The Crucified Life

[Episkopos]

The we can walk in the resurrection. That there is a difference between resisting sin, and walking in the Spirit.

So many don't believe that we are to do so.

Many believe that we are consigned to lives characterized by weakness and sinfulness. I believe that the weakness in our flesh, of whatever description, is there to propel us into the spirit life.

I believe we can prove the truth of this to ourselves, simply by focusing on God, on Scripture, on His ways and His things, and that by doing so we don't sin, because we are doing righteousness.

You can prove this to yourself in 5 minutes time. For 5 minutes, even for 1 minute, focus on God's love for you, His provision for you, His undying commitment to you. For 5 minutes focus on this. Then repeat. And you'll have 10 minutes. Repeat. You see what I'm saying. Something knocks you off your feet? Stand right back up, and stay there.

We enter by faith in Jesus into the grace in which . . . We Stand.

Much love!

You are describing here the life that's trying to be crucified. The crucified life is watching from the backseat while Jesus drives the car. It is for the flesh to be helpless on a wall....out of the way...so that you walk in a resurrection power in His presence...ALWAYS. It is the keeping power of God. No effort is needed or wanted. The yoke is easy and the burden light....but very hard place to get into. it takes a sacrifice to God of oneself...and the Spirit descending on you...like at Pentecost.

Not that trying is bad...not at all. That's what we are to do when we are NOT in the Spirit. We are to be faithful whether at home in the body...or in the Spirit.

But lets' get our terminology right.

There is a big difference between being led or inspired by the Spirit and being IN the Spirit. It's the difference between feeling some moisture in the air and being drowned.

The problem with your attitude is that you are trying to fit the bible into your experience thereby diminishing the truth to what you know. There's no humility or room for growth in that.

Better to just be honest and humble about doing the very best you can do...albeit in your own strength.

Very few people have ever known anything but that. This thread is to expose others to the testimony of they who have been dealt with by the cross of Christ...dead....so as to live by a life without any spot or wrinkle of sin. Rare indeed.

So your scale is off according to this thread.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I like this!

That there are two types of Christians, one that is in Christ, and one that is not. I believe all who are born again both are indwelt by Christ, and are in Christ.

As I understand @Episkopos , he teaches that we must become "in Christ" to live a holy life, but that this doesn't happen at regeneration, instead, it happens through our determination to die to the world, allowing us to release ourselves into His resurrection life, and live holy. Hopefully he will correct me if this is not a correct presentation.

My understanding is that we are in Christ when we are born again, and what remains is for us to take up our power in the Holy Spirit, and live.

Much love!

Mmm...I see him not so much saying there are 2 types of Christians so much as saying there are two different places and any Christian can be in only one place at a time - either abiding or not abiding.

I think you have not yet seen that many men can be describing the same experience while using very different words...

 

[marks]

Mmm...I see him not so much saying there are 2 types of Christians so much as saying there are two different places and any Christian can be in only one place at a time - either abiding or not abiding.

I think you have not yet seen that many men can be describing the same experience while using very different words...

Hi stunnedbygrace,

I see that people use many different ways to describe many things, sometimes the same, and sometimes different. This is why I desire to use Biblical terminology, so we can be sure we're saying the same things.

I think Episkopos' words are that there are Christians who are "in Christ" and those who are not.

With this I disagree.

If any man be in Christ . . . he is a new creation.

If any man not be in Christ, then he is not a new creation.

To be born again is to be that new creation, that's my undertstanding.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

I like this!

That there are two types of Christians, one that is in Christ, and one that is not. I believe all who are born again both are indwelt by Christ, and are in Christ.

As I understand @Episkopos , he teaches that we must become "in Christ" to live a holy life, but that this doesn't happen at regeneration, instead, it happens through our determination to die to the world, allowing us to release ourselves into His resurrection life, and live holy. Hopefully he will correct me if this is not a correct presentation.

My understanding is that we are in Christ when we are born again, and what remains is for us to take up our power in the Holy Spirit, and live.

Much love!

Ok I'll bite on this post!

You are right. Except for this...

I believe all who are born again both are indwelt by Christ, and are in Christ.

We are indwelt by Christ when we are born again. Yes. We have received a FREE sample of the life of God in us. But to unleash the POWER of that life we need to die. The part of us that sins needs to be nailed to the wall so to speak. Now we can't kill ourselves to produce this life so we need to go to God and offer ALL to Him. IF He accepts our sacrifice THEN He will crucify us and let us walk in the power of the risen Lord.

In a sense we are all "in" Christ...meaning we are all counted as belonging to Him. But actually being IN Christ is I have stated above. We can't bear an eternal kind of fruit unless we are abiding in Him. Without Him (being in Him) we can do nothing.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

There is a subtle message here...Jesus doesn't say If I abide in you you will bear fruit. The bearing of fruit is ONLY as we abide in Him. That's where the modern church is out to lunch on. It claims that being born again is enough to bear holy fruit. And this is false. Just look at the modern church.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

So then no going to God to be approved by God and empowered by the Spirit equals...no eternal fruit.


2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

This shows that not every branch "in" Him is actually IN Him.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Walking IN Him is a walk of glory...from glory to glory. It is His strength which is grace through faith.

But make no mistake about it...you have to seek God with ALL you have and are to get that level of walk. Getting Jesus into you is a free gift that costs us nothing. But unleashing His power so as to abide in you costs you everything. That's why no one wants to do it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi stunnedbygrace,

I see that people use many different ways to describe many things, sometimes the same, and sometimes different. This is why I desire to use Biblical terminology, so we can be sure we're saying the same things.

