveals himself, as well as the Son, to whom they will to do so and to none else; Matthew 11:25-30.

There is a wicked hatred for the truth of God. this is spoken of in Romans 1 in this way;

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
a]who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
b] of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth
C]unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.
d]wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth.
e]every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
f]of people who try to suppress the truth by unrighteousness.
g] evil men who push away the truth from them.


19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I don't know about you Phoneman, but it seems that those who believe this doctrine are almost happy that most will burn in Hell. And think that God is not powerful enough to show His Glory without arbitrarily creating, intentionally, specific people for Hell...no choice, no chance.
It is a bit disturbing though, to detect a certain glee because of folks being sent to hell. Cold, hopeless, dark doctrine IMHO.

What a foolish, stupid post. Try and retract it before people see how foolish this is. bearing false witness is a 9th commandment violation, not that you care about what scripture actually says.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Mmm...no. There is no libel here, I lived it and studied this doctrine since the early 90's. I experienced it, everything I said about the coldness and glee is TRUTH. I am sorry you do not agree...my guess is that you are an "intellectual"? Calvinism seems to draw them. No warm fuzzy's or real love for one another in the 2 reformed Church's I attended, just snobbery and shunning those who did not meet THEIR standards.
You believe what you guys ALWAYS say to non-Calvinists: "you just do not understand.."
I honestly wish I never heard of such a doctrine as this. I hope that God will give you the grace to be humble enough to see truth.

With the attitude you have displayed it is no wonder people avoided you. You demonstrate a disdain for scripture, which is the very thing God has given to us to guide us, by The Holy Spirit. All you people suggest all of these mystical experiences but know very little of revealed truth. When people explain parts of it, you scoff and ridicule.

 

[brakelite]

The above is probably the most baseless and libelous statement I've read on this forum. Frankly it's a lie from the pit of hell itself, but you don't mind that, neither will it stop you.

Now a question, correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't your "Christ" a created being?

No.