I was an altar boy for many years up until I graduated from high school [1961] but the only Bible I saw was the one the priest read from when he gave his "sermon". At the time I did not realize that more than one Bible version even existed.
Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?
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Yes. Catholics do have different Bibles than non-Catholics. There is no denying that.
FROM THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER IN THE ORIGINAL KJB
If we should tell them that Valla, Stapulensis, Erasmus, and Vives found fault with their vulgar Translation, and consequently wished the same to be mended, or a new one to be made, they would answer peradventure, that we produced their enemies for witnesses against them; albeit, they were in no other sort enemies, than as S. Paul was to the Galatians, for telling them the truth [Gal 4:16]: and it were to be wished, that they had dared to tell it them plainlier and oftener.
But what will they say to this, that Pope Leo the Tenth allowed Erasmus' Translation of the New Testament, so much different from the vulgar, by his Apostolic Letter and Bull; that the same Leo exhorted Pagnine to translate the whole Bible, and bare whatsoever charges was necessary for the work?... If they say, it was one Pope's private opinion, and that he consulted only himself; then we are able to go further with them, and to aver, that more of their chief men of all sorts, even their own Trent champions Paiva and Vega, and their own Inquisitors, Hieronymus ab Oleastro, and their own Bishop Isidorus Clarius, and their own Cardinal Thomas a Vio Caietan, do either make new Translations themselves, or follow new ones of other men's making, or note the vulgar Interpreter for halting; none of them fear to dissent from him, nor yet to except against him. And call they this an uniform tenor of text and judgment about the text, so many of their Worthies disclaiming the now received conceit? Nay, we will yet come nearer the quick: doth not their Paris edition differ from the Lovaine, and Hentenius his from them both, and yet all of them allowed by authority?
Nay, doth not Sixtus Quintus confess, that certain Catholics (he meaneth certain of his own side) were in such an humor of translating the Scriptures into Latin, that Satan taking occasion by them, though they thought of no such matter, did strive what he could, out of so uncertain and manifold a variety of Translations, so to mingle all things, that nothing might seem to be left certain and firm in them, etc.?
Nay, further, did not the same Sixtus ordain by an inviolable decree, and that with the counsel and consent of his Cardinals, that the Latin edition of the old and new Testament, which the Council of Trent would have to be authentic, is the same without controversy which he then set forth, being diligently corrected and printed in the Printing-house of Vatican? Thus Sixtus in his Preface before his Bible. And yet Clement the Eighth his immediate successor, publisheth another edition of the Bible, containing in it infinite differences from that of Sixtus, (and many of them weighty and material) and yet this must be authentic by all means.
I'm sorry to say A, that anyone can be an altar boy and they do not learn more than any other child their age.
In the church where I attend Mass at times, they don't even know what they're supposed to do and are directed by the Deacon.
When I was a catechist, one of the least knowledgeable boy in my class was an altar boy.
I say this to say that I'm sorry about this situation.
it should be a privilege.
They should understand what is going on.
They don't even know why a small amount of water is poured into the wine.
It's all very sad.
DoveSpirit05
Active Member
This is another miss-conception, the church was built on Christ not peter, james was the 1st leader of the church in Jerusalem, read the greek.
E,
I don't know what you mean by the above.
Could you narrow it down to 25 words or less?
Really, I don't know what you're talking about.
I have catholic bibles in two languages and you can't tell me they're different.
More than one version too, in both languages.
There are an additional 7 books in the catholic bible...
that's the only difference.
DoveSpirit05
Active Member
uv made an assumption coz I was an altar boy I know the history of the CC!! as if I studied like a scholar the history of the CC when I was 9 years old.
Exactly, and what you quoted of mine would be my reply to you..,.
"Who says the authority comes from Jesus? IOW, We know that because....?"
(answer: because of Scripture)
I knew what was happening in the mass because the nuns taught us that much although it was so long ago I remember very little any more. They even taught us what our Latin response meant in English. When there a new altar boy, care was always taken to have him work with an experienced boy. Either the one with the experience or the priest would correct him as the need arose. But no one that I ever knew, besides the priest, ever read the Bible among Catholics. Certainly none of the children.
