Gods Standard is...

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Enoch111

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I could never figure out what is the difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit...
And why's that? Within the Godhead, the Father is the Head or authority over the Son and the Holy Spirit, and when all things have been subdued by the Son, He will hand over all authority back to the Father.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Father and the Son, and the Spirit proceeded from the Father and the Son.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3)

And when all things shall be subdued unto him [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [the Father] that put all things under him [the Son], that God [the Father] may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

He shall glorify me [the Son]: for he [the Spirit] shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he [the Spirit] shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (Jn 16:14,15)
 

Enoch111

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So many different meanings to that name. Even in Hebrew!
Mary (Maria) is the English equivalent for the Hebrew Miriam (Miryam). But the meaning is unclear. Some claim it means "rebellious" but that is the exact opposite of who Mary the mother of Jesus was. So we can scratch that, and a few other meaningless meanings. Some claim it is derived from Egyptian words, but that is just a guess.
 
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brakelite

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Maybe how you see it depends on if you think Jesus is God.
As man, Jesus retained all His Godly attributes and identity, but laid aside all His power and became fully man, living by faith, relying wholly on His Father for all things, dependant on HIs Father's strength just as we must rely on Christ's strength.
As for Jesus having the potential for sin. Yes, if He had sinned, all would have been lost. Everything. So not just man would have been eternally bereft of a Saviour, but God Himself would have lost His Son. The Son wrapped Himself within humanity on an eternal basis. He didn't temporarily become man and revert to being God. If He had failed, there was no plan B that would see Him return to heaven and continue as if nothing happened. There was always a massive risk ...which brings more glory to the Godhead that such a covenant would be made and such a risk taken. God did indeed love the world so much that He gave His own Son to the human race. When scripture says the Son became flesh, it means it. Not just physical flesh and blood, but flesh as in carnal natural man. Fully capable of sin. Only without the propensities that man is born with. But throughout His life it was a constant struggle to fight temptation and to successfully carry out His mission...to present Himself a sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God.
At any time He could have returned to heaven and said, 'nah, people ain't worth the bother". But He would have been the only human being to be in glory. He thought heaven without us, was not worth grasping even at the cost of Himself.

―Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.‖ Hebrews 2:14 18

―Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.‖ Hebrews 4:14-16

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.‖ Philippians 2:5 -8
When Christ became our substitute and surety, it was as a human being. He came as a man, and rendered the obedience of human nature to the only true God. He came not to show us what God could do, but what God did do, and what man, a partaker of the divine nature, can do. It was the human nature of Christ that endured the temptations in the wilderness, not His divine nature. In His human nature He endured the contradiction of sinners against Himself. He lived a perfect human life. Jesus is everything to us, and He says to us, "Without Me ye can do nothing." Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam’s position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured.
 

Nancy

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It is one thing to not have the faith to fulfill the commands of the Lord...and quite another to teach others from that lack of faith.

It is better to say...I cannot...but others can....rather than I cannot and others can do no better than me. Humility is better than foolish pride. And we will be judged on this.

Jesus said...
Mat. 5:19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now take a command like...Be perfect as God is perfect.

You may not believe you can enter into Christ to walk like that. Or that such a walk even exists. And that's one thing. But to teach others from that doubt seals the deal against you. So if you have no faith in entering into the perfect walk of Christ...at LEAST don't spread the unbelief around or else you will be working directly against God's will.

Whoever doesn't gather with Jesus...scatters abroad.

I can't agree with you Epi, sry.
"Be perfect as God is perfect." IMHO is saying to be complete in His Love. God is Perfect in ALL His ways, are you?
 

Episkopos

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I can't agree with you Epi, sry.
"Be perfect as God is perfect." IMHO is saying to be complete in His Love. God is Perfect in ALL His ways, are you?

That's fine!

We all need a saviour. Now that saviour can just be a constant forgiver...in which case that's not a Saviour. A Saviour is one who rescues you from the trouble...Jesus saves us from our sins...not in our sins.


