Gods Standard is...

[aspen]

I guess you liked a post when someone introduced John 1:1-2 once again..@stunnedbygrace ..and it would then still apply to you..correct?

Well I do not believe in what you may call orthodoxy or heresy. Although, there are areas of belief that are clearly not scriptural. They are extra-scriptural ideas that have been lodged deeply into Christianity and a triune God is one of them. That would be heresy to me and to you for saying this I am heretic I guess. I can show my support, can you?

Bless you,

APAK

See....that is where the willy and the nilly come into your theology APAK....not establishing a dividing line between heresy and orthodoxy invites error.

Now, if you are claiming your interpretation the Bible as your dividing line then I can work with that.

Yes. The doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the Incarnation comprise my dividing line between orthodoxy and heresy. I do have a scriptural understand of both doctrines and good understanding of the arguments used by The Nicene Fathers during the first three councils. My view is supported by the Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches and the wider body of Protestant Churches.

If you are interested in discussing the doctrine of the Trinity in detail, we could start another thread, but, honestly, this issue is settled for me and it sounds like it is settled for you so not sure if the discussion would hold my interest

 

[APAK]

See....that is where the willy and the nilly come into your theology APAK....not establishing a dividing line between heresy and orthodoxy invites error.

Now, if you are claiming your interpretation the Bible as your dividing line then I can work with that.

Yes. The doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the Incarnation comprise my dividing line between orthodoxy and heresy. I do have a scriptural understand of both doctrines and good understanding of the arguments used by The Nicene Fathers during the first three councils. My view is supported by the Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches and the wider body of Protestant Churches.

If you are interested in discussing the doctrine of the Trinity in detail, we could start another thread, but, honestly, this issue is settled for me and it sounds like it is settled for you so not sure if the discussion would hold my interest

Good luck with your traditional beliefs Aspen
Any time you may want my interpretation of scripture, please ask. I will comply. I believe everyone should continue to hone their spiritual and mental skills and attitude toward the word of God.

Keeping walking in Christ, always.

Bless you..APAK

 

[101G]

what APAK is speak is nothing but vain philosophy, and deceit, with no scriptual support. Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ".

we are after the scriptures, the word of God.

now if something is newly discovered, Good, but the scriptures must support it in some way. scripture must backup what one says.

PICJAG.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I could never figure out what is the difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit...

 

[101G]

I could never figure out what is the difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit...

Correct, God is a Spirit, and Father is just one of his, the Holy Spirit "Titles". same one person.

PICJAG.

 

[amadeus]

Theotokos!

Or... "their rebellion"

Mariva Maria (mar-ee'-ah);
Word Origin: Hebrew, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 3137

Mary or Miriam = "their rebellion"

 

[Taken]

Perfection. And who BUT God is perfect? None. Jesus had to be God Himself, as only God is perfect...in ALL His ways. How could any BUT God incarnate atone for our sins? Anything less would not meet His standard. Jesus was/is perfect as God is perfect.
There is no other way ♥ How could any other than God Himself atone for our sin? Our redemption will only be complete through Gods standard...perfection through Him in the person of The Christ.
Thoughts?

Deut.18
[13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I could never figure out what is the difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit...

Father ~ Called God,;thoughts, mind, ideas, knowledge, wisdom

Holy Spirit ~ (Called Christ); Power

Son~ (Called Jesus); communicative word, speech, expressing the Thought into words.

Son (Lord), Father (God), Spirit (Almighty)
Lord God Almighty.

ALL three together, is HOW God can create and make All things...;
the knowledge, thoughts, and the power to accomplish, and the word to express...

Gen 1 begins with Gods IDEA of a Heaven and Earth, and immediately His Spirit (Power) and His word (that He said), causes His Idea to come into existence.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Helen]

what does Mary mean, do you think?

Do you mean her name, or what she represented, or what?

I think it was in post #192.

↑Aspen said-
Hmm
I love Mary and all, but she did not perfect Jesus.....remember he was with God from the beginning and therefore perfect from the beginning.

I responded with:-

"No I did not mean that...what I was meaning was, Jesus was born of Mary- flesh. Therefore He had within him humanity so He had the 'potential' of committing sin. Therefore His victory over it was greater.

If ( as some believe) He could NOT sin, then there was no contest and and no victory of the Last 'Adam' over sin. Old Adam , in a way, had the victory over his tempter in the Last Adam.

God always wins. And we will see that glory at the very end. God wins."

End quote .

 

[aspen]

Seems to me that God choose to reveal Himself to us in a manner in which we were able to accept Him. I think of the Father as God’s Mind, which He reintroduced to the warriors of the OT. Jesus is Heart, revealed when we could accept Him. The Holy Spirit is Will, and we are comforted and empowered to worship and serve because He came to lead us.

All aspects of God are so real, pure, and perfect that they are their own personages, both separate and the same God - fully three and fully one. We are called to be part of His Body, as well. So we will be perfected and deified and joined with Him for eternity.

