Hate

[Lady Crosstalk]

Contrasting with the Game of Thrones Ice-Wall you were describing that surrounds your church.

A ridiculous comparison. The churches are in the sorry state that they are because they have lost the ability to discern what is sin. We don't leap on anyone with judgment--but the line must be drawn. Paul was struggling with a very worldly Corinthian church and he said that they did sexually immoral things that even the pagans did not do! I am not a "radical grace" person--that is the province of the neo-Calvinists, and I believe it is heretical. Read Acts 5:32 and Hebrews 5:9 for confirmation of what I have just said.

 

[SkyWriting]

A ridiculous comparison. The churches are in the sorry state that they are because they have lost the ability to discern what is sin. We don't leap on anyone with judgment--but the line must be drawn. Paul was struggling with a very worldly Corinthian church and he said that they did sexually immoral things that even the pagans did not do! I am not a "radical grace" person--that is the province of the neo-Calvinists, and I believe it is heretical. Read Acts 5:32 and Hebrews 5:9 for confirmation of what I have just said.

They are losing people becasue people don't have to attend church to have a good time or socialize with others.
One growing church I attended grew dramatically by adding kitchen staff so people could
spend meals together in the middle of the week. Like I said, people can't hear good
news standing on the street just becasue you don't like their lifestyle.
How many people did Jesus ban from his immediate company?

You are reffering to difficulties that new baby churches were dealing with in the year 0045.


Did you know that people have studied what churches are growing are doing?
Full time volunteer coordinators and kitchen staff is the secret to growth.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

They are losing people becasue people don't have to attend church to have a good time or socialize with others.
One growing church I attended grew dramatically by adding kitchen staff so people could
spend meals together in the middle of the week. Like I said, people can't hear good
news standing on the street just becasue you don't like their lifestyle.
How many people did Jesus ban from his immediate company?

Those people were converted--they loved God Almighty and they adored His Son. Even the woman caught in adultery was told, "Go and sin no more." He granted mercy to her but He made it clear that her life must change.

You are reffering to difficulties that churches were dealing with in the year 0045.

The message is still the same and it speaks clearly to those who would follow Christ. Do you read the Bible?

Did you know that people have studied what churches are growing are doing?
Full time volunteer coordinators and kitchen staff is the secret to growth.

And when they are well fed, will that take them off the boulevard to hell? If you truly love people, you will tell them them the truth. I will tell you a story that a missionary told about being with a very effective Indian pastor/evangelist--in India. It was during the outbreak of terrible famine. The missionary's group had set up to feed people with money supplied from the West. One day, the missionary and the Indian pastor/evangelist were out walking and an obviously starving man collapsed in front of them. The missionary said, urgently, "We must get this man to our feeding station immediately!" The Indian pastor sat down on the ground and cradled the man's head in his lap--and spoke to the starving man in his language in hushed tones and the man was barely able to respond. The missionary nearly shouted, "What are you doing? We must get this man help immediately!" The pastor looked up with tears in his eyes and said, "This man is clearly dying--I have seen it many times. It is much too late to feed him food--there is no time. He needs spiritual food, at this point. I have told him about Jesus and he said he wants to be in heaven with Him. Would you have me send him off to hell with a full belly instead of to heaven with his Savior?"

 

[SkyWriting]

The pastor looked up with tears in his eyes and said, "This man is clearly dying--I have seen it many times. It is much too late to feed him food--there is no time. He needs spiritual food, at this point. I have told him about Jesus and he said he wants to be in heaven with Him. Would you have me send him off to hell with a full belly instead of to heaven with his Savior?"

Of course the church only provides a deviled egg sack lunch then sends them off to hell with devils food cupcakes for desert. So you have done your research then.

And that is why you don't kick people out of the church. Thanks for the story.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Mark 11:25
And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:21-22
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Colossians 3:13
Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

 

[SkyWriting]

The message is still the same and it speaks clearly to those who would follow Christ. Do you read the Bible?

1 Thessalonians 4:11
And to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you,

Proverbs 13:3
Whoever guards his mouth preserves his life; he who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.