It seems like a subtle difference I suppose.

Mat. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

We are but vessels...to be filled with our desires...or surrendered to contain Jesus Christ. Do we judge a fine wine by the quality of the bottle? Or is it about the content? So if Christ is living through us...we will walk as He walked. Not because of our value or power...but because of His.

But you keep taking the emphasis from Christ onto me or people in general. But this is not about us.

Jesus is our perfection. We take on His grace and power by entering into Him. You will find this backed up in spades in the bible. But even better you will find that in Him all things are possible. :)
 
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brakelite

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I just can't go there. It just won't happen. But I'm fine with you seeing it that way. As I said when I was talking with Helen earlier, I understand your thoughts on it, but I do not think all that God foretold through the prophets was hanging in the balance, in danger of being wiped out and God standing there with egg on His face. What God says will happen, it happens.

Almost all of the OT, all of Gods avowals and promises, was not in danger of being wiped out, with God and the angels looking on in trepidation at whether Jesus would or would not sin and destroy it all. (In my opinion.)

Maybe how you see it depends on if you think Jesus is God.
For example, when Jesus was woken up by HIs disciples to meet the storm, He was in perfect peace. There was no trace of fear in word or look, for no fear was in His heart. But He wasn't at peace because He knew that within Himself He was untouchable. It was not as the Lord of glory that enabled Him to rest so peacefully, despite what raged all around Him. That power He had laid down, and He says, "I can of Mine own self do nothing". He trusted in the Father's might. It was in faith -- faith in God's love and care -- that Jesus rested, and the power of that word which stilled the storm was the power of His Father. John 5:30
When the apostle John says that it is the spirit of antichrist that declares that Jesus didn't come in the flesh, this is what he was talking about. It is replacing the reality of the human nature of Christ with something else. It is a denial of His humanity. This concept is reflected in Catholicism with the so called "immaculate conception". It removes the human nature of Christ and gives Him a nature of perfection which He supposedly inherited from His mother. One must then ask, from whence did mum get it? The whole concept removes grace and faith in Christ from the redemption story, and places our hopes in systems and sacraments and prayers to saints etc for salvation.
 

101G

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But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3)
why not say, "God is the head of JESUS?" why used the title christ? ... well. and why not "the head of the (woman/Wife) is the (man/husband). the head of every man is Christ.

is this scripture speaking of authority or ......... "SOURCE"... (smile).

the source of that flesh that servant called "christ" is God, and the source of every man (born again believer) is Christ, and the source of the woman is the Man for she came out of man. Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. and chaist came from God.

the head of the river is a spring. it's source.

PICJAG.
 
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Nancy

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That's fine!

We all need a saviour. Now that saviour can just be a constant forgiver...in which case that's not a saviour. A Saviour is one who rescues you from the trouble...Jesus saves us from our sins...not in our sins.

It seems like a subtle difference I suppose.

We are but vessels...to be filled with our desires...or surrendered to contain Jesus Christ. Do we judge a fine wine by the quality of the bottle? Or is it about the content? So if Christ is living through us...we will walk as He walked. Not because of our value or power...but because of His.

But you keep taking the emphasis from Christ onto me or people in general. But this is not about us.

Jesus is our perfection. We take on His grace and power by entering into Him. You will find this backed up in spades in the bible. But even better you will find that in Him all things are possible. :)

Yes, I agree with what you say here ♥. Yet do you never stumble? Ever?
 
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brakelite

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why not say, "God is the head of JESUS?" why used the title christ? ... well. and why not "the head of the (woman/Wife) is the (man/husband). the head of every man is Christ.

is this scripture speaking of authority or ......... "SOURCE"... (smile).

the source of that flesh that servant called "christ" is God, and the source of every man (born again believer) is Christ, and the source of the woman is the Man for she came out of man. Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. and chaist came from God.

the head of the river is a spring. it's source.

PICJAG.
So when John says "God gave His only begotten Son...", if the Father was the source of His Son does that not make the Son equal to and of the same nature (divine) of that source, His Father? Not just a partaker of the divine nature as we may have, but inherent in HIs very being? Like Father like Son?
 