I think Episkopos' words are that there are Christians who are "in Christ" and those who are not.

With this I disagree.

If any man be in Christ . . . he is a new creation.

If any man not be in Christ, then he is not a new creation.

To be born again is to be that new creation, that's my undertstanding.

Much love!
Mark

We go in and out of abiding in Him. But He never stops being in us. He is faithful even when we are not.

This is to say that when we are abiding in Him, we are in trust. When we leave that trust to drown in worries, we are not abiding in trust.

One is running our race of trust. The other is to stumble in that race. But you are right to say, get back up on your feet, begin in trust again. A righteous man may stumble seven times by he always rises again, but the wicked stumble at calamity.

 

[marks]

We go in and out of abiding in Him. But He never stops being in us. He is faithful even when we are not.

This is to say that when we are abiding in Him, we are in trust. When we leave that trust to drown in worries, we are not abiding in trust.

One is running our race of trust. The other is to stumble in that race. But you are right to say, get back up on your feet, begin in trust again. A righteous man may stumble seven times by he always rises again, but the wicked stumble at calamity.

Yes we may stumble. But this does not mean we cease to be in Christ, because then we would cease to be born again.

We are baptized into Jesus' death and burial, so we can join Him in resurrection. Do we stop being immersed into His death?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The problem with your attitude is that you are trying to fit the bible into your experience thereby diminishing the truth to what you know. There's no humility or room for growth in that.

I don't think you can know this about me. And what you write is not true. Why do you find it necessary to comment on my attitude, when this is not something you can really even know?

I'd like to respond to what else you've written,

But is there any way at all to get away from all this personal nonesense?

So many people want to tell me what's wrong with me, but I want to talk about the Bible, and Jesus, and our lives in Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes we may stumble. But this does not mean we cease to be in Christ, because then we would cease to be born again.

We are baptized into Jesus' death and burial, so we can join Him in resurrection. Do we stop being immersed into His death?

Much love!

Mmm...we do not become not His child because we stumble in trust. He is very patient. We do not become unborn from above. He is still in us.
To stop trusting is to stop abiding in Him, but He does not stop remaining in us.

 

[marks]

Mmm...we do not become not His child because we stumble in trust. He is very patient. We do not become unborn from above. He is still in us.
To stop trusting is to stop abiding in Him, but He does not stop remaining in us.

So then, where do we find the teaching in the Bible that we stop being immersed into Him? That we are no longer in Him?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't think you can know this about me. And what you write is not true. Why do you find it necessary to comment on my attitude, when this is not something you can really even know?

I'd like to respond to what else you've written,

But is there any way at all to get away from all this personal nonesense?

So many people want to tell me what's wrong with me, but I want to talk about the Bible, and Jesus, and our lives in Him.

Marks, he is right that our attitude is to diminish the bible to what we currently know and experience. The reason he knows this is the same reason I know it - because we have done the same thing.

There is much more than we know that He wants to tell us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So then, where do we find the teaching in the Bible that we stop being immersed into Him? That we are no longer in Him?

Much love!

In the verses about abiding. Abide in Me, remain in Me. Keep trusting Me. Don't fear.

And don't fear being cut off. He will prune and prune, (without your permission even!) He will strip EVERYTHING from one of His children to have them and keep them safe. He will prune until there is only a stump left, but it will be a holy stump!

 

[Episkopos]

So then, where do we find the teaching in the Bible that we stop being immersed into Him? That we are no longer in Him?

Much love!

We are admonished as Christians to put on Christ. To put on the full armour of God. To put on the new Man.

If everybody was doing that already and automatically, there would be no need to go to the throne of grace to get more grace. There would be no need to exhort people to do so.

Paul is always speaking...or almost always...of a person who has gone that extra mile (get it?) to put on Christ.

The striving and the effort is not in trying to be crucified in this case...but to offer ourselves fully to God for HIM to act on us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is done from start to finish by trust. You received the Holy Spirit by trust. Your one job is to remain there in trust.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is done from start to finish by trust. You received the Holy Spirit by trust. Your one job is to remain there in trust.

This is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is not as easy as it sounds.

In fact, if we read about Israel in the desert, we see that we make the same mistakes as they did! We worry over temporal provision, fearing how the next check will meet all of our bills. We make it about how much money we have saved rather than trusting the God who can make a pair of shoes last for 40 years.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And THEN, if we get to a firm and unwavering place regarding an earthly thing like temporal provision, finally remaining in trust even though we have only gathered enough for the day, each day, He lets us become very thirsty (seems to disappear), just as it says He let them become very thirsty in the desert...to see what they would do. And we follow them in this too. We don't keep trusting but instead begin to worry, this time for our spiritual provision!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And so we are like Israel. We think, man oh man, what idiots! If I had seen the wall of water stand up and seen Him save me, I would NEVER then become untrusting or fearful as they did! I would ALWAYS do what He said and trust Him!

And yet...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Its a race of trust. If anyone says its a cakewalk to abide in trust, they have not trusted or been tested so their trust comes out purer with each testing.

If they say its a cakewalk, they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Just in case anyone wonders where I am, it took me 12 years to get to an unwavering trust regarding earthly things. I am finally there. Being harassed daily to stop trusting and begin fussing and worrying again, but so far, my forehead is really hard on this now.

I now look forward to Him telling me about heavenly things, since I have finally believed and trusted Him about earthly things without wavering all over the place.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

12 years seems like such a long time to become unwavering in believing Him about earthly things, but I've got Israel beat by 28 years.