Christian Denomination Differences

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So here you suggest what you believe to be 3 essential criteria/qualifications/conditions to salvation, and yet you leave out the very first that Jesus Himself said was an absolute and without which the above 3 are impossible...ye must be born again.

Isn't "ye must be born again" part of #1 though, inherently? Same with not denying the Son: 1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." - I'd also wrap this up in #1.

Sorry I wasn't extremely clear on this. I guess I thought that it was inherent that one has to believe for salvation: 1)Jesus existed on earth about 2000 years ago 2)Jesus is God-the-Son 3)we are born-again in Him when we believe, later in John 3:16-17 "16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Sorry for any confusion or lack of clarity.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, you won hands down. :D
trophy.png

lol. I'm still cross-eyed; wasn't worth it. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I've never thought of it another way. Although I suppose how you think of it is sort of implied, really, isn't it? If...then...? But, regardless of when that 'vision' of a great multitude in heaven was seen, it had to be true, it still must be true and it always will be true. God always had a way of bringing many to him, even 'gentiles' before Christ.

I guess I never figured it needed to apply to those already within Christianity until the denomination differences occurred to me. Does this make it sad that it does with the current infighting of denominations? Would Jesus be sad about the infighting? At least there's hope in our Great Teacher to course correct, forgive, and then be joyful in Him in His Kingdom.

On a small side-note, I'm not sure what you do for work, and I'm not asking you to disclose that, but it sounds to me like you would be a great computer programmer with how you think.

After Christ we have had 2000 years of people from pretty much every tribe, tongue and nation claiming him. We must remember that the gospel is cyclical. It started in the Middle East, sweeping across Asia and Africa and then Europe before travelling to the Americas. And as it travelled to the Americas it lost its grip in what was once called the craddle of civilization, where Christianity was pushed out by Islam. Islam then followed more or less the same path Christianity did, down into Africa, encroaching into the Asian regions and now pushing at the boarders of Europe. But, in the nature of God, Christianity is now being re-birthed where Christ first walked! the Middle East is coming alive again! Africa and Asia is experiencing massive revivals!
My point being, just because there are remote places in the world where the gospel doesn't seem to have reached today, doesn't mean it didn't go there at some point in the past. Doesn't mean it won't again in the future. God is intent when he says he will claim people from all tribes and nations of the earth. I think he has already done it, and I think he will continue to do so. Heaven will be multi-hued in a reflection of his glory and image.

Agreed. "Proclaim the gospel" has found its way around the world, so to speak. We're all creations of His, I love his variations - would be boring if there was less variation, in my view.

Eh. I think people get too worked up about denominations and brands and stuff like that. Just make sure the place you're getting your teaching in is preaching the word, the whole counsel of it, and not doing any funky stuff...and you're good.

Hehe, yeah, look at this very thread. It was a good attempt I guess...so much for a "lightning rod" though, more like a backfire lol.

I mean...I like my theology...and I like it good. But when it comes down to it, if your church is sticking to the essentials and loving God and others like Jesus would, I think we need to give some leeway and grace on other things.

Agreed. Focus on Jesus and only Jesus is the way to go, for me at least.

Snort! If only you knew! In 'real life' I'm mostly too strung up by anxiety to have a conversation with anyone about the weather, let alone heavier matters. Maybe I don't feel like a moron here everytime I open my mouth because I don't...open my mouth, that is. Typing lets you...weigh your words a little...before you pour them forth.

Ah, my twin. I knew I'd find you one day lol. My conversations in public are limited to "may I please have $20 on pump #4. Thank you, have a good day", and I'm so thankful when I get a "you too" back - so much worse sometimes.

This is another reason why you'd be a good computer programmer. There's a program, called a compiler, that translates human-written instruction into computer-instruction (into 1s and 0s), but before it does that it also proofreads and spellchecks for you, so your thoughts are double-checked, even when "talking" with a computer. It doesn't prevent logical errors, just linguistic errors in human outputted instructions to the computer. It's a good filter for someone like me; wish I could talk via a computer offline too, that would help me out a ton!

I'm so nervous in daily life, like you said; weighed down with conscious though on what I'm saying, is it coming out right, etc., then add in body language and facial movement with who I'm speaking with and then I'm almost just shut up with too much sensory input to output anything at all :)

Maybe...that might work. Except...no one is really addressing it. Our Church is this really strange old-time conservative type Church. Most related to each other. Which sounds weird, but mostly its nice and the fellowship, while staid, is comfortable. But now we're sort of blinking at each other in bafflement and not really talking about the elephant in the room. And if it is talked about, it's done in swift, vague sentences, because everyone is scared to be seen to be gossips. Or making it worse. And I roll my eyes a little, because something like this not directly addressed can be rot that sets into a foundation. I think. Or creates a brittleness, just waiting for the next little thing to make it splinter into a thousand pieces. But, I had nothing to do with the issue, so me trying to nudge anything to happen would be sticking my nose in and I'm not a deacon. I can only pray at this point. :(

I hear ya. Gotta weight if it's worth the effort also.