Episkopos

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Yes, I agree with what you say here ♥. Yet do you never stumble? Ever?


Of course. Getting into the Spirit is very hard indeed. And staying there brings new challenges. I have experience of going in and out. So I have walked in His power...and my own. The difference is like night and day. And yet in my own strength I am still led by the Spirit and feel His presence at times.

There are many distances from Jesus Christ. Many followed Him from a distance...but few walked with Him.

It's the same with us. I have walked at many distances including very near.

This is what discipleship is about...learning to walk closely..as close as we allow ourselves by our limited faith and faithfulness.

I feel I will be judged harder because I have experienced much. God is perfectly fair in His judgments. Sometimes I just feel like I can't handle that much closeness to God...I lack the maturity to just remain there. I think that THIS is what Paul was talking about. Winning Christ is getting to the place where we are mature IN holiness so as to remain always in His presence.

That is my walk as well. To win Christ...to apprehend what God has allowed me to experience. To grow into His armour...and feel at home under the shadow of His wings.

Until that time there is training...towards that high calling.

To those who are not seeking or striving...I encourage a return to sound doctrine and a seeking attitude...with humility....knowing that we must be pleasing to God.

To Him be all honour and glory.
 

quietthinker

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I was reading earlier and seeing the topic is God's standard I thought I'd share these snippets....

'Love one another' says the Saviour, 'as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.' Christ has given us an example of pure disinterested love. You have not yet seen your deficiency in this respect, and your great need of this heavenly attainment, without which all your good purposes, and your zeal, even if it be of that nature that you could give your goods to feed the poor and your body to be burned, is nothing. You need the charity which sufferers long, is not easily provoked, beareth all things, beleiveth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Without the Spirit of love, no one can be like Christ. With this living principle in the soul, no one can be like the world.

The conduct of Christians is like that of their Lord. He erected the standard, and it is left for us to say whether or not we will rally around it. Our Lord and Saviour laid aside his dominion, His riches and glory, and sought after us, that he might save us from misery and make us like himself. He humbled himself and took our nature that we might be able to learn from him and, imitating his life of benevolence and self denial, follow him step by step to heaven. You cannot equal the copy; but you can resemble it and, according to your ability, do likewise. 'Thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength, and your neighbour as yourself. Such love must dwell in your hearts, that you will be ready to give treasures and honors of this world if thereby you may influence one soul to engage in the services of Christ.

EGW Testimonies for the Church No.2 pg 169-170
 

101G

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So when John says "God gave His only begotten Son...", if the Father was the source of His Son does that not make the Son equal to and of the same nature (divine) of that source, His Father? Not just a partaker of the divine nature as we may have, but inherent in HIs very being? Like Father like Son?
one correction, not equal "to" but equal "WITH". scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". this is the beauty of "Diversified Oneness". the Son is the equal share "with", hold that thought. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". your OWN ARM is you. again, this is the beauty of "Diversified Oneness" in the term of Father which is the source, or the beginning of something... listen, Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and [of such as have] cattle. did you get that? now his brother, Genesis 4:21 "And his brother's name [was] Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. are you getting what we're saying now. they were the originator, or the "SOURCE" of what they did.

now one big understanding of the term "Father", this is for edification. scripture, James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

follow us, as the apostle say, "follow me". the term "Father here in reference to God is the Greek word G3962 πατήρ pater (pa-teer'). now what is God the Father of here .... Lights. well let's see what kind of"Lights". if one would, while you're online go to the Blue Letter bible. and here's the link to the tem G3962 πατήρ pater. Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
just come down to Outline of Biblical Usage.
while you read the definition given, pay attention to outline III. is states,
III God is called the Father
of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler
so what are the heavenlt luminaries this definition is speaking of? go to dictionary.com and type in "luminary", and look at definition #1. a celestial body, as the sun or moon. here are the Lights God is the Father of that James speaks of.
do this sound filimiler?, it should, Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?".