 

[brakelite]

hmm, maybe. I don't know

07404 רכלה rᵉkullah rek-ool-law’
pass part of 07402; n f; BDB-940a {See TWOT on 2165 @@ "2165a" }
AV-merchandise 2, traffick 2; 4
1) merchandise, traffic, trade
07402 רכל rakal raw-kal’
a primitive root; v; BDB-940a {See TWOT on 2165 }
AV-merchant 17; 17
1) to go about (meaning dubious)
1a) (Qal) trafficker, trader (participle) (subst)
07400 רכיל rakiyl raw-keel’
from 07402 a scandal-monger (as travelling about); n m; BDB-940b {See TWOT on 2165 @@ "2165b" }
AV-slander 2, talebearer 2, talebearer + 01980 1, carry tales 1; 6
1) slander, slanderer, tale bearer, informer

Consider how slanderous and dubious the advertising industry is....the very backbone of merchandising.

 

[brakelite]

deified

???

 

[brakelite]

I do see how you're looking at it but...from your perspective, its a possibility that Jesus could have very well sinned. But...I don't believe He could have because all that God said concerning Him would have been failed prophecy. And failed prophecy from Gods own mouth! I do see how you're looking at it but I can't see it that way...what God declares to His prophets always happens exactly as He has said.

Prophecy is conditional in many cases. In this case, conditional on Jesus overcoming. If Jesus had not the potential to sin...if wickedness and righteousness was for Him not a choice, then He could not be our example; He could not succour them that are tempted. He was tempted in all ways that we can, but without sin. As @"ByGrace" said, if He could not have sinned, then the temptation in the wilderness is a mockery and a lie. So also would it be a lie that He is fully man. He is/was man in every sense of the word...born of sinful flesh and at the mercy of the same temptations, and fleshly lusts that brought us down, walking over the same ground that Adam walked, but without succumbing in any way whatsoever. It is in Him therefore that we can have confidence that by His strength we too can be overcomers.

 

[aspen]

???

Perfected

You haven’t heard of the early churches’ teaching of Deification, I guess

 

[brakelite]

Perfected

You haven’t heard of the early churches’ teaching of Deification, I guess

I'm willing to hear what they have taught, but I am immediately reminded of the Mormon concept of our becoming gods, and Satan's temptation in the garden, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil, suggesting that God was holding back something that was to Eve's benefit. Like He didn't want any competition. But, explain if you will....

 

[Nancy]

what does Mary mean, do you think?

Well, Mary Is a given name for a female.
So many different meanings to that name. Even in Hebrew!

 

[aspen]

I'm willing to hear what they have taught, but I am immediately reminded of the Mormon concept of our becoming gods, and Satan's temptation in the garden, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil, suggesting that God was holding back something that was to Eve's benefit. Like He didn't want any competition. But, explain if you will....

Understandable. It is much different. Basically, it means that we will become perfected and brought into perfect Union with God. Right now we are in relationship with God - in Heaven we will be in perfect Union with His will and loving others perfectly (without sin)

 

[Nancy]

The replies all sound nice and churchy... "Spiritual", even. But, none of them come close to itemizing the standards God so carefully gave to human beings. We already have them written out for us.... God spent a good deal of time and Bible space making sure there could be no mistakes for us...…. like vaguely and nebulously saying, "the standard is Jesus."

And the question asked by the OP was "God's Standard is".... not "Is Jesus perfect?"

"

And the question asked by the OP was "God's Standard is".... not "Is Jesus perfect?"​

These can be connected as, since Gods standard (singular) is PERFECTION and, only the Christ could ever fill those shoes -this post is NOT about "itemizing" or counting all of Gods precepts, it is about our PERFECT existence in Christ alone. We live out His precepts as we "work out our own salvation". I will NEVER believe there a single human being on this earth right now, or in the past that is PERFECT IN ALL THEIR WAYS!
I feel a bit of angst from you Willie. Is it just a misunderstanding??

 

[Nancy]

Dude, I have enough cake that I can have it, eat it, AND have plenty left over to pelt you with!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Prophecy is conditional in many cases. In this case, conditional on Jesus overcoming. If Jesus had not the potential to sin...if wickedness and righteousness was for Him not a choice, then He could not be our example; He could not succour them that are tempted. He was tempted in all ways that we can, but without sin. As @"ByGrace" said, if He could not have sinned, then the temptation in the wilderness is a mockery and a lie. So also would it be a lie that He is fully man. He is/was man in every sense of the word...born of sinful flesh and at the mercy of the same temptations, and fleshly lusts that brought us down, walking over the same ground that Adam walked, but without succumbing in any way whatsoever. It is in Him therefore that we can have confidence that by His strength we too can be overcomers.

I just can't go there. It just won't happen. But I'm fine with you seeing it that way. As I said when I was talking with Helen earlier, I understand your thoughts on it, but I do not think all that God foretold through the prophets was hanging in the balance, in danger of being wiped out and God standing there with egg on His face. What God says will happen, it happens.

Almost all of the OT, all of Gods avowals and promises, was not in danger of being wiped out, with God and the angels looking on in trepidation at whether Jesus would or would not sin and destroy it all. (In my opinion.)

Maybe how you see it depends on if you think Jesus is God.