The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

This is open rebellion against God and His holy word. I thought that site with the anti cal coffee breaks was evil, but maybe some of those cowards have snuck over here.!

 

[brakelite]

What right did he have making that choice, what about the nations around Israel? Why didn’t they get a choice to be his representatives?

They did have a choice. And they refused.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

There is a wicked hatred for the truth of God. this is spoken of in Romans 1 in this way;

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
a]who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
b] of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth
C]unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.
d]wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth.
e]every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
f]of people who try to suppress the truth by unrighteousness.
g] evil men who push away the truth from them.


19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Yes, even those who claim to have chosen themselves into heaven by their own special love for God via free will while dead in sin do this. They chose in their power, while lost, to come to God, because while lost they knew in their good hearts God didn't want robots. It's amazing really how much love they had for God while lost, and how much of their gospel they understood while lost, especially in light of Romans 8:7; Romans 8:8 and 1 Corinthians 2:14.

None of their claims to have done these things are Gospel truth. The other factor is they claim God looked through time and saw they would choose Him so so God decided to save them for this. It is quite simple: That is not the Gospel of grace or unmerited favor, but is a false gospel of works and is meritorious salvation. But, they don't mind having that either. Anything but the true God and true Gospel that is Soli Deo Gloria; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

They did have a choice. And they refused.

Utter nonsense. How long have you been making up and writing your own narrative?

Scripture to prove the above?

Don't waste your time, there are none.

Aren't you the one who preaches Christ is a created being, too?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No.

First, you lied about us and made slanderous remarks that are untrue toward us. That's a fact.

But you don't seem to mind.

I'm pretty certain I saw you arguing this on this very forum. So you believe the Biblical fact that Christ is uncreated and is in fact very God? Deity?

 

[Nancy]

What a foolish, stupid post. Try and retract it before people see how foolish this is. bearing false witness is a 9th commandment violation, not that you care about what scripture actually says.

You sure like name calling I see. Well...since you are speaking scripture...neither you or your friends on her ever answered my question, asked awhile back. John : "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." I will not bring up in here all of the many, many other scriptures speaking to this.
BTW-how come I NEVER see Calvinists talk much at all, about God's Love? I mean, it IS a part of His character, yes?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You sure like name calling I see. Well...since you are speaking scripture...neither you or your friends on her ever answered my question, asked awhile back. John : "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." I will not bring up in here all of the many, many other scriptures speaking to this
BTW-how come I NEVER see Calvinists talk much at all, about God's Love? I mean, it IS a part of His character, yes?

Hello Nancy,
In 1 jn 2:2....the sins of is added, notice it is in Italics.
There is no other propitiation anywhere in the world
If anyone's sins are going to be propitiated, it will have to be by Jesus.
Romans 5, and Romans 8 tell us where God's love is...it is ONLY in Christ.

 

[Helen]

I don't know about you Phoneman, but it seems that those who believe this doctrine are almost happy that most will burn in Hell. And think that God is not powerful enough to show His Glory without arbitrarily creating, intentionally, specific people for Hell...no choice, no chance.
It is a bit disturbing though, to detect a certain glee because of folks being sent to hell. Cold, hopeless, dark doctrine IMHO.

Yes agree...
We see a picture of Jesus with His arms outstretch over Jerusalem " Oh Jerusalem ...How I would have gathered you..."

Like you, I don't much sorrow, distress, travailing, or weeping over the lost.
The attitude is- " They deserve it, they get what they want...etc etc"

I don't find that hardness heart in the bible.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes agree...
We see a picture of Jesus with His arms outstretch over Jerusalem " Oh Jerusalem ...How I would have gathered you..."

Like you, I don't much sorrow, distress, travailing, or weeping over the lost.
The attitude is- " They deserve it, they get what they want...etc etc"

I don't find that hardness heart in the bible.

Gathered your children, not you. Look it up. Another misquoted scripture that ppl take the ball and run with...right off a cliff.

#AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

[Nancy]

Hello Nancy,
In 1 jn 2:2....the sins of is added, notice it is in Italics.
There is no other propitiation anywhere in the world
If anyone's sins are going to be propitiated, it will have to be by Jesus.
Romans 5, and Romans 8 tell us where God's love is...it is ONLY in Christ.

Sorry about the typo with 1 John 2:2
Many words in the bible are in italics for clarity in translation.
"There is no other propitiation anywhere in the world
If anyone's sins are going to be propitiated, it will have to be by Jesus."
Yes. I've never stated otherwise.
Was not asking you where to find God's love in the bible, I asked why I never hear that huge part of His character being discussed much by Calvinists.

 

[Nancy]

Gathered your children, not you. Look it up. Another misquoted scripture that ppl take the ball and run with...right off a cliff.

#AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Didn't you notice those three little dots after the word "you" ? Simply a partial quote! And this is YOU taking that ball and running off that cliff, right here. You just saw the word "you", which was the last word in an incomplete quote-which @"ByGrace" clearly revealed, and YOU ran with it.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Sorry about the typo with 1 John 2:2
Many words in the bible are in italics for clarity in translation.
"There is no other propitiation anywhere in the world
If anyone's sins are going to be propitiated, it will have to be by Jesus."
Yes. I've never stated otherwise.
Was not asking you where to find God's love in the bible, I asked why I never hear that huge part of His character being discussed much by Calvinists.

Have you ever noticed that in Rom1 Paul says that the wrath of God has been revealed from heaven?
He did not say the love of God is revealed.
We know that in love God has given the Son.
That love should only be presented as found In Christ. Rom5 , Rom8..
Do you know the word love does not appear in the book of Acts, when evangelism was at its peak?
Our churches have distorted the message to, let's be happy, happy, happy, love, love ,love...at the expense of God judging sinners outside of Christ.