God who is called the Father of Lights is because he is the "source" of their existance. the stars, the actual stars in the heavens and the sun and moon which are called his sons. for he is their Father ... of LIGHTS.

Now, is God the source of the Christ? ... yes that flesh and blood. but the Spirit, who is JESUS, NO. again, the spirit that was G2758 κενόω kenoo, according to Phil 2:7 is the EQUAL SHARE which is the same source. hence the head of Christ/flesh and blood, but not the head of JESUS, who is spirit .... (smile).

see it now?.

PICJAG.
 
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Nancy

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Of course. Getting into the Spirit is very hard indeed. And staying there brings new challenges. I have experience of going in and out. So I have walked in His power...and my own. The difference is like night and day. And yet in my own strength I am still led by the Spirit and feel His presence at times.

There are many distances from Jesus Christ. Many followed Him from a distance...but few walked with Him.

It's the same with us. I have walked at many distances including very near.

This is what discipleship is about...learning to walk closely..as close as we allow ourselves by our limited faith and faithfulness.

I feel I will be judged harder because I have experienced much. God is perfectly fair in His judgments. Sometimes I just feel like I can't handle that much closeness to God...I lack the maturity to just remain there. I think that THIS is what Paul was talking about. Winning Christ is getting to the place where we are mature IN holiness so as to remain always in His presence.

That is my walk as well. To win Christ...to apprehend what God has allowed me to experience. To grow into His armour...and feel at home under the shadow of His wings.

Until that time there is training...towards that high calling.

To those who are not seeking or striving...I encourage a return to sound doctrine and a seeking attitude...with humility....knowing that we must be pleasing to God.

To Him be all honour and glory.
"Of course. Getting into the Spirit is very hard indeed. And staying there brings new challenges. I have experience of going in and out. So I have walked in His power...and my own. The difference is like night and day. And yet in my own strength I am still led by the Spirit and feel His presence at times. "
Whew, so glad to hear this ♥
How comforting to know that He remains faithful even when we fall short...miss the mark.

"I feel I will be judged harder because I have experienced much. God is perfectly fair in His judgments. Sometimes I just feel like I can't handle that much closeness to God...I lack the maturity to just remain there. I think that THIS is what Paul was talking about. Winning Christ is getting to the place where we are mature IN holiness so as to remain always in His presence."
'I lack the maturity to just remain there.'
As do I but, I also lack the discipline :oops:
And, discipline is just yet another constant prayer to over come with myself.
It's so comforting to know that "He who began a good work..." ♥

"That is my walk as well. To win Christ...to apprehend what God has allowed me to experience. To grow into His armour...and feel at home under the shadow of His wings. "I was talking to my one sister today about the armor of God, she had mentioned that she needs to learn how to don the armor of God each day. I wondered, why even take it off at all? I mean, once it is in place, and you learn how to apply each one. I say it is a one time deal. Something we never take off as, the fiery darts of Satan are never ceasing...

"Until that time there is training...towards that high calling.
Yes, we just need stay in the race set before us.
To those who are not seeking or striving...I encourage a return to sound doctrine and a seeking attitude...with humility....knowing that we must be pleasing to God."
Amen to that Epi, good post, Ty :)
In His Name always,
nancy

 

stunnedbygrace

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For example, when Jesus was woken up by HIs disciples to meet the storm, He was in perfect peace. There was no trace of fear in word or look, for no fear was in His heart. But He wasn't at peace because He knew that within Himself He was untouchable. It was not as the Lord of glory that enabled Him to rest so peacefully, despite what raged all around Him. That power He had laid down, and He says, "I can of Mine own self do nothing". He trusted in the Father's might. It was in faith -- faith in God's love and care -- that Jesus rested, and the power of that word which stilled the storm was the power of His Father. John 5:30
When the apostle John says that it is the spirit of antichrist that declares that Jesus didn't come in the flesh, this is what he was talking about. It is replacing the reality of the human nature of Christ with something else. It is a denial of His humanity. This concept is reflected in Catholicism with the so called "immaculate conception". It removes the human nature of Christ and gives Him a nature of perfection which He supposedly inherited from His mother. One must then ask, from whence did mum get it? The whole concept removes grace and faith in Christ from the redemption story, and places our hopes in systems and sacraments and prayers to saints etc for salvation.

