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Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by CoreIssue, May 11, 2019.

  1. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:

    These are the words of him who holds the seven spiritsb]">[b] of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
     
  2. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

    These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    What I'll post clearly shows that while God is love is also just and hates.
     
  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    There are clear warnings that we are not to embrace false doctrine, cults and other religions.

    That we are to judge them, rebuke them and correct them.

    We tried to do so with love and gentleness at first. But if they do not listen we are to do so again firmly. If they still do not listen we are supposed to reject as beyond hope.

    The Bible makes it clear that if we truly belong to Christ we cannot tolerate the error of others after a period of time because to do so is to risk pollution.
     
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  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I have been challenged that I am conducting myself improperly at times on the forum in dealing with others.

    I believe the materials posted here show I have not.
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I believe how people think on this topic demonstrates another factor of why we are in the apostasy
     
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  7. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Boy - this thread looks a LOT like the one-sided conversations on your online debate site.

    Listen - hate also comes in the form of LIES - which YOU doll out constantly . . .
     
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  8. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Yes--I think that the passage is teaching against hypocrisy. What is the sin that Jesus called out repeatedly--hypocrisy. What is the sin that was judged most harshly in the New Testament era? The hypocrisy of Ananias and Sapphira. Either trying to appear better than we are or appear better than others is a measure of trying to feed our own pride. Pride seems to prevent the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
     
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  9. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    When a church fails to call sin, sin, it loses the call of God.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "I put it right there with hate the sin but love the sinner."
    Problem is, some cannot seperate the two..
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    In the eyes of others we cannot separate them.

    But for me with few exceptions I can be extremely angry with somebody without hating them.

    But I am human, so there are exceptions. But with nobody anyone on this forum knows.
     
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  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Yeah, you’re right!

    And when are doctors going to finally stop practicing medicine and start preaching against sickness!

    Stupid medicine!!

    Yep works about as well as preaching against people’s sin, without focusing on the cure, which of course is love....so good luck with that
     
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  13. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I think sometimes that people aren't ready to hear the truth just yet; especially those who are in cults. So I wonder what would draw them more to /christ - condemnation or a Christian showing love.

    Just my take.
     
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  14. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    God does not call churches (institutions, organizations), he calls individuals. Right now he is calling his people (his true people, the wheat class) to come out of these man-made, man-contrived religious institutions. (Rev 18:4)

    "Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing! (Have nothing to do with the wrong practices and false doctrines taught there) Come out from it and be pure, you who carry the articles of the Lord’s house (the Lord's truths and doctrines)." Isa 52:11
     
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  15. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    God does call the Church to be the Church, loving God, preaching His truth, loving each other, helping the poor and innocent. When that does not happen, an individual church can definitely lose the call of God. The Risen Christ threatened to come and "remove the lamp stand" of the Ephesian church (see Revelation 2:5) for not loving Him or each other as they once had. Yes, God the Father does call individuals, but He also calls us corporately to be the Church--the Bride of Christ. Jesus said that "even the gates of hell will not prevail" against "her". The writer of Hebrews admonishes readers in Hebrews 10:25---> "not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the Day drawing near."

    That having been said, one does not have to attend an institutional church. Many house churches have formed around reading and studying the Bible together. But, if one goes that way, it would be necessary to stick to standard, orthodox doctrine and oppose any "unusual" interpretations in a firm but loving and gentle way. Humans can be very likely to form cults starting with a small group of believers. Satan is a wily enemy and humans are often putty in his hands when it comes to doctrine. Leaders of the house church should be chosen by the criteria given in the New Testament. Most of all, those leaders should have a very firm foundation in the word of God and be truly humble--able to be taught as well as being able to teach. For any small group planning to create their own house church, it would be a really good thing to read, The Kingdom of the Cults, by Walter Martin: Walter Martin's Religious InfoNet - Kingdom of the Cults Hopefully, it would teach the leaders of the small group the way to steer clear of cultish tendencies. It is a classic explanation of how cults emerge and sustain themselves.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    God certainly removed the lamp stand from a local body I once belonged to in the 90's. There became much division when a new associate pastor came on board. He and his wife stirred up all kinds of division and the Church eventually folded. Very sad as it once was a loving active Church. :( And yes, the small house meetings (which I do love) are definitely subject to the wiles of Satan-pride and leadership issues ensue there too. The last home study I attended was the best I have EVER had the privilege to be part of. Thee were about 10-12 of us and we used a book. Each week another person would "lead" (mainly just asking each person the questions from our homework) so, ALL, men and women were as one and nobody seemed to feel the need to Lord it over the others. I have since been unable to find such an awesome gathering.
     
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  17. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    My husband and I were also a part of an EXCELLENT house church of eight members. We also had no formal leader but we taught each other--it was a great experience of true fellowship. But the husband of one couple got transferred. Another couple went to a city where their handicapped son could receive more help. The wife of another couple died and the husband moved to be closer to their kids. That left just my husband and me. :( We have tried going to several churches in the area, but frankly, have not felt that was where we belonged. We still visit around but have not found a church home. :(
     
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  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Probably both
     
  19. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    As we said, God does not call an organization or institution to be the Church (the body of Christ) He calls individuals begotten of His spirit to be the Church. No institution is begotten of the spirit.