 

[brakelite]

Another stupid ,wicked post, from wof morons. Stop posting such idiocy and try reading and posting scripture.

You can no more handle scripture that is contradictory to your theories than you can handle the above criticism of your theories. BTW, is WOF warrant of fitness?

I'm pretty certain I saw you arguing this on this very forum.

You're most welcome to search...when you find it get back to me...that challenge, if accepted, will mean you and I won't be talking for a while; a long while.

Utter nonsense. How long have you been making up and writing your own narrative?

So the husbandmen didn't throw the Son of the King out of the vineyard and kill Him? The Son, just a few days previous, didn't declare their house desolate? No-one is arguing against Israel being chosen...the issue was over chosen for what? And did they accept their calling? No. Israel refused their calling. Some individuals accepted. Only a few who didn't bow to Baal and live as hypocrites. The apostle Paul was not overly enthused about Israel's willingness to cooperate with God's purposes. Nor were any of the other prophets. Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

tell us where God's love is...it is ONLY in Christ.

John 3:16 appears to contradict you. The Father, not just the Son, loves the world. In fact, according to you and your friends here, He loves the world so much He has decided not to allow 98% of the world any opportunity for repentance, seeing Jesus only died for the 2%ers.

 

[Nancy]

Have you ever noticed that in Rom1 Paul says that the wrath of God has been revealed from heaven?
He did not say the love of God is revealed.
We know that in love God has given the Son.
That love should only be presented as found In Christ. Rom5 , Rom8..
Do you know the word love does not appear in the book of Acts, when evangelism was at its peak?
Our churches have distorted the message to, let's be happy, happy, happy, love, love ,love...at the expense of God judging sinners outside of Christ.

1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love". If God IS love then, would it not be logical that He is ALWAYS Love...His wrath is just, "He wages war in righteousness"! His Glory will be seen by all one day...every aspect of His character will be known by all, not all will be very happy though as, they did NOT believe on the Son. I do not believe God takes pleasure when pouring out His wrath but, still LOVE none the less. I believe it grieves Him to punish the lost sinners and wicked yet, He cannot go against His own nature.
JMO.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love". If God IS love then, would it not be logical that He is ALWAYS Love...His wrath is just, "He wages war in righteousness"! His Glory will be seen by all one day...every aspect of His character will be known by all, not all will be very happy though as, they did NOT believe on the Son. I do not believe God takes pleasure when pouring out His wrath but, still LOVE none the less. I believe it grieves Him to punish the lost sinners and wicked yet, He cannot go against His own nature.
JMO.

I think I will go with those who were seen in heaven already,who know better..Rev19:1-4

 

[Preacher4Truth]

JMO.

The above sums up why you make erroneous conclusions, and come up with a domesticated god and truncated gospel. You allow your opinion to bring you to conclusions instead of 2 Timothy 2:15.

 

[Pearl]

1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love". If God IS love then, would it not be logical that He is ALWAYS Love...His wrath is just, "He wages war in righteousness"! His Glory will be seen by all one day...every aspect of His character will be known by all, not all will be very happy though as, they did NOT believe on the Son. I do not believe God takes pleasure when pouring out His wrath but, still LOVE none the less. I believe it grieves Him to punish the lost sinners and wicked yet, He cannot go against His own nature.
JMO.

Tough love?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Unbelievable, so now we are not allowed to give opinions?? Now, if I did not put "JMO" in there, it would have been presumptions. We ALL have opinions. Your own beliefs come from the opinions of others interpretations!
I'm so happy that God is nothing like you people. I don't understand why you just don't just go to a Calvinistic board.

My opinion and your opinion does not matter. What matters is what saith the scripture?
Bring some scripture leave your feelings and opinions at the door.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Unbelievable, so now we are not allowed to give opinions?? Now, if I did not put "JMO" in there, it would have been presumptions. We ALL have opinions. Your own beliefs come from the opinions of others interpretations!
I'm so happy that God is nothing like you people. I don't understand why you just don't just go to a Calvinistic board.

How is that unbelievable? You need to humble yourself. Why not just heed the biblical advice given you? Too proud of yourself?

Who said you can't give opinions? That's right, no one. I just pointed out that your opinions aren't truth, or Scriptural. Amazingly you're offended more over your made up beliefs being exposed than you are offending the truth shown you.

And for the record can you show me where I've given others opinions and interpretations? That's right, you can't. Your assertion is then #fakenews just like the gospel you preach.

You know, if you spent some time actually reading Scripture and studying context than preaching your opinion you'd arrive at the truths we've shown you. But you're too busy for that because you've placed your opinion above Scripture and insult those who know what they're talking about.

 

[Nancy]

How is that unbelievable? You need to humble yourself. Why not just heed the biblical advice given you? Too proud of yourself?

Who said you can't give opinions? That's right, no one. I just pointed out that your opinions aren't truth, or Scriptural. Amazingly you're offended more over your made up beliefs being exposed than you are offending the truth shown you.

And for the record can you show me where I've given others opinions and interpretations? That's right, you can't. Your assertion is then #fakenews just like the gospel you preach.

You know, if you spent some time actually reading Scripture and studying context than preaching your opinion you'd arrive at the truths we've shown you. But you're too busy for that because you've placed your opinion above Scripture and insult those who know what they're talking about.

LAST WORDS: All of the above is your opinion. And only your opinion. And you talk about libel .
Jesus related to others through love, not bullying and badgering.
Your "intelligence" is blinding you and obviously preventing you from producing the true fruit of The Spirit.
This will go nowhere with either you or I so...I am ending my correspondence with you, on this thread.
God Bless,
nancy