Tongues and Related Issues

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amadeus

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So tongues are parables?
When they are used by God to speak to people as Jesus spoke to people, but as I indicated in my OP there are at least two other uses for tongues. There may be more. My own gift with tongues is as special means of communication between me and God. My wife's gift of tongues and interpretation lines up with the purpose of parables.
 
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Waiting on him

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When they are used by God to speak to people as Jesus spoke to people, but as I indicated in my OP there are at least two other uses for tongues. There may be more. My own gift with tongues is as special means of communication between me and God. My wife's gift of tongues and interpretation lines up with the purpose of parables.
Then I speak in diversity of tongues
 
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amadeus

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But, I speak to people everyday, and they respond, “I have no idea what that means” even if I interpret?
When you are walking in the Spirit and open your mouth in response to someone's needs, that can be the interpretation even if it is in your native language. The correct interpretation is always from God. Jesus always spoke that way, but not everyone always understood him, because their hearts were NOT really open to it.

It is like a dyed-in-the-wool atheist reading the Bible. God inspired the writers of scripture, but the atheist reading it does not understand or misunderstands what he read even though it is in his native language. Like the Ethiopean eunuch reading from the book of Isaiah help is needed. That eunuch received help because his heart was open and sincere. The atheist with closed mind and heart cannot understand.
 

Ezra

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If you have already read my OP also read I Corinthian chapters 12, 13 and 14. Also read Acts chapter 2.
i dont post much on tongues dont know a lot about it never spoke it. so other than just a comment along the way i pretty much let it be. be honest i not sure i see the benefit in tongues. i have been in services where many was speaking at the same time . i got nothing from it .i have been in services where silence fell some one spoke then a interpreter . my question is why the need for message given in tongues then interpreter . why not just give it in plain english . yes i have read the Bible on tongues . i ask this respectfully
 
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Ezra

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When you are walking in the Spirit and open your mouth in response to someone's needs, that can be the interpretation even if it is in your native language. The correct interpretation is always from God. Jesus always spoke that way, but not everyone always understood him, because their hearts were NOT really open to it.
i agree with this
 

Waiting on him

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When you are walking in the Spirit and open your mouth in response to someone's needs, that can be the interpretation even if it is in your native language. The correct interpretation is always from God. Jesus always spoke that way, but not everyone always understood him, because their hearts were NOT really open to it.

It is like a dyed-in-the-wool atheist reading the Bible. God inspired the writers of scripture, but the atheist reading it does not understand or misunderstands what he read even though it is in his native language. Like the Ethiopean eunuch reading from the book of Isaiah help is needed. That eunuch received help because his heart was open and sincere. The atheist with closed mind and heart cannot understand.
Very agreeable.
 

amadeus

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i dont post much on tongues dont know a lot about it never spoke it. so other than just a comment along the way i pretty much let it be. be honest i not sure i see the benefit in tongues. i have been in services where many was speaking at the same time . i got nothing from it .i have been in services where silence fell some one spoke then a interpreter . my question is why the need for message given in tongues then interpreter . why not just give it in plain english . yes i have read the Bible on tongues . i ask this respectfully
Read carefully Jesus' own explanation as to why he spoke in parables which many people were unable to understand. Why did he do that?

Why did Jesus speak in parables?

"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
Matt 13:11-15
 

Enoch111

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Did Jesus speak in tongues?
Obviously not. He generally spoke Aramaic (as we can see from several Aramaic quotation in the NT). But Jesus of Nazareth was continually and totally filled with the Holy Spirit (as was John the Baptist from his mother's womb). Also we have the entire assembly of believers in Acts 4:31 who were all filled with the Holy Ghost and SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD BOLDLY. Which should tells us that speaking in tongues is NOT necessarily an evidence of being filled with the Spirit.

Pentecostalism arose in the early 20th century, and one of the tenets of this movement was that speaking in tongues was an evidence of being filled with the Spirit. Indeed they claimed that the evidence of the baptism with the Spirit (which is in fact the gift of the Holy Ghost) is speaking in tongues. Which automatically made the majority of Christians (who do not speak in tongues) second-class citizens. Yet anyone can go through the book of Acts and discover that with the exception of a couple of instances, those who were saved and baptized with the Spirit DID NOT speak in tongues. And Paul clearly stated that not all would speak in tongues.