    There is no way for any Church institution to lose the call of God since he never called any Church institution in the first place. He already has a Church, it is comprised of its Head Christ Jesus our Lord and the body of him, that is all who have been joined to the body through consecration and sacrifice. All other Church organizations and institution are as we said man-made and man-contrived religious institutions.

    The light of the lamp has already been removed from the professing church even as the Lord forewarned it would be. We are not in the Ephesus stage of the church, we are in the Laodicean stage, the last stage of the Church’s history, and as the Lord warned he has spewed them out of his mouth.

    “Because of the current lukewarm condition of the professed Church as a whole, our Lord (in Rev 3:16) implied that there was little or no hope of bestirring the nominal mass to a favorable reception of his counsel. There was a time when stewardship of the Word was entrusted to the nominal Christian Church, who were God’s ministers of reconciliation to the world, commissioned to teach and preach the gospel to the spiritually poor “Babylon [a mixture of Catholic and Protestant church systems] was (past tense) a golden cup in the Lord’s hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine (false doctrines); therefore they have now gone mad.”(Jer. 51:7).

    Jesus’ remarks (in verse 16) indicate this privilege would be revoked; indeed a fulfillment along these very lines has already commenced. Prophetically, the Master declares it is merely a matter of time before he willspew out” (utterly disavow or vomit forth) the church systems per se.

    As the Lord states, Babylon the Great (the professing church) has fallen (Rev 18:2). And as such the Lord is calling his true people to come out of these systems, theripewheat (the wise virgins”) have already departed, all that remains in these systems are the tares” (nominal Christians, being bundled together for the fire of the Great Day) and of course theunripe” or “foolish virgins”, mere “babes”, unripe wheat, malnourished, lacking the proper food for any true growth in the graces and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    All the spirit begotten presently still trapped within these institutions of men are butbabesfor there is no room nor means for spiritual growth within these organizations,

    For the bed (the creed bed or crib) is shorter than that a man (a fully developed man, a mature Christian) can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it (God’s Word being narrowed by an erroneous theology, which purports to teach that only a few chosen ones will be saved while all others are either destroyed or tormented forever).” Isa 28:20

    Seeing as the “wise virgins” the mature have all but vacated Babylon as in accordance with the will of God it is obvious that what remains are but mere “babes”, unripe wheat, malnourished, lacking the proper food for any true growth in the graces and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Why is this you ask?

    Because with the fall of Babylon and the call to vacate there no longer is heardthe sound of the harpist” (those who are able to harmoniously interpret the word of God), nor themusicians” (those who can sing; i.e. proclaim truthfully the tidings of great joy, the song of Moses and the Lamb, Rev 15:3) nor theflutists” (character teachers) nor any truecraftsman” (true teachers) of any sorts found within her, for thelight of the lamp” (the light of the Bible, the truth) no longer shines in her anymore, neither is heard thevoice of the bridegroom OR the bride” (because the true Church, the “wise virgins” have all left separating themselves from the false professing church). Rev 18:22, 23

    There is nothing left for the Lord’s people in these systems. The only reason most of the Lord’s people still remain is because of the tender ties which bind them there, family, friends and associates for whom they are reluctant to leave behind, that and what they might think of them should they depart, thus the fear of men brings a snare (entraps them). Prov 29:25

    Jesus said:


    Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me (follow my example, heed my words, my counsel, my admonition to “Come out of her my people”) is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life (attempts to hold on to the present life with all its various attachments) will lose it, and whoever loses their life (lets this all go) for my sake will find it.” (Matt 10:37-39)

    So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has (not only worldly possessions and attachments, family, friends and etc., but likewise your pride, respect and the honor of men) cannot be My disciple.” (Luke 14:33)

    Although personal contact between the brethren is preferable, not everyone is capable of meeting with the brethren face to face (some are home bound or the distance may be a factor), nevertheless many of us are assembling together even now when we converse with one another of like precious faith on forums such as these. It is not necessary (nor advisable baring the Lord’s injunction to separate ourselves from the worldly church) to be joined to one of the various branches of Babylon in order for us to assemble together.

    There’s nothing wrong with meeting in the homes of the brethren for study, this was the practice of the early church and we (Bible Students) continue this same practice. The only time we meet in a building is if a class gets too big or if we’re having a convention. Even then the building is still only a rented hall or something; we own no buildings or church properties. In electing our elders, deacons and etc. we follow the Scriptures.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting Active Member

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    Matthew 7:1-5
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    Luke 6:37
    “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

    John 7:24
    Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

    James 4:11-12
    Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    James 4:12
    There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    Romans 2:1-3
    Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

    Ephesians 4:29
    Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

    Romans 14:1-13
    As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

    Matthew 7:5
    You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    John 8:7
    And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
     
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