Religious Facade Christianity

[marks]

To me it means...to be given new life by a receiving of the Holy Spirit. But where we diverge is in how we handle everything after that.

OK, thanks!

So my question is, is this then what the Israelites also received that then crossed the Red Sea? I realize you've said you haven't looked into it, I'm interested whenever you may come upon an answer.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We need to understand these things, I think. Jesus found it to be important.

The simple answer is that given that rebirth is found in Jesus' death and resurrection, only then, only in the new covenant are we reborn. They were not. This isn't "one-ups-man-ship", simply talking about what the Bible teaches.

We should not, I think, attempt to define our relationship with God in the New Covenant as being the same as someone else's relationship with God in another covenant.

Much love!

And I think we should not claim something more for ourselves than they had. After all, I've never closed a lions mouth with my faith or raised a woman's dead son, so...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

OK, thanks!

So my question is, is this then what the Israelites also received that then crossed the Red Sea? I realize you've said you haven't looked into it, I'm interested whenever you may come upon an answer.

Much love!

Hmm...they drank from a spiritual rock and that rock was Christ...don't know if that helps you...

 

[Episkopos]

Hmm...they drank from a spiritual rock and that rock was Christ...don't know if that helps you...

1 Cor. 10: 4 "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ."

Maybe marks could explain this ...or at least look into it and get back to us!

 

[marks]

Hmm...they drank from a spiritual rock and that rock was Christ...don't know if that helps you...

Personally I prefer to form doctrine from more definitive statements, which are there.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1 Cor. 10: 4 "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ."

Maybe marks could explain this ...or at least look into it and get back to us!

Perhaps you are wishing to address my question? It was to you I had asked it initially.

Were the Israelites who passed through the Red Sea born again a new creature? Does this quote you posted teach that?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Personally I prefer to form doctrine from more definitive statements, which are there.

Much love!

I'm not really trying to form doctrine. I'm trying to be careful and walk humbly.

 

[marks]

I'm not really trying to form doctrine. I'm trying to be careful and walk humbly.

I find it helpful to understand what the Bible says so that we can know just what it is that God has done in us, and what He means for us to do.

To being careful, and humble, God bless you in it!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Perhaps you are wishing to address my question? It was to you I had asked it initially.

Were the Israelites who passed through the Red Sea born again a new creature? Does this quote you posted teach that?

Much love!

I answered, you just didn't like my answer because I was careful not to claim something for myself that more faithful and righteous men than myself didn't have.

I did also point out that according to Jesus, a teacher of Israel should have known that a man must be born again from above, which I think is notable.

 

[Episkopos]

Perhaps you are wishing to address my question? It was to you I had asked it initially.

Were the Israelites who passed through the Red Sea born again a new creature? Does this quote you posted teach that?

Much love!

It is the equivalent at the lower level of an external witness of Christ. In the building of God the OT is the lower floor....and the NT is the spiritual upper floor...or upper room.

So although the Israelites were not born again by the Spirit yet there was an equivalence in power and experience of the divine. They were saved from the world.

And it was Jesus Christ..before becoming human...who led the people in the wilderness...so then they were led by the Spirit...but in a visible outward way...which is even more fantastical if you think about it. Imagine actually seeing God's glory all day in the form of a cloud or a pillar of fire by night. So Christ walked among them and led them outwardly just as He walks among the spiritual disciples and leads them inwardly.

The first covenant was outward...physical...and the new covenant is inward...spiritual. But the parallels are there for an example for us.

 

[marks]

I answered, you just didn't like my answer because I was careful not to claim something for myself that more faithful and righteous men than myself didn't have.

I did also point out that according to Jesus, a teacher of Israel should have known that a man must be born again from above, which I think is notable.

Ok. I wasn't actually asking you about you, the question was about the Israelites at the Red Sea, and I wasn't asking you to begin with. You chose to jump in, that's fine, it's a public forum, but why, if you don't wish to actually give an answer, for whatever reason.

What was the reason to post? (rhetorical)

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is the equivalent at the lower level of an external witness of Christ. In the building of God the OT is the lower floor....and the NT is the spiritual upper floor...or upper room.

So although the Israelites were not born again by the Spirit yet there was an equivalence in power and experience of the divine. They were saved from the world.

And it was Jesus Christ..before becoming human...who led the people in the wilderness...so then they were led by the Spirit...but in a visible outward way...which is even more fantastical if you think about it. Imagine actually seeing God's glory all day in the form of a cloud or a pillar of fire by night. So Christ walked among them and led them outwardly just as He walks among the spiritual disciples and leads them inwardly.

The first covenant was outward...physical...and the new covenant is inward...spiritual. But the parallels are there for an example for us.

Then do you see how actually being born again, that is, that Christ who led them from outside now becomes united to us spiritually, is fundamentally different?

You write, they were saved from the world. I'm not sure what that means exactly to you, considering that while they were saved from the Egyptians, nearly all of them died in the wilderness serving idols.

When you say, they were saved from the world, what does that mean to you?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Then do you see how actually being born again, that is, that Christ who led them from outside now becomes united to us spiritually, is fundamentally different?

God is righteous and fair. There is a perfect equivalency. God does not love Gentiles more than Jews so as to deceive the Jews and give us an easier time.

To believe the lies and half truths of the modern gospel one has to consider oneself as more favoured than the people who were rejected in the wilderness. God has made the perfect test of our faith...just as He did with them.

Besides it isn't being born again that makes us walk in victory with God. It is by entering into Him where He is to walk in Zion as Jesus walked...in total victory over sin by grace through faith.

Now you don't seem to understand what i say since I have to repeat the same things over and over. So I leave you to God.

 

[marks]

God is righteous and fair. There is a perfect equivalency. God does not love Gentiles more than Jews so as to deceive the Jews and give us an easier time.

