Why do we need priests?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Surely anyone with the Holy Spirit can act as an intercessor. Jesus, surely, but so can others.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Indeed. For those with the Holy Spirit, "To live is Christ."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Giuliano
B

brakelite

Guest
The priest though was far more than just an intercessor. It is true than anyone who is possessed of the spirit of God can intercede on behalf of others. But the priests role went deeper than that. The priest was the Israelites representative before God. Generally speaking no Hebrew could do anything toward God or on behalf of God without the priest. Only a few exceptions are in scripture where the priest wasnt involved... Jehoshaphat's remarkable and faith filled prayer for victory over Jerusalem's enemies... Hezekiah when he brought before the Lord the letters written by Sennacherib's emissaries. But when it came to sin... Forgiveness... Pardon... Living in righteousness... Receiving spiritual blessings and selling spiritual guidance, the priest (or prophet) was always the means by which these things were sought. The priests in Israel occupied a high and honorable position in the nation. Their responsibilities were great, and their prerogative's equally so. They were the guardians of the law of God, and also of the morals of the people. There was scarcely any phase of life or activity in which the priest did not play a prominent part. Aaron and his sons were chosen by God to this high office, and throughout almost the entire history of the nation the priests were confined to the line of Aaronic descent. Only in the latter part of Israel's national history were others admitted to priestly office, and then only because of pressure from the civil authorities. It appears that the privileges of the priestly office were originally designed for life, but there are grounds for believing that later this provision was disregarded.
Only through the others could Israel be blessed... Only through them could the atonement be made. Now we have a permanent high priest who has taken over all the previous prerogatives of the OT priesthood by having the privilege of standing before God as our representative... Yet we also are now priests in as much as we too now have the privilege of being able to stand in the very presence of God and receive the blessings that previously were only granted through the sons of Aaron. So in answer to the question of the OP.... NO. We don't need priests... We have One. We do need pastors ... Shepherds... Like all sheep we go astray and need to be brought back to the flock and fed.. But priests in the context of Catholicism... Offering sacrifices... Incense... Forgiveness for sin... and being the only conduit between God and man.... No.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,275
3,091
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Now we have a permanent high priest who has taken over all the previous prerogatives of the OT priesthood by having the privilege of standing before God as our representative...

Indeed!

Which is why only through Him, and with Him and in Him,
Are our sacrifies of praise and thanksgiving and yes our very selves acceptable to the Father.
And thus as we celebrate this feast we fulfill Malachi 1:11 .

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are we, all of us, not called to share in and help carry one anothers burdens?
That does not mean we allow people who are too old or sick to continue in their jobs. They should step aside and lead comfortable lives among their friends. Nor does it mean we should put innocent people at further risk. If a clergyman drinks too much, we shouldn't buy him booze or give him rides to bars; and we should try to cover up things for him.
Your observation here:
Demonstrates how our behaviour can aid and even correct one who has legitimate authority over us.
Do not conflate earthly authority with spiritual.

Further consider Noah, passed out in his tent..
Which of his sons actions in response were righteous?

Peace be with you!
I do not attribute any evil to Noah for that, so I don't find the example too relevant. I tend to attribute the evil to Ham for seeing wickedness where none existed. The other two chose not to see.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you purposing that the "valley of decision" is not for the "multitudes", that Jesus does not "stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears His voice and opens the door, He will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Him?"

Because the authority that you accredit the church elders, does not supersede. That is not their authority.
I don't see the connection. :cool:

If you can explain away Matthew 18:18, Jesus giving authority to the men who were the elders of The Church, I will join you and your ilk.

Patient Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I apologize, in hindsight, the word "intercessor" was used badly. I honestly meant "mediator".

Yes, when we pray for one another (which I sure hope we do, regardless of Church affiliation) this is intercessory prayer - praying on the behalf of others... and we are obeying Jesus :)
They are the same thing.....

Definition of MEDIATOR

Definition of MEDIATOR

Dictionary Mary
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Indeed, usually they in delusion because they did not love the Truth. The truth even Jesus as He said, not the church nor even the Church... although loving the Truth will mean loving the Church, but first things first.
Hmmmm......how does one know when they are in delusion and not in delusion?
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have had many wrong ideas and may still have. I depend on the Holy Spirit to correct my wrong ideas more than to tell me new ideas. My goal is to rid myself of wrong ideas, not pile up new ones.

The Bible has corrected me. Many things have corrected me; and I believe the Holy Spirit told me I was wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It's good for my correction, my reproof. I still may not have the truth; but I've discovered some ideas I had were wrong.

I would suspect it was a spirit of vanity motivating me if I read the Bible and thought it agreed with me all the time. Something that tells me I'm right all the time probably wouldn't be from God.
Soooo when you THINK or FEEL you have the right idea they really could be wrong ideas? I wonder how long the Holy Spirit waits to correct you? I would think, out of love, the Holy Spirit would correct you pretty darn quick.

2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to a person Paul had ordained and is valid only for members of the Church hierarchy. It's pastoral epistle that was not addressed to the average layperson.

Introduction to the Pastoral Letters: 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus | Bible.org

Bible study Mary
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hmmmm......how does one know when they are in delusion and not in delusion?
A person in delusion does not know it. That is what a delusion is:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

The deluded are included in the above verse along with the ones not deluded. They/we all think they/we are right. What is necessary is to communicate with God every day at least as often as we make decisions. Through that communication we will be led toward God and away from any delusion:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

And...