Psalm 46:10
“Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”

Proverbs 10:19
When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

1 Corinthians 14:1-40
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. ...

Matthew 16:28
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

2 Samuel 20:20
Joab answered, “Far be it from me, far be it, that I should swallow up or destroy!

Proverbs 17:28
Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

Psalm 62:5
For God alone, O my soul, wait in silence, for my hope is from him.

Lamentations 3:26
It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Psalm 141:3
Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips!

Habakkuk 2:20
But the Lord is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before him.”

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

They are losing people becasue people don't have to attend church to have a good time or socialize with others.

They can have a "good time or socialize with others" at their local bar. But they likely won't hear the gospel truth or gain salvation, in that venue.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

And that is why you don't kick people out of the church.

Sometimes it is necessary. The Risen Christ scolded the leadership of the church at Thyatira for "tolerating" a woman in their congregation who led people in sexual immorality. (See Revelation 2:20-22) She had apparently been given time to repent to no avail. She was polluting the church with her false teaching and immorality. It is clear what should be done (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-13--especially verses 12 and 13). Those who are truly His, follow Him.

I have only seen one person "kicked out" of a church. It was in the case of an adulterous woman--I will call her "Alice" (not her real name). At nineteen, Alice had become pregnant with Man A's child, before she quickly married Man B (whom she had been dating but she did not tell him about Man A). Man A, a very wealthy man, was married at the time. Alice had two more children with Man B, who was a very kind and compassionate young Christian and a good provider for his family. They began attending a local church and ten years passed.

Then Alice heard, through her three-times divorced mother, that Man A had divorced his wife and thus was now available. Alice contacted him and began to slip off to several secret rendezvous with him (telling Man B that she was going off to care for her now-ailing mother). Then Man A asked her to move in with him--which she did, leaving her three children with Man B after telling him about Man A. Eventually, she decided to regain custody of her children, but there was a problem with Man A, who only wanted her to gain custody of his own biological son (her firstborn) and leave the other two with Man B--their biological father. It was a very ugly situation with the younger two children feeling rejected by their mother and missing their elder brother (Man A and Alice lived several hours away). When Alice would come to visit her younger children, Man B (to whom she was still legally married) would ask his pastor to the house and they would sit down together for counsel. Alice was adamant that Man A was her "soul mate" and that she was not about to leave him and go back to Man B. The pastor (and an elder he brought with him) told her that the church would have no choice but to put her out of the church. I was at the meeting of the whole church when it was done (by secret ballot). Not that Alice likely cared, at that point. But that's not the end of the story.

Another four years passed. Finally, Man A grew tired of Alice and frustrated with his son, who was now a rebellious teen. He pitched them both out to go and live with Alice's mother. Alice contacted Man B, wondering if they could get back together. Man B was now seriously dating a young Christian woman who had a great relationship with Man B's children. Understandably, he declined Alice's invitation.

Was the church right to put her out of the church? Was Man B right to refuse to get back together with Alice? You be the judge.

 

[Nancy]

Sometimes it is necessary. The Risen Christ scolded the leadership of the church at Thyatira for "tolerating" a woman in their congregation who led people in sexual immorality. (See Revelation 2:20-22) She had apparently been given time to repent to no avail. She was polluting the church with her false teaching and immorality. It is clear what should be done (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-13--especially verses 12 and 13). Those who are truly His, follow Him.

I have only seen one person "kicked out" of a church. It was in the case of an adulterous woman--I will call her "Alice" (not her real name). At nineteen, Alice had become pregnant with Man A's child, before she quickly married Man B (whom she had been dating but she did not tell him about Man A). Man A, a very wealthy man, was married at the time. Alice had two more children with Man B, who was a very kind and compassionate young Christian and a good provider for his family. They began attending a local church and ten years passed.

Then Alice heard, through her three-times divorced mother, that Man A had divorced his wife and thus was now available. Alice contacted him and began to slip off to several secret rendezvous with him (telling Man B that she was going off to care for her now-ailing mother). Then Man A asked her to move in with him--which she did, leaving her three children with Man B after telling him about Man A. Eventually, she decided to regain custody of her children, but there was a problem with Man A, who only wanted her to gain custody of his own biological son (her firstborn) and leave the other two with Man B--their biological father. It was a very ugly situation with the younger two children feeling rejected by their mother and missing their elder brother (Man A and Alice lived several hours away). When Alice would come to visit her younger children, Man B (to whom she was still legally married) would ask his pastor to the house and they would sit down together for counsel. Alice was adamant that Man A was her "soul mate" and that she was not about to leave him and go back to Man B. The pastor (and an elder that he brought with him) told her that the church would have no choice but to put her out of the church. I was at the meeting of the whole church when it was done (by secret ballot). Not that Alice likely cared, at that point. But that's not the end of the story.