Later on (around 1960) the Charismatic Movement (not limited to Pentecostal assemblies) took Christendom by storm. But along with their tongues-speaking they adopted many unbiblical ideas. Then the phenomenon of Charismatic Catholics came into existence around 1967. Since Roman Catholicism is rife with false doctrines, one has to wonder about this phenomenon. When it was discovered that modern tongues were not actual human languages, then the concept of *prayer language* was introduced (1987-2000). Which again rendered the majority of Christians into second-class (or maybe third-class) citizens.

Those who believe that modern tongues are genuine will never be convinced otherwise. At the same time non-tongue-speaking Christians can simply ignore this issue, since the evidence of being filled with the Spirit is in fact the fruit of the Spirit, and in any event, the Bible says that the greatest spiritual gift is Agape love. Indeed, while Paul was comparing tongues with prophecy, he stated that he would rather speak 5 words prophetically than 10,000 words in tongues.

As to the actual and original gift of tongues (Acts 2, 1 Corinthians 12-14, it meant the gift of supernaturally speaking a foreign LANGUAGE to proclaim the Gospel and to praise God (perhaps to bring forth revelations). Indeed had the Greek words glossa and glossais been simply translated as language(s), most of the modern confusion about tongues would disappear.
 

tabletalk

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And what of the sheep? Who are they? Are you one of His sheep?

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

I think I am one of His sheep.
The only voice I hear is the Scriptures I read and hear. So, the voice I hear is the Word of God, the Lord Jesus.
Not anyone else's voice, such as tongue speaking, interpretations of tongues, various 'manifestations of the spirit', etc.
His sheep are commanded to 'walk by faith, not by sight'.
 

Heart2Soul

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All of us need to be told about everything, in a sense. We learned to speak as babies by hearing the words of our parents and/or others. We heard about the things of God from God through our reading of scripture or the hearing of testimonies or hearing a preacher. When it comes to the things of God, I believe that there is an unbroken line from the time Jesus walked in the flesh until now. The unbroken line is in the connection from father to son, mother to daughter, friend to friend, word to word, carrying God's Word through men with God's Spirit from then until now. We always need to be told. Not everyone who is told pays attention. This relates not only to tongues, but to anything that God has for men. IMHO.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Rom 10:14


If you have never personally done something, then imagining it might be a bit difficult… or even impossible. If a person does receive the gift of the Holy Ghost without the gift of an unknown tongue can he feel or perceive any difference in himself? I can describe the gift of tongues based on my experience, but I know that it would be very difficult to imagine. Let me say that, for me, it compares to speaking in my native language. That is to say, I am able to speak many things without really actively thinking much about the words. For me that is English and that is the unknown tongues.

I learned both Spanish and German as foreign languages. I haven't spoken German to anyone in years and even at my best (when I was in Germany close to 50 years ago) my spoken German has never come even close to my English. To say anything in German now would require careful thought and consideration and many things I could not say because I would be unable to remember the correct words.

In Spanish I was once nearly as fluent as in English, but the lack of regular use of it has made it more difficult. Today, when I am placed in a situation with only a Spanish speaker, after a short resetting of my brain, things begin to come out of mouth more easily in Spanish. I can say almost anything in Spanish but to carry on a complex conversation, while possible, today, would be a difficult task for my abilities.

I can speak to the Lord at any time through the gift of tongues and I do not think about what I am saying. I simply refocus my attention on Him from wherever it was. It comes out as easily as English usually comes out. Actually it is easier because for some English conversations I have to think about the concepts I want to get across before proceeding and I purposely sometimes edit my words for different reasons when I do speak .


I don't believe that it is necessary for one person to teach another person an unknown tongue. I have had no experience of that kind of teaching occurring.

Once, long ago I did a study of tongues in the NT and encountered three different types of tongues(I Cor 12:10 shows there is more than one). I identified them as follows:

1st Tongue: speaker speaks in a tongue unknown to himself (and possibly as a witness to others), apparently for God's understanding alone. (I have this gift.)

2nd Tongue: speaker speaks apparently in his own language but the listeners hear him in their own foreign languages (I have heard people give witness of this gift, but have never personally witnessed it.)