Man...I wonder how many of them read the NT just because they get told they can't? I'd probably be in that crowd. You'd have to think they wonder about this 'new covenant' that was promised, just as much as the Messiah!

A very small amount, they're called Messianic Jews, lol.

I think Romans 11 suggests many Jews might, towards the end, come, in large numbers, to Christ. I pray that is true...what a revival that would be! What a witness to the world!

I hope so, but that's a relative number, as their absolute numbers are still dismally small. What are there, around 6-10 million worldwide, or is that just Israel?

I just hope arrogance doesn't set it with the false messiah to come, and the "I won't be wrong" attitude is not pervasive so as to keep them from admitting they're wrong. Hopes and prayers, hopes and prayers...

Thans for the conversation, twinny ;)
 
Last edited:

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My thoughts are along the lines that Jesus is the Way - not churches, denominations, or our understanding. Christians should be about the work of the Kingdon rather than judging servants of Another.

I think denominations are necessary because of the human fallacy. We are finite beings trying to understand an infinite God. This can only be done to the extent God has revealed Himself to us and this fullest revelation is in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ. So we separate in order to understand as best we can. But we should still be united in Christ.

I don't limit the denominations to just human errors though; I think evil angels did a good job in leading astray by infiltration and twisting of meanings of words and scriptures, and twisting of intent to a larger degree.

I agree with everything else though. Well said.
 

John Caldwell

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2019
1,704
973
113
North Augusta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't limit the denominations to just human errors though; I think evil angels did a good job in leading astray by infiltration and twisting of meanings of words and scriptures, and twisting of intent to a larger degree.

I agree with everything else though. Well said.
I did not think about this but I agree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4Jesus

Naomi25

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
3,199
1,801
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I guess I never figured it needed to apply to those already within Christianity until the denomination differences occurred to me. Does this make it sad that it does with the current infighting of denominations? Would Jesus be sad about the infighting? At least there's hope in our Great Teacher to course correct, forgive, and then be joyful in Him in His Kingdom.
Hhmmm, I had not quite considered it like that either. I guess...yes, I think Jesus would be sad at the fighting; we should always try and disagree with a degree of fellowship, don't you think? But...as for the denominational differences themselves? I don't know...would it make him sad that Christians strove to be faithful to his word? Granted, not all can be right...but we are all trying. That's mostly the point of denominations, isn't it? And I think that if we truly go forward with a heart to grow in understanding and learning of his truths, he will lead us towards it in his own way.
I often wonder if this is one reason why we see so many 'old' denoms fading towards liberalism, things like welcoming gay clergy to the pulpit. The refuse to bend to the word, to remain open to what God might show them and lead them, and so they end up not growing in spiritual maturity and wisdom...instead giving in to the culture of the world. I think today's culture only seems wise and 'moral' when we refuse to loose ourselves in a renewing and a faithfulness of the scripture.

On a small side-note, I'm not sure what you do for work, and I'm not asking you to disclose that, but it sounds to me like you would be a great computer programmer with how you think.
:D Actually, I'm a homeschooling mum. But...if you sense tech-nerd, it's probably the ASD coming through. I tend to either ramble (when I'm tired), or get technical. Sometimes an odd blend of the two. Sometimes I'm amazed people understand a thing I write!

Agreed. "Proclaim the gospel" has found its way around the world, so to speak. We're all creations of His, I love his variations - would be boring if there was less variation, in my view.
I sort of look forward to that wonderful mutlicultual heaven. I live in a pretty isolated rural community and we don't get much variation here! You hear such interesting stories of cultures and experiences from people online and realise just how enriching it can be to live with and learn from some of these people. Ah well...we are where we are, I suppose.

Hehe, yeah, look at this very thread. It was a good attempt I guess...so much for a "lightning rod" though, more like a backfire lol.
Welcome to the forum! Where everyone can (and does) disagree with someone else! At length. I suppose that's why we come here, for 'discussion', but I confess I agree...sometimes it would be nice to just have a thread where we're all on board! I wonder...can we think up a topic that can't possibly raise anyones objections? How about a "I love Jesus" thread?? Or, "God is the best". Or, "Satan sucks...countdown to the showdown!" Probably still get someone saying something! What do you reckon?

Agreed. Focus on Jesus and only Jesus is the way to go, for me at least.
Yup. Besides, disagreeing on certain issues isn't a bad thing. I like me a good debate on certain issues. I just wish people won't get so worked up about it! Although, that may come back to the ASD thing; I like to lay down facts as I see them and leave emotions at the door. Well...except for sarcasm. Sarcasm is an essential conversational tool, you know, for when people begin to take themselves far too seriously...which they inevitably do.
Nope, facts, sarcasm and lots and lots of Jesus. And I'm happy as a pig in mud.

