Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I hear you very well on this subject. There are false tongues, not of God at all. In church settings where some tongues really are of God, people misuse or abuse their gifts even as some ministers really called by God misuse their calling.see this subject can create a fire just like eternal security / O S A S . some things with tongues i am somewhat cautious on. the part of it being evil comes from the flesh. some people are not comfortable around tongues.. i have been in services where many was using tongues /to be honest it was nothing more than gibberish . i have been in services silence for few minutes. then the message in tongues silence then interpretation. that i can deal with when a preacher is preaching ( i am a preacher also ) they start speaking in tongues no interpretation . what profit was that to a lost person . many use it for show many believe if you never spoke in tongues your not filled with the spirit ir even saved.. as per baptism of the spirit paul wrote by one spirit we are baptized into the body of Christ.. so when we get saved we are baptized into the body. i guess i see it more as a gift not all have the gift. it is wrong to make fun of those who do speak in tongues , and it is just as much wrong to make fun insult those who do not.. that is not CHRIST LIKE
I’m ok that you do believe.@Waiting on him
I understand that you do not believe. I am ok with that. I fellowship with many denominations and respect their beliefs. So God be with you and carry on.
Stay strong in the Lord and never deny the truth that you have. The difficulty people have on this subject and others too often is fostered by short sighted ministers leading without knowledge or vision. And then too many people simply jump on that band wagon instead of going to God themselves. The errors lie with many people on all sides of the question, including most certainly, people who do have gifts from God but with too little knowledge or erroneous knowledge about what the gift is or should be.I am not making fun of anyone. I simply shared my testimony and how I believe.
You are taking my post way out context and it's intent. And my post is in reply to the OP.
I pray in private....so it has nothing to do with the gift of tongues. That isn't my gift.
Stay strong in the Lord and never deny the truth that you have. The difficulty people have on this subject and others too often is fostered by short sighted ministers leading without knowledge or vision. And then too many people simply jump on that band wagon instead of going to God themselves. The errors lie with many people on all sides of the question, including most certainly, people who do have gifts from God but with too little knowledge or erroneous knowledge about what the gift is or should be.
And the Church is His Body, is it not? He is after all only the Head.Anyway, I don't see the church in the Old Testament.
The church and Israel are distinct. 1 Corinthians 10.32And the Church is His Body, is it not? He is after all only the Head.
And while you see Jesus quoting the OT in the gospels, you never see him quoting the NT. What is it that you call the Word of God? Is that not Jesus? As the Word does He only run from Matt 1:1 to Rev 22:21?
Using anyone's interpretation of it? Would you receive as truth the interpretation of scripture provided by an avowed atheist? If not, why not, if the scripture by itself is all of the Truth of God we need? Where went Sola Scriptura?I think we need to be satisfied with revelation in the Bible; the sign gifts date from a time when the canon of Scripture was not yet complete.
Amen! To presume that our emotions should never be involved when we are supposed to love God because He first loved us would, I believe, present a real problem.Oh I would say that it feels like something when you are filled with the Holy Spirit...
Not only the Book of Revelation, but the entirety of the scriptures. Nearly every one of those people involved in those debates without regard to which side they are on, will use other scriptures outside of Revelation to support their case. The parable or the unknown tongue are ways that God presents His case. Who is right in each debate? God for sure!Speaking of the Revelation of Jesus Christ...the book of Revelation. Considering the number of debates going on right now on this forum on its meaning ...it may very well be in an “unknown tongue”....
God edifying others, or people edifying others?The only language of God is edification of others.
And what does that have to do with my post?The church and Israel are distinct. 1 Corinthians 10.32
And the Church is His Body, is it not? He is after all only the Head.
And while you see Jesus quoting the OT in the gospels, you never see him quoting the NT. What is it that you call the Word of God? Is that not Jesus? As the Word does He only run from Matt 1:1 to Rev 22:21?
Is there really any difference?God edifying others, or people edifying others?
I began praying to God in an unknown tongue in 1976. So you should revise your timeframe.
Of course you have not. But isn't that the logical conclusion if anyone believes that the fulness of the Spirit can only be (or is primarily) manifested through tongues? And that is indeed the Pentecostal doctrine.I have never stated nor believed that the majority of Christian were less...
This is an entirely different subject. Millions of hearts have been changed without the manifestation of tongues.If it really were all wrong as you say, why do you express such a lack of faith in God's ability to change anyone's heart?
What I posted was not to be argumentative but to simply present the view of Christians who do not speak in tongues (the majority). There would be no point in debating this matter, since both groups are convinced that they have the right understanding.Why must it be an argument between us?
No. That's not what I meant. The KJV translators were outstanding. But at that time the word "tongue" was used for language frequently. Today languages are called languages, and as you will note in other translations, that is exactly how the Greek words glossa and glossais and glosson are translated.You are saying that if we had better Bible translators, there would be no confusion?
I have not said that and you won't hear me say it. Too many people presume that others believe certain things, or don't, because of a presumed affiliation. You from your own experience should know that is NOT how people are. Some or even many will follow the leader or flesh, but not everyone.Only thing that gets me is when it is assumed one is not filled with the Holy Spirit ...unless...certainly haven’t heard you say that.
I don't disagree with any of that. I have read and studied and prayed often about that very chapter. To me it explains an awful lot about the things of God in only a few words. How many people understand God's meaning in them? One thing you will see me mentioning often is the very short verse penned by Apostle Paul:1 Corinthians 13:1-7 and the chapter prior seem to say all gifts are void and unprofitable without Love... “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.”
Colossians 3:14
[14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Everything each of us receives from God is important in our walk with God. It does not make us better in the eyes of God. The eyes of people is another thing. Because a person is serving God in any measure does not mean he never makes any mistakes, does it?Which maybe explains 1 Corinthians 14:4-5 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. [5] I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Not saying it doesn’t. But also would Definitely not assume those who do not experience the gift have missed or shunned God in some way ...or lack faith. Not that you said they do. It is a touchy subject for you, yeah? I would ask why it is so important or does it cause hard feelings?
Proverbs 21:2
[2] Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.
We could all be wrong...blessing Amadeus. Dislike these topics of obvious division.
There should not be, but in fact there often is. When we are all overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer then there will be no difference because everyone will be like Him.Is there really any difference?
Agreed!There should not be, but in fact there often is. When we are all overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer then there will be no difference because everyone will be like Him.
I have not said that and you won't hear me say it. Too many people presume that others believe certain things, or don't, because a presumed affiliation. You from your own experience should know that is NOT how people are. Some or even many will follow the leader or flesh, but not everyone.
I do NOT equate speaking with tongues with being filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not however believe a person could have a gift of tongues from God without being filled with the Holy Spirit. That is not the same thing, however, that you were saying.
I don't disagree with any of that. I have read and studied and prayed often about that very chapter. To me it explains an awful lot about the things of God in only a few words. How many people understand God's meaning in them? One thing you will see me mentioning often is the very short verse penned by Apostle Paul:
"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
When people quench the Spirit, Holy Spirit that is, in themselves they find themselves in the focal point of the negative conclusions cited in I Cor 13.
I don't disagree with that. On the contrary it agrees precisely with I Cor 13. Gifts will not matter one iota to God if a person has not charity/love as described in I Cor 13. It always comes back ultimately to what have been doing with what we have received from God. God is always a fair, righteous judge.
Everything each of us receives from God important in our walk with God. It does not make us better in the eyes of God. The eyes of people is another thing. Because a person is serving God in any measure does not mean he never makes any mistakes, does it?
That people criticize one another what for differences is the beastly nature of people, which at times may lift up its ugly head in what we thought were the best of people. We should all always be pleased when someone else receives a special blessing or gift from God. But, again, that is not the nature of the natural man. People who have been blessed by God are not exempted from wrong feelings, such as jealousy, envy and hate. When they speak those feelings or post them openly on a forum such as this, they expose themselves before God and before others with "eyes to see".
"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.: James 3:10
...ought not, but as we know they still very are!
Sometimes looking closely at the divisions is needed. Churches [assemblies] where tongue talking is discouraged or talked against is not where we are likely to hear the other side. Neither are assemblies where tongue talking is consider a prerequisite to salvation! Some people will hear both sides anywhere else but here. Should we never talk about anything that divides people?
amadeus said: ↑
I began praying to God in an unknown tongue in 1976. So you should revise your timeframe.
Enoch111 said:
Fair enough and it does not matter. The fact remains that this is a relatively recent phenomenon.
amadeus said:
I have never stated nor believed that the majority of Christian were less...
Logical perhaps to some, but does God depend upon the logic of men to accomplish all of His will? I am not arguing for Pentecostal doctrine. I know quite a bit about that. I was in Pentecostal churches for 11 years. As soon as I knew enough to do so, I was disagreeing with a lot of the official doctrine, but I would not throw out everything because I disagreed with some.Enoch111 said:
Of course you have not. But isn't that the logical conclusion if anyone believes that the fulness of the Spirit can only be (or is primarily) manifested through tongues? And that is indeed the Pentecostal doctrine.
amadeus said:
If it really were all wrong as you say, why do you express such a lack of faith in God's ability to change anyone's heart?
And many were changed with the manifestation of same. God works in many ways to accomplish His purposes. Should we throw out any that are not in favor with us or even with a majority of those calling themselves Christian?Enoch111 said:
This is an entirely different subject. Millions of hearts have been changed without the manifestation of tongues.
amadeus said:
Why must it be an argument between us?
I understand where that majority stands on this. Being in the majority also does not necessarily mean being right, does it? I would hope only to bring people together in spite of such differences. Jesus dealt with the Samaritans and gentiles and designated sinners in spite of the bad press it gave him with the Jewish leadership. If we never address the subject in mixed company how likely is anyone to soften any of their harsh views against the other side?Enoch111 said:
What I posted was not to be argumentative but to simply present the view of Christians who do not speak in tongues (the majority). There would be no point in debating this matter, since both groups are convinced that they have the right understanding.
amadeus said:
You are saying that if we had better Bible translators, there would be no confusion?
Enoch111 said:
No. That's not what I meant. The KJV translators were outstanding. But at that time the word "tongue" was used for language frequently. Today languages are called languages, and as you will note in other translations, that is exactly how the Greek words glossa and glossais and glosson are translated.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
...to another, the performing of miracles, to another, prophecy, to another, distinguishing between spirits, to another, different kinds of languages [γλωσσῶν(glōssōn)], to another, interpretation of languages [γλωσσῶν(glōssōn)]. (1 Cor 12:10)
ἄλλῳ δὲ ἐνεργήματα δυνάμεων, ἄλλῳ δὲ προφητεία, ἄλλῳ δὲ διακρίσεις πνευμάτων, ἑτέρῳ δὲ γένη γλωσσῶν, ἄλλῳ δὲ ἑρμηνεία γλωσσῶν·