Another four years passed. Finally, Man A grew tired of Alice and frustrated with his son, who was now a rebellious teen. He pitched them both out to go and live with Alice's mother. Alice contacted Man B, wondering if they could get back together. Man B was now seriously dating a young Christian woman who had a great relationship with Man B's children. Understandably, he declined Alice's invitation.

Was the church right to put her out of the church? Was Man B right to refuse to get back together with Alice? You be the judge.

"Was the church right to put her out of the church?"
From what I gather from scripture, I would say that the answer to both these questions is yes and maybe yes?
1 Corinthians 5:12 (NIV) What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
Matthew 18:15-20 ESV
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven..."
I'm not sure this means to banish someone from Church gatherings...?


"Was Man B right to refuse to get back together with Alice? "
On the on hand we have: 1 Corinthians 7:10 "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband."
Matthew 5:32
"32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

So, if a man marries a divorced woman, even if it was her husband who divorced her, the man who marries her commits adultery...so, does that mean that the woman is also living in adultery?? This is a tough subject...
♥

 

[SkyWriting]

Sometimes it is necessary. The Risen Christ scolded the leadership of the church at Thyatira for "tolerating" a woman in their congregation who led people in sexual immorality. (See Revelation 2:20-22) She had apparently been given time to repent to no avail. She was polluting the church with her false teaching and immorality. It is clear what should be done (see 1 Corinthians 5:1-13--especially verses 12 and 13). Those who are truly His, follow Him.

I have only seen one person "kicked out" of a church. It was in the case of an adulterous woman--I will call her "Alice" (not her real name). At nineteen, Alice had become pregnant with Man A's child, before she quickly married Man B (whom she had been dating but she did not tell him about Man A). Man A, a very wealthy man, was married at the time. Alice had two more children with Man B, who was a very kind and compassionate young Christian and a good provider for his family. They began attending a local church and ten years passed.

Then Alice heard, through her three-times divorced mother, that Man A had divorced his wife and thus was now available. Alice contacted him and began to slip off to several secret rendezvous with him (telling Man B that she was going off to care for her now-ailing mother). Then Man A asked her to move in with him--which she did, leaving her three children with Man B after telling him about Man A. Eventually, she decided to regain custody of her children, but there was a problem with Man A, who only wanted her to gain custody of his own biological son (her firstborn) and leave the other two with Man B--their biological father. It was a very ugly situation with the younger two children feeling rejected by their mother and missing their elder brother (Man A and Alice lived several hours away). When Alice would come to visit her younger children, Man B (to whom she was still legally married) would ask his pastor to the house and they would sit down together for counsel. Alice was adamant that Man A was her "soul mate" and that she was not about to leave him and go back to Man B. The pastor (and an elder he brought with him) told her that the church would have no choice but to put her out of the church. I was at the meeting of the whole church when it was done (by secret ballot). Not that Alice likely cared, at that point. But that's not the end of the story.

Another four years passed. Finally, Man A grew tired of Alice and frustrated with his son, who was now a rebellious teen. He pitched them both out to go and live with Alice's mother. Alice contacted Man B, wondering if they could get back together. Man B was now seriously dating a young Christian woman who had a great relationship with Man B's children. Understandably, he declined Alice's invitation.

Was the church right to put her out of the church? Was Man B right to refuse to get back together with Alice? You be the judge.

The church may turn people over to the police.
Perhaps Jesus would go that far, but I'm not sure.
The church is better at counseling active members
than banned members.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

The church may turn people over to the police.
Perhaps Jesus would go that far, but I'm not sure.
The church is better at counseling active members
than banned members.