Ah, my twin. I knew I'd find you one day lol. My conversations in public are limited to "may I please have $20 on pump #4. Thank you, have a good day", and I'm so thankful when I get a "you too" back - so much worse sometimes.

This is why I mentioned you'd be a good computer programmer. There's a program, called a compiler, that translates human-written instruction into computer-instruction (into 1s and 0s), but before it does that it also proofreads and spellchecks for you, so your thoughts are double-checked, even when "talking" with a computer.

I'm so nervous in daily life, like you said; weighed down with conscious though on what I'm saying, is it coming out right, etc., then add in body language and facial movement with who I'm speaking with and then I'm almost just shut up with too much sensory input to output anything at all :)

Huh. You ARE my twin. In fact, you just described my whole family. Life gets fun attempting to push a whole family of anxious autistics out the door. Too many people? Too much sound? Not organized? Too organized? Usually by the time we get home I'm a wreck. Thankfully its a bit better now they're older, but yish....home is nice. Home is quiet and controlled and peaceful.

I hear ya. Gotta weight if it's worth the effort also.
At this point, probably not.

A very small amount, they're called Messianic Jews, lol.

I hope so, but that's a relative number, as their absolute numbers are still dismally small. What are there, around 6-10 million worldwide, or is that just Israel?

I just hope arrogance doesn't set it with the false messiah to come, and the "I won't be wrong" attitude is not pervasive so as to keep them from admitting they're wrong. Hopes and prayers, hopes and prayers...

Thans for the conversation, twinny ;)
Yep, I suppose all we can do is pray for them and watch 'em. The current election debarcle they have going over there is interesting as well.
Anyway, yes, thanks for the chat! Its always nice to find a similar soul you can bump thoughts around with!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and 4Jesus

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hhmmm, I had not quite considered it like that either. I guess...yes, I think Jesus would be sad at the fighting; we should always try and disagree
with a degree of fellowship, don't you think?

Sad insomuch as the ugliness that comes out of it; the brothers and sisters spitting venom, so to speak, at one another.

But...as for the denominational differences themselves? I don't know...would it make him sad that Christians strove to be faithful to his word? Granted, not all can be right...but we are all trying.

Yeah, the spirit is there, we are focused on Jesus, but it disintegrates slightly with the execution, I think. Almost back to law-abiding instead of spirit of Jesus.

I'm guilty myself, no doubt, of looking at some, in my belief, non-scriptural views/actions of denoms. That being said, I think, for me at least, it's a larger purpose in fighting the enemies' tactics in infiltration of the church as a whole and leading astray or trying to, especially with twisting of words and meanings and intents (and scripture itself), so there's that aspect to it. Not in the condemnation sense, but in the war we are in, unfortunately.

To bring it back around though, I think if we keep our focus on Jesus, those can be worked out, because they are, in my view, attacks from outside by the enemy. Like I was saying with the church matter you were discussing, one possible way is to break it down to the basics, find the dilemma after that, disect where the problem areas are, refocus on the basics, then reuild from there to the current dilemma. This focuses on Jesus, while resolving the current issues at hand. That's my thinking at least, and kinda my intention with this thread. But it didn't work as expected, so what do I know, lol.

That's mostly the point of denominations, isn't it? And I think that if we truly go forward with a heart to grow in understanding and learning of his truths, he will lead us towards it in his own way.
I often wonder if this is one reason why we see so many 'old' denoms fading towards liberalism, things like welcoming gay clergy to the pulpit. The refuse to bend to the word, to remain open to what God might show them and lead them, and so they end up not growing in spiritual maturity and wisdom...instead giving in to the culture of the world. I think today's culture only seems wise and 'moral' when we refuse to loose ourselves in a renewing and a faithfulness of the scripture.

Agreed. The attacks by the enemy are legit though, and are working as they intended. Only Jesus can fix this! Not only our Messiah, but our King, righteous and just, back in action to save us again!

:D Actually, I'm a homeschooling mum. But...if you sense tech-nerd, it's probably the ASD coming through. I tend to either ramble (when I'm tired), or get technical. Sometimes an odd blend of the two. Sometimes I'm amazed people understand a thing I write!

Blessed children you have there.

You're loud and clear, no amazement necessary. You're not egotistical, so you can't see it, which is good because it means you're humble, but you're speaking volumes to me.

Check out computer programming, for you and to teach your children. Might be fun for you, and for you to teach them.

I sort of look forward to that wonderful mutlicultual heaven. I live in a pretty isolated rural community and we don't get