I don't deny that Jesus left His place and took on flesh. So let's just nip that right now. He came down to our level, stooped down, emptied Himself to have us. The Creator of all! God Himself!

No, I don't deny He did that, so please don't say again that I deny that and it is the spirit of antichrist.
 

Enoch111

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why not say, "God is the head of JESUS?" why used the title christ?
You are now questioning how the Holy Spirit has expressed God's truth. And that is because you have a heretical view of the Trinity.

Jesus is indeed the Christ, and the Holy Spirit chose to say "the head of Christ is God", because God (the Father) has made that same Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).

Yes, and "head" is a metaphor for authority. So what that verse is saying is:

1. The head of Christ is God
2. The head of the man is Christ
3. The head of the woman is the man

The doctrine of headship is generally ignored by Christians because there are few who teach the reason for Christian women to cover their heads during worship.
 
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brakelite

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I don't deny that Jesus left His place and took on flesh. So let's just nip that right now. He came down to our level, stooped down, emptied Himself to have us. The Creator of all! God Himself!

No, I don't deny He did that, so please don't say again that I deny that and it is the spirit of antichrist.
I wasn't suggesting you were denying the Son of God had been made flesh. I am not speaking of flesh and blood...I mean the flesh that Paul refers to when he speaks of the carnal nature. Jesus was born with the same carnal nature as we are...the flesh of fallen mankind, not as some teach, the flesh of Adam before the fall.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Okay, I don't know what you're talking about then. I'll leave you to this matter that is so crucial to you.
 

stunnedbygrace

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For gosh sakes, God does not demand that I wear a scarf when I worship Him!

That's it, I need a break from here. Its painfully apparent.
 
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faithfulness

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Of course. Getting into the Spirit is very hard indeed. And staying there brings new challenges. I have experience of going in and out. So I have walked in His power...and my own. The difference is like night and day. And yet in my own strength I am still led by the Spirit and feel His presence at times.

There are many distances from Jesus Christ. Many followed Him from a distance...but few walked with Him.

It's the same with us. I have walked at many distances including very near.

This is what discipleship is about...learning to walk closely..as close as we allow ourselves by our limited faith and faithfulness.

I feel I will be judged harder because I have experienced much. God is perfectly fair in His judgments. Sometimes I just feel like I can't handle that much closeness to God...I lack the maturity to just remain there. I think that THIS is what Paul was talking about. Winning Christ is getting to the place where we are mature IN holiness so as to remain always in His presence.

That is my walk as well. To win Christ...to apprehend what God has allowed me to experience. To grow into His armour...and feel at home under the shadow of His wings.

Until that time there is training...towards that high calling.

To those who are not seeking or striving...I encourage a return to sound doctrine and a seeking attitude...with humility....knowing that we must be pleasing to God.
To Him be all honour and glory.

Just wish to say thanks for the clarity of teaching in this post/testimony; for impartation, for not holding us back, but taking us higher/deeper/farther into understanding and faith. Into Him.
Will show this post to a sister'friend with whom I've been sharing your testimony and how it's affected my life. Although she doesn't agree that the saints are 'greater' than the faithful but the other way around. :)
 
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Episkopos

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Just wish to say thanks for the clarity of teaching in this post/testimony; for impartation, for not holding us back, but taking us higher/deeper/farther into understanding and faith. Into Him.
Will show this post to a sister'friend with whom I've been sharing your testimony and how it's affected my life. Although she doesn't agree that the saints are 'greater' than the faithful but the other way around. :)


Thank you for your kind words dear sister. I feel often that people don't like to be encouraged in the race of faith. But you have a seekers' heart that is precious in God's sight. :)

His blessing and peace on you.