I am a Biblical counselor of many years. When someone has their will set on disobedience--there is nothing any counselor can say. Even Jesus said that He had longed to save the people of Jerusalem, "but [they] would not". The Holy Spirit comes to convict of "sin, righteousness and judgment" but He goes where He wills--directed by the Father.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

For those who say God is only love, let them explain Noah's flood or the second coming. As well Sodom and Gomorrah.

Well that is proof of Gods Love for us.
Sodom and Gomorrah were totally depraved evil so they were wiped out and it's the same with the flood.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I thought now would be a good point to talk soon the claim by some that God creates evil.

Compare the KJV and the NIV and you clearly see the problem is the KJV.
Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

One has to read all of 45 and then you will know that, create evil means the evils of afflictions and punishment, but not the evil of Sin.

 

[CoreIssue]

Well that is proof of Gods Love for us.
Sodom and Gomorrah were totally depraved evil so they were wiped out and it's the same with the flood.

So killing them all was an act of love.

The problem is today many say to say anything critical of anyone is unloving and against God.

 

[CoreIssue]

One has to read all of 45 and then you will know that, create evil means the evils of afflictions and punishment, but not the evil of Sin.

The KJV says God created evil. But the Bible does say God hates.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

There are clear warnings that we are not to embrace false doctrine, cults and other religions.

That we are to judge them, rebuke them and correct them.

We tried to do so with love and gentleness at first. But if they do not listen we are to do so again firmly. If they still do not listen we are supposed to reject as beyond hope.

The Bible makes it clear that if we truly belong to Christ we cannot tolerate the error of others after a period of time because to do so is to risk pollution.

Also you risk being wrong yourself and dictating your own view on others never cuts the mustard does it.

So one has to try to deal with all in a way that is not foolish but with Grace or all is lost.

Look how the Churches have lost the plot nowadays, that they have become irrelevant to the Political powers, now why was that lost ? due to incompetence etc workings of Satan, the Devil is in the detail.

We the majority of people have been lead astray, Satanist are in all of the Churches who have rejected Jesus Christ for their own religions, their is only one Church in fact and Jesus Christ is the head of such and the Church is the body.

If the Pope was truly Serving Jesus Christ he would be backing up our Lord and Saviour to the hilt, regardless of what the worldly may think and he would be like a prophet warning all who reject Jesus Christ, just like they did without fear. pointing out all deviates for what they truly are, because his position is to try and save Souls first and foremost regardless who may try and challenge him otherwise.

But what do we see nowadays with all the Churches bowing down to mans works and depravity supporting all that once they pointed out for what it truly was as a Sin, what happened ? fact is that they are so lost in Sin that they cant see it for what it truly is. this has being going on like a infestation from Vatican II when they slowly changed using a Fabian method of slowly changing over the years into become too concerned with the worldly values more so and moved more and more away from the Spiritual position that should of been paramount in Jesus Christ and that's why the Churches lost the people, because they had no Spiritual foundations in Jesus Christ. so they were looking too their Church for guidance ? but how can one guide if one does not truly know who your Lord and Saviour truly is in fact. such becomes just a husk much like the 3 little pigs who built their house of straw and along came one who would devour them.

 

[CoreIssue]

Also you risk being wrong yourself and dictating your own view on others never cuts the mustard does it.

So one has to try to deal with all in a way that is not foolish but with Grace or all is lost.

Look how the Churches have lost the plot nowadays, that they have become irrelevant to the Political powers, now why was that lost ? due to incompetence etc workings of Satan, the Devil is in the detail.

We the majority of people have been lead astray, Satanist are in all of the Churches who have rejected Jesus Christ for their own religions, their is only one Church in fact and Jesus Christ is the head of such and the Church is the body.

If the Pope was truly Serving Jesus Christ he would be backing up our Lord and Saviour to the hilt, regardless of what the worldly may think and he would be like a prophet warning all who reject Jesus Christ, just like they did without fear. pointing out all deviates for what they truly are, because his position is to try and save Souls first and foremost regardless who may try and challenge him otherwise.

But what do we see nowadays with all the Churches bowing down to mans works and depravity supporting all that once they pointed out for what it truly was as a Sin, what happened ? fact is that they are so lost in Sin that they cant see it for what it truly is. this has being going on like a infestation from Vatican II when they slowly changed using a Fabian method of slowly changing over the years into become too concerned with the worldly values more so and moved more and more away from the Spiritual position that should of been paramount in Jesus Christ and that's why the Churches lost the people, because they had no Spiritual foundations in Jesus Christ. so they were looking too their Church for guidance ? but how can one guide if one does not truly know who your Lord and Saviour truly is in fact. such becomes just a husk much like the 3 little pigs who built their house of straw and along came one who would devour them.

If I'm wrong on anything show me the Bible.

 

[CoreIssue]

They are losing people becasue people don't have to attend church to have a good time or socialize with others.
One growing church I attended grew dramatically by adding kitchen staff so people could
spend meals together in the middle of the week. Like I said, people can't hear good
news standing on the street just becasue you don't like their lifestyle.
How many people did Jesus ban from his immediate company?

You are reffering to difficulties that new baby churches were dealing with in the year 0045.


Did you know that people have studied what churches are growing are doing?
Full time volunteer coordinators and kitchen staff is the secret to growth.

The problem today is too many churches cater to entertaining people.

Preach salvation, hell, sin and sanctification and they run from the doors.

Denominations teach doctrines of men is the Bible. Paul warns against denominations.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So killing them all was an act of love.

The problem is today many say to say anything critical of anyone is unloving and against God.

Yes !
One reaps and you will reap what you sow, that's how it goes even on a large scale much more so.
Look at the Jews they abandoned God and fell, you know. so such is the same regardless if a Nation turns it's back on God it's going to have Hell to pay.
Just remember if you had no help say and you were on an island you would have to hop to it, so It's much like if you were working your garden for your food and then you some how lost the plot and thought that the food will just come about regardless of what you do. such is being lead astray one could say and you will be punished for your disregard and foolishness. as no one is going to help you out because you are stranded on a Island with no help. the same is regardless of a Nation that has to fend for it's self. is it not a fact.

How about if you were a boy and your dad backhanded you for being a right little ignorant twerp, now he has the right to deal with you does he not. the thing is that the Son must do what his Father says, because the Father does so for the Sons own good, because he is responsible to his Son and Loves him. now if the Father just lets the Son run wild, old Sonny boy will end up in only big strife and a slave to Sin. so the boy has to respect his Father regardless as the Same is to God because the dad is doing the will of God not lead away by the works of Satan.
Now look at nowadays the Dad and Mum have no rights to their children and the State will bring them up ? much like Nazi Germany where the government owned brat thinks he is equal to all around him and if not more empowered to frighten the mom and dad, they live in fear of a little brat who is a real dictating brainwashed little prick.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes !
One reaps and you will reap what you sow, that's how it goes even on a large scale much more so.
Look at the Jews they abandoned God and fell, you know. so such is the same regardless if a Nation turns it's back on God it's going to have Hell to pay.
Just remember if you had no help say and you were on an island you would have to hop to it, so It's much like if you were working your garden for your food and then you some how lost the plot and thought that the food will just come about regardless of what you do. such is being lead astray one could say and you will be punished for your disregard and foolishness. as no one is going to help you out because you are stranded on a Island with no help. the same is regardless of a Nation that has to fend for it's self. is it not a fact.

How about if you were a boy and your dad backhanded you for being a right little ignorant twerp, now he has the right to deal with you does he not. the thing is that the Son must do what his Father says, because the Father does so for the Sons own good, because he is responsible to his Son and Loves him. now if the Father just lets the Son run wild, old Sonny boy will end up in only big strife and a slave to Sin. so the boy has to respect his Father regardless as the Same is to God because the dad is doing the will of God not lead away by the works of Satan.
Now look at nowadays the Dad and Mum have no rights to their children and the State will bring them up ? much like Nazi Germany where the government owned brat thinks he is equal to all around him and if not more empowered to frighten the mom and dad, they live in fear of a little brat who is a real dictating brainwashed little prick.

We do reap what we sow.

The Saints reap rewards.

The damned punishment.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

We had the PM claiming to have one child for your self and one for the government over 10 years ago and I remember my mum and dad said what the hell is this moron peddling ?

The only intervention of the government as to power over ones children, is if you are the lowest life form, but sadly under Socialism all are classed as equal and the lowest denominator takes precedence over all. so you have no rights worthy of what they may claim under the god of political correctness.