3rd Tongue: speaker speaks in tongue understood by no one present & it is then interpreted by some one into the common language. (My wife has been used to give such messages from God and she has also been used to interpret such messages into English. The only human language she speaks and understands is English.)


We all are given some things from birth, which do affect us.

Most of us were born in the United States or other more "advanced" western countries. Others were born in places like Haiti or other countries that fall far short on many of the modern "comforts" of natural life we seldom even think about...

Some few were born with inherent mental abilities comparable to Albert Einstein. Others were born with below average inherent mental abilities.

Some few were born to families so rich in material things that a real absence of sufficient money to provide basics of natural life was never a serious problem. Many others were born into situations where having enough to eat, proper clothing and even a proper roof over their heads was always a problem.

Some few were born into the homes of parents who loved God, who sought diligently to bring those children into similar relationships with their Creator. Others were born without caring parents or even to parents, who were openly and cruelly abusive to those children.

So what does a loving God, who is no respecter of persons, do with all of these different people with different abilities, opportunities, and environments, etc.?

God knows our frame. He knows our abilities. He knows our inabilities. He knows our gifts. He knows our circumstances. What He looks at is our hearts: What is it that we do with what we have in accord with what we know or believe?

“…For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.” Luke 12:48

God alone is capable of properly weighing the total of what we started with, what we subsequently received, and what we have done along the road since we have started and then coming up with a conclusion based on the established blessings and curses. The result is fair according to God’s judgment. No other judgments, in the end, really matter, do they?

This is why the following verse is so important for us to both understand and observe with regard to our treatment of others:

“Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Matt 7:1-2


Look at Deuteronomy chapter 28 and rather than considering the specifics of the blessings and the curses in the verses there, consider simply that there are blessings for certain actions and curses for other actions. This explains generally how, I believe, God works, if we can all understand it.

As those specific blessings and curses were written, so is Luke 12:48 (quoted above) written to help men understand the Way of God. In a sense, I believe, that it is not God in each occurrence that specifically and personally causes a man to be judged per Matt 7:1-2 (quoted above), with regard to his right or wrong actions or inactions in accord with what the man has and/or what he understands.


The reaction of God, in a sense, is according to His plan for successes or failures or correct walks and stumblings, which includes a Redeemer, prophets, teachers, mercy, forgiveness, etc. God doesn’t have to think through things to make a decision as a man might. The decision is there according the plan already established [a blessing or a curse or some combination thereof for each action or inaction of each of us for each decision to be made] , from the foundation of the world.

If you were a native American Indian living on this continent prior to 1492 and someone handed you a $100.00 bill, it would be nothing more to you than a perhaps interesting piece of paper. You could have no conception of the value someone would put on it in the 21st century. Lack of understanding of a matter doesn’t mean that the matter is not important to someone.

The scripture says:

“…do all speak with tongues?…” I Cor 12:30

That bit of scripture to me, with the question mark after it, means that not everyone speaks in tongues, that not everyone has that gift. Its
purpose, I believe, is to communicate. But, what does it communicate and to whom? Are we likely to always know the answer to that question for another person?

Does every part of the human body speak with English words? No, only the mouth and related necessary components speak in English. The foot does not speak in English. What part of the Body of Christ are we?

I used to believe that tongues was THE evidence that a person had received the gift of the Holy Ghost. I do not believe that any more. This does not mean that I do not believe in tongues. I have the gift and I use it.

Why did Jesus speak in parables?


"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
Matt 13:11-15


The reason for the parables is also the reason for the tongues...
Preach it brother!
 
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Ezra

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Read carefully Jesus' own explanation as to why he spoke in parables which many people were unable to understand. Why did he do that?

Why did Jesus speak in parables?

"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
Matt 13:11-15
i mean no disrespect but i dont see parables being related to tongues. i asked honest questions out of respect ..i dont understand tongues .i believe in the GIFT as it is in the Bible..
 