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe22

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A person in delusion does not know it. That is what a delusion is:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

The deluded are included in the above verse along with the ones not deluded. They/we all think they/we are right. What is necessary is to communicate with God every day at least as often as we make decisions. Through that communication we will be led toward God and away from any delusion:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

And...

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11
Soooo you wouldn't know you are in delusion when you articulate your interpretations of Scripture?

Soooo if none of us know when we are in delusion HOW will we ever know the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are the same thing.....

Definition of MEDIATOR

Definition of MEDIATOR

Dictionary Mary

There is a fundamental difference between Jesus Christ as mediator and the intercessions of the saints. Jesus and only Jesus stands between God and man. There is no other way to God BUT through Jesus.

"And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world" 1 John.2:1,2
or there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,the man Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1Tim.2: 5,6).
The Lord Jesus Christ mediates for us as the Redeemer who sacrificed Himself and paid the price of our sins.
This mediation is attributed to Christ only, whereas the intercessions of the saints has nothing to do with atonement or redemption. It is intercessions for us to Christ Himself.
So yes, there is a huge difference, IHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and Pearl

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,342
17,177
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I apologize, in hindsight, the word "intercessor" was used badly. I honestly meant "mediator".

Yes, when we pray for one another (which I sure hope we do, regardless of Church affiliation) this is intercessory prayer - praying on the behalf of others... and we are obeying Jesus :)
Jesus prayed for his friends and he is our example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and Nancy

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Soooo you wouldn't know you are in delusion when you articulate your interpretations of Scripture?

Soooo if none of us know when we are in delusion HOW will we ever know the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary
I already answered your questions in my post with scriptures. What did you not understand?

The key to staying out of delusion is to always love the Truth even when we may not know precisely what Truth is. We may agree that it is Jesus, but do we know who and what He is?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite and Nancy

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
But the priests role went deeper than that. The priest was the Israelites representative before God.
True, But the priests under the Levitical priesthood were primarily there to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of Israel, while shedding the blood of clean animals. But that blood "covered" sins, and it was not possible for it to take away sins.

But Christ was the divine High Priest from the tribe of Judah who offered Himself to God as the ULTIMATE sacrifice. All other sacrifices were fulfilled in Him, and therefore nullified. He made an offering for sin ONCE, and then sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High. He literally took away the sin of the world, by taking all sins upon Himself, and paying the penalty for sins in full. And that is called the finished work of redemption, since He cried "IT IS FINISHED".

However, what the Catholic and Orthodox churches did was to try and revive a human priesthood by following the pattern in the OT. But that was UNAUTHORIZED by God,and was a purely human effort to violate the terms and conditions of the New Covenant, as well as the fact that every genuine believer is within a Royal Priesthood. God -- purely by His grace --- has made His children kings and priests (Rev 1:6).

But the Roman Catholic Church took it one step further. They actually commissioned their priests to literally RE-SACRIFICE Christ daily on an altar for a bloodless Mass. And that is an abomination, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:...

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is a fundamental difference between Jesus Christ as mediator and the intercessions of the saints. Jesus and only Jesus stands between God and man. There is no other way to God BUT through Jesus.

"And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world" 1 John.2:1,2
or there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1Tim.2: 5,6).
The Lord Jesus Christ mediates for us as the Redeemer who sacrificed Himself and paid the price of our sins.
This mediation is attributed to Christ only, whereas the intercessions of the saints has nothing to do with atonement or redemption. It is intercessions for us to Christ Himself.
So yes, there is a huge difference, IHO.
Thank you.

Jesus prays for us and with us. Saints pray for us and with us.

“Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20–21). As Scripture says: “the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

We are “God’s fellow-workers” (1 Cor. 3:9) in his plan of salvation.

Bible study Mary
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
True, But the priests under the Levitical priesthood were primarily there to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of Israel, while shedding the blood of clean animals. But that blood "covered" sins, and it was not possible for it to take away sins.

But Christ was the divine High Priest from the tribe of Judah who offered Himself to God as the ULTIMATE sacrifice. All other sacrifices were fulfilled in Him, and therefore nullified. He made an offering for sin ONCE, and then sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High. He literally took away the sin of the world, by taking all sins upon Himself, and paying the penalty for sins in full. And that is called the finished work of redemption, since He cried "IT IS FINISHED".

However, what the Catholic and Orthodox churches did was to try and revive a human priesthood by following the pattern in the OT. But that was UNAUTHORIZED by God,and was a purely human effort to violate the terms and conditions of the New Covenant, as well as the fact that every genuine believer is within a Royal Priesthood. God -- purely by His grace --- has made His children kings and priests (Rev 1:6).

But the Roman Catholic Church took it one step further. They actually commissioned their priests to literally RE-SACRIFICE Christ daily on an altar for a bloodless Mass. And that is an abomination, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:...

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.
I'm not sure why this has to be an "either/or" situation. Why can a person not have their own relationship with deity AND have a person to help guide them in that relationship?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you.

Jesus prays for us and with us. Saints pray for us and with us.

“Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!” (Ps. 103:20–21). As Scripture says: “the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8). The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

We are “God’s fellow-workers” (1 Cor. 3:9) in his plan of salvation.

Bible study Mary

The bible is pretty clear that ALL Christians are "saints" , Acts 26:10 Romans 1:7;
1 Corinthians 1:2 We are considered "holy" or set aside. "Saints" are not dead people who are to be prayed to, for or with...it is not in the written Word Of God. We saints on Earth (Christians) can certainly pray or intercede for one another, Jesus intercedes for us always as He IS the ONLY way to The Father. Can you show me where in the Word it tells us to ask dead people for prayer??
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.