Of course in my own home no one but me even attended mass so I was the "expert"... if you could call it that. I don't know what went on in everyone else's homes but I know that among the Portugees [my step father's family and friends] no one read the Bible and few other than women attended mass regularly. Everyone of the men cussed regularly even when not angry. Most of the women did as well but usually only when they got angry. It was the almost the only time "Jesus: was included in a discussion as his name and God's were often then taken in "vain".
I didn't say the church was built on Peter.
I said Jesus gave the keys to Peter...the keys represent authority.
Peter was an authority after Jesus died. He was the go to person.
I also believe he was the first bishop of Rome....
James was the leader in Jerusalem.
I am certainly with you on this. I knew my duties as an altar boy, but about the CC I really only knew what the nuns taught us in catechism which was quite limited in scope.
Oh A....those were the good ole' days.
Those days are gone.
The Bishop down in the city (for this area) wants to do something new next year to attract the young people. I don't know what it is yet...depends on whether or not the priests I know are going to 'fess up. He's new so maybe they need to be on his good side till they know what he's about.
As to the bible, over here no one reads it..or I should say VERY FEW.
A priest in a different town that comes from Argentina is aghast that no one reads the bible here.
Sometimes he asks questions at Mass and he's not liked for this.
I was thinking I'd like to go to his church and meet up with him.
Next time.
I was speaking about the altar boys I know where I live.
I'm VERY HAPPY that you know church history and are familiar with Catholic doctrine.
It's just that altar boys nowadays are not taught anything...
You probably studied on your own...but it would depend also on your age...
@amadeus was an altar boy and he learned from the nuns.
There are not many nuns left these days and they do not take it upon themselves to do much teaching anyway.
There's an altar boy in the next town up whose father is a Deacon.
HE knows about the Mass and what everything means.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
The desire to serve at the altar should not be quenched.
They will learn, by observation and by the instruction of the deacon..
Let us not be too hard on the little ones...
That said, instruction must be offered and received, i would expect a much more reverent example from an experienced altar server
Pax!
Sounds like my kind of guy, that Argentine priest. Of course I speak Spanish so he would be an attraction to me for that reason as well. I've never been to Argentina [only one trip to Colombia in S.A., but at the height of my stamp collecting era, I had trading at least 15 trading partners in Argentina. One of them was an avid Christian [not Catholic] always wanting to engage in Bible talk in addition to stamps. Even though it nearly killed me I loved having all those trading partners. Now it all just "good memories".
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Thank you, once again confirming the authority of Scripture
If you are agreeing that scripture holds an authorative witness of the authority given to the apostles ,by Jesus, and through them to the overseers and presbyters... Well I agree !
Peace be with you!
PJ,The desire to serve at the altar should not be quenched.
They will learn, by observation and by the instruction of the deacon..
Let us not be too hard on the little ones...
That said, instruction must be offered and received, i would expect a much more reverent example from an experienced altar server
Pax!
I live in Italy.
I'm telling you what is going on here.
I'm telling you THEY ARE NOT being instructed.
It's not necessarily that they WANT to serve...
One does not learn by observation.
And I'm not hard on the little ones.
Do you see my avatar?
What do you think it means?
I won't be meeting him unless I go to his church. He's not in the circle of priests I know.
I used to have a stamp collection in NY. I left it with my son when I came here. No upside down flying planes,,,but they were beautiful and I liked them. I had a VERY BIG book chock full.
Good Memories are what we're left with.
No deacons for us. It was the nuns or nothing until along came an ex-US marine [veteran of Korea] who took over the altar boys my last few years. He made the altar boy club a really fun thing for us taking us on lots of field trips including a bus trip to Disneyland in Anaheim, CA.The desire to serve at the altar should not be quenched.
They will learn, by observation and by the instruction of the deacon..
Let us not be too hard on the little ones...
That said, instruction must be offered and received, i would expect a much more reverent example from an experienced altar server
Pax!
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