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Ezra

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Pentecostalism arose in the early 20th century, and one of the tenets of this movement was that speaking in tongues was an evidence of being filled with the Spirit. Indeed they claimed that the evidence of the baptism with the Spirit (which is in fact the gift of the Holy Ghost) is speaking in tongues.
i am familiar with the movement .i have respect for the pentecost they do enter into worship and put many other cong to shame.. my question has nothing to do with being pentecostal
 
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Grailhunter

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So tongues are parables?


lol I am sure amadeus will do a good job of explanation this to you. But in short speaking in tongues is a message from God through a person. Not a parable. It is best to experience or witness to get a feel for it. Usually associated with, but not limited to Pentecostals. The reason I asked if it was a joke was because it would be God getting a message from himself....did not know...that you did not know. Either way stick with the thread and I am sure they will tell you more.....later
 

Heart2Soul

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I am a "faith as a child" kind of believer. If the Bible says it, then I believe, and that settles it. I never questioned. I always wondered how the teaching of the gifts and tongues got so divided in churches. Who determined in their mind that tongues was evil?
One of my studies on tongues suggests that God's Holy Language is Hebrew....
I remember my daughter telling people that I spoke Spanish because when she could hear me praying it sounded like Spanish to her. I don't know Spanish even to this day.
I pray "in the spirit" as it is also known, because sometimes my mind wanders too much if I don't. Also, I sense the presence of the Holy Spirit when I pray in tongues....and at times He is praying through me and for me because I don't know what to pray.
This doesn't make sense to anyone until they experience it.
It is a faith walk everyday. What our carnal minds do most is block us from experiencing the spiritual side of our walk. The carnal mind is enmity against God....be spiritual minded.
 

Ezra

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I am a "faith as a child" kind of believer. If the Bible says it, then I believe, and that settles it. I never questioned. I always wondered how the teaching of the gifts and tongues got so divided in churches. Who determined in their mind that tongues was evil?
One of my studies on tongues suggests that God's Holy Language is Hebrew....
I remember my daughter telling people that I spoke Spanish because when she could hear me praying it sounded like Spanish to her. I don't know Spanish even to this day.
I pray "in the spirit" as it is also known, because sometimes my mind wanders too much if I don't. Also, I sense the presence of the Holy Spirit when I pray in tongues....and at times He is praying through me and for me because I don't know what to pray.
This doesn't make sense to anyone until they experience it.
It is a faith walk everyday. What our carnal minds do most is block us from experiencing the spiritual side of our walk. The carnal mind is enmity against God....be spiritual minded.
see this subject can create a fire just like eternal security / O S A S . some things with tongues i am somewhat cautious on. the part of it being evil comes from the flesh. some people are not comfortable around tongues.. i have been in services where many was using tongues /to be honest it was nothing more than gibberish . i have been in services silence for few minutes. then the message in tongues silence then interpretation. that i can deal with when a preacher is preaching ( i am a preacher also ) they start speaking in tongues no interpretation . what profit was that to a lost person . many use it for show many believe if you never spoke in tongues your not filled with the spirit ir even saved.. as per baptism of the spirit paul wrote by one spirit we are baptized into the body of Christ.. so when we get saved we are baptized into the body. i guess i see it more as a gift not all have the gift. it is wrong to make fun of those who do speak in tongues , and it is just as much wrong to make fun insult those who do not.. that is not CHRIST LIKE
 
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Heart2Soul

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see this subject can create a fire just like eternal security / O S A S . some things with tongues i am somewhat cautious on. the part of it being evil comes from the flesh. some people are not comfortable around tongues.. i have been in services where many was using tongues /to be honest it was nothing more than gibberish . i have been in services silence for few minutes. then the message in tongues silence then interpretation. that i can deal with when a preacher is preaching ( i am a preacher also ) they start speaking in tongues no interpretation . what profit was that to a lost person . many use it for show many believe if you never spoke in tongues your not filled with the spirit ir even saved.. as per baptism of the spirit paul wrote by one spirit we are baptized into the body of Christ.. so when we get saved we are baptized into the body. i guess i see it more as a gift not all have the gift. it is wrong to make fun of those who do speak in tongues , and it is just as much wrong to make fun insult those who do not.. that is not CHRIST LIKE
I am not making fun of anyone. I simply shared my testimony and how I believe.
You are taking my post way out context and it's intent. And my post is in reply to the OP.
I pray in private....so it has nothing to do with the gift of tongues. That isn't my gift.
 
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