To believe the lies and half truths of the modern gospel one has to consider oneself as more favoured than the people who were rejected in the wilderness.

Besides it isn't being born again that makes us walk in victory with God. It is by entering into Him where He is to walk in Zion as Jesus walked...in total victory over sin by grace through faith.

Now you don't seem to understand what i say since I have to repeat the same things over and over. So I leave you to God.

OK. So it sounds like you are saying, no, they were not, but it doesn't matter, because what they were was the same as if they were born again. Is that correct?

 

[marks]

God is righteous and fair. There is a perfect equivalency. God does not love Gentiles more than Jews so as to deceive the Jews and give us an easier time.

I don't see where anyone has said God loves gentiles more, therefore, this is being introduced as a Straw Man. I'm not arguing that God loves Gentiles more, so pretending that I have is completely non-productive.

To believe the lies and half truths of the modern gospel one has to consider oneself as more favoured than the people who were rejected in the wilderness.

I wouldn't know about believing lies in relation to how we may attempt to compare ourselves to others. I think it reasonable that if one is prone to believing lies about God, then one is probably likely to believe lies about themselves. Hardly addresses the question though. The only real content here appears to be to smear the opposition as "believing lies and half truths".

Besides it isn't being born again that makes us walk in victory with God. It is by entering into Him where He is to walk in Zion as Jesus walked...in total victory over sin by grace through faith.

This Walk in Zion . . . yeah.

Being born again unites us with God by His Holy Spirit. Just try to have relationship with God without being born again. I think you will find it severely limited. If any be in Christ, he is a new creature. All things are new. But you know this.

Now you don't seem to understand what i say since I have to repeat the same things over and over. So I leave you to God.

I think I do understand, and that is why you so strongly oppose me.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

How sweet!

We hve 4 generations of cats at our church, and now a few raccoons have joined in, I think it's a mama and her 2 little ones.

Much love!

Yeah, I love raccoons. Some years the young ones get so used to me they jump up on my leg to see if I have food. That year I fed them by hand. I was even able to pet them. But haven't had any that tame since, but they might be the adults now that are bringing me their young. My mother lived in the middle of 100 acres of woods. She started feeding the raccoons and by the time she moved there were 50 raccoons waiting outside her back door at dusk. What a sight. But out of them only one was tame enough to take bread and peanut butter and jam from her hand - Blackie.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

de·lu·sion
/dəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
noun: delusion; plural noun: delusions
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
"the delusion of being watched"
synonyms: misapprehension, mistaken impression, false impression, mistaken belief, misconception, misunderstanding, mistake, error, misinterpretation, misconstruction, misbelief; More
fallacy, illusion, figment of the imagination, fantasy, chimera;
fool's paradise, self-deception
"the male delusion that attractive young women are harboring romantic thoughts about them"

the action of deluding or the state of being deluded.
"what a capacity television has for delusion"
synonyms: deception, misleading, deluding, fooling, tricking, trickery, duping
"a web of delusion"


The wordings of the bible can be easily misinterpreted. That fact is amply illustrated by all the opinions and denominations that have arisen due to the different interpretations and applications that are possible by reading the biblical text in a certain way. We could say that we are experiencing a spiritual Babylon of confusion based on all the different possible human interpretations.

Now nothing is by chance or accident. There are no coincidences that God has not foreseen. These delusional interpretations are made possible by the way the biblical text is written. IOW, there are built in snares and traps for those who read the bible the wrong way.

Is. 8:13 Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

We tend to grossly underestimate how easy it is to be deceived into a lie or a half-truth that becomes a death dealing lie. To believe a lie comes naturally to the human mind. But worse still we tend to not pay attention to the warnings of the bible once we have swallowed the lie. The lie to us so often seems more real than the written text of the bible. But this way of ignoring the bible in favour of the lie or partial truth is to fall for a dishonest gain that we seek for ourselves, thinking there is a benefit to us for that lie we have received. The condemnation of these who receive the words of God with dishonesty is a righteous condemnation. We would be wise to consider that.

The beginning of error is to forsake the fear of the Lord. Only a lie would cause this. And can we see that Jesus is not only the cornerstone of God's building but also a stumblingstone...and not just to the Jews but to us as well? We are not better than the Jews. It is a vain pride to think that.


Isaiah 66:4
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

God has indeed chosen our delusions...in the very wordings of the bible as we shall see.

So many people do have a strong delusion because they would rather believe a lie than the truth.

 

[Helen]

They don't see that obedience to the gospel is what saves them. They think just accepting Jesus and taking His sacrifice unto themselves makes them saved. But Jesus is NOT our Lamb to sacrifice to God. He is the Lamb of God. God decides who will be saved...not us...even with all our beliefs about this.

That sounds like Jesus did what He came to do ✟...but He didn't really get it done. He did half a job..

This sounds a lot like the works of man and self-righteousness of man to me.
Or maybe it is just a lack of faith more like.

 

[Enoch111]

Or maybe it is just a lack of faith more like.

Or maybe it is just false doctrine -- the doctrine of demons.

 

[marks]

Yeah, I love raccoons. Some years the young ones get so used to me they jump up on my leg to see if I have food. That year I fed them by hand. I was even able to pet them. But haven't had any that tame since, but they might be the adults now that are bringing me their young. My mother lived in the middle of 100 acres of woods. She started feeding the raccoons and by the time she moved there were 50 raccoons waiting outside her back door at dusk. What a sight. But out of them only one was tame enough to take bread and peanut butter and jam from her hand - Blackie.

How cool is that!

I live in the middle of miles of city, but even so, they live in the drainage pipes, and we see them foraging the alleyway sometimes.

Much love!