Do you primarily look to the Old Testament for revelation of Christ, I’m just curious, and don’t have a bit of a problem if you do? It seemed to be good enough for the first century church.
Spiritual authority?
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I believe it’s coming into view, it’s not man or woman in the kingdom. Christ is the husband. If there’s any questions there to be asked at home. This is a mystery.
I give the books of Moses the most weight, then the Prophets, and then the other books. In the New Testament I give the most weight to the words Jesus said, especially those found in more than one Gospel. I think there are varying degrees of inspiration.
When I read some early Christian writers, I also noticed they were quoting from the Old Testament, not the New. It seemed clear to me they didn't consider the books we have now in the New Testament as authoritative. There are passages in the New Testament I don't know what to do with like these:
1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Yet in Acts, we read that Priscilla helped teach Apollos.
Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
I don't know what to make of it.
Think about Sarah and Abraham. She wanted to please Abraham and suggested he take Hagar and try to have a child with her. Sarah was too soft-hearted, too concerned with Abraham's feelings. So she erred; but later God told Abraham to listen to her and do whatever she said. That was after their names had been changed. Abraham remained a man in flesh and Sarah a woman; but spiritually they were neither male nor female. That's how I read it.
I think women, until they achieve the state of neither male nor female, can be too easily swayed by feelings. Perhaps in Christ, there is neither; but in this world, there often is. Similarly, men can be too bossy, not having enough of the feminine ability to love.
The Bible confuses you. The whole Bible is for us to learn from. That doesn't mean we are under the Law because we learn from it.
You gave up on the whole Bible, not just Paul.
Stranger
Spirtual authority is always this order.
1. God
2.Christ
3.man
4.woman
In the Church, if a woman is married, her husband still has spiritual authority over her. But both the married man and woman come under the spiritual authority of the leaders of the church they attend. The man does not surrender spiritual authority over his wife just because they go to a Church. But both come under the authority of the Church leaders. If there is conflict between the two, the husband and the leaders, then the husbands authority takes precedence concerning his wife. Which means if the conflict involves a matter of the way the Church operates, then the husband and wife need to find another church.
Stranger
ScottA
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Indeed, and more so in the church where it is only Christ who is to speak of all of His ways and that of the Father, rather than men (or women) and their ways.
We are also to raise up children in His way, not our own. We are His and He is ours. So now we have come to know stepfathers, some as men, some as God. Rather than all being sons of God, among the church are the sons of many fathers.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 also speaks on this subject.
Priscilla had a covering of her husband's authority when they taught Apollos.
I would gather from this that it is alrright for a woman to teach if she has a covering over her of a male pastor/teacher who can and will correct anything spoken by her that might be off-base.
In 1 Timothy 2:11-15, Paul does not allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man; and the reason he seems to give for this is the difference between men and women; that men are more analytical and therefore less easily deceived by the devil.
Priscilla had a covering of her husband's authority when they taught Apollos.
I would gather from this that it is alrright for a woman to teach if she has a covering over her of a male pastor/teacher who can and will correct anything spoken by her that might be off-base.
In 1 Timothy 2:11-15, Paul does not allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man; and the reason he seems to give for this is the difference between men and women; that men are more analytical and therefore less easily deceived by the devil.
I think so too.
I think that's what he meant too; but he may have been in a rush when writing. Some of my best insights have come from women I think were under proper spiritual authority.
Yes, men are less likely to be manipulated emotionally. Something may "look" good and pleasant the way the fruit did to Eve; but men are more apt to think about things. Eve was right too -- that fruit looked good and pleasant.
Its all in context of the chaos and disorder he's addressing. People speaking in an unknown language without an interpreter benefits no one. So its not the misuse of tongues, its simply; "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28).. Nothing confusing about it when you imagine a church meeting where everyone speaking at once, out of turn, in an unknown language, asking questing or engaging in conversations while someone is speaking. Paul was just telling the women not to be chatter boxes, but to discuss things with their husbands when they got home. You can't digest a sermon when everyone is gibber jabbering, everyone needs to keep silent.
Philip James
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Are you merely curious or have you arrived at a proper understanding of the role of men and women in the home and in the local church, which goes all the way back to the creation of Adam followed by the creation of Eve?
Paul relates everything in this connection with the fact that (1) Eve was created after Adam (and for Adam), and (2) because Eve allowed herself to be deceived by the Serpent, it has had a major impact on the role of men and women in both the home and the church.
Getting back to the title of your thread, God raises up, calls, and delegates spiritual authority to the elders (always men and always a plurality) within each local church, but the elders must meet His requirements in order to be true elders. (As to whether those requirements are being met in Christian churches today is another issue).
By the same token, Christian women are (1) forbidden to preach or teach within the local assembly, (2) forbidden to take spiritual authority within the local church, (3) commanded to be silent during worship (which includes speaking in tongues), and (4) commanded to cover their heads (thus their hair also) during Christian worship. While Christian men are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the Church (and gave Himself for it), wives are commanded to be in submission to their own husbands.
Paul's entire discussion about tongues in the Corinthian church is primarily corrective, since there was a tremendous amount of disorder. He even went on to say that if a stranger walked into that church and heard everyone speaking in tongues, he would rightly conclude that they were all mad.
Nevertheless the Bible says to not forbid to speak in tongues. How do you account for this?
VictoryinJesus
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Yet 1 Peter 3:7 is completely ignored: Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Paul said when He was weak...He was strong in that the power of God could rest upon Him. “The weaker vessel” is not something to be despised, but God gives His power to that which is weak(as a husband does). As also the example within the church(body). 1 Corinthians 12:22-24 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
“but God has tempered the body together, having given more abundant Honour to the part which lacked.”
Obviously Christ does this within His body. Obviously Christ has given more abundant Honour to the part which lacked as being the Head and His prayers are not hindered. In Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Met a woman once ...she had to be in her seventies. She was married to a pastor until he died. She had spent every moment of church services tending the nursery and preparing the meal for after the service. her husband as a pastor tended to every one’s needs in the congregation. Yet there she was after he had passed ...asking my husband if he could explain to her who God was.
My opinion is that Paul discerning knows if it’s Christ (the head,man,covering of the woman) speaks through a man or woman to the body, what He speaks will edify the whole ( the body).
What I’ve stated above should also be observed in the home Christ (the husband, the head, the savior of the body, the covering. Should be the spiritual authority. In whom ever he chooses to speak through,and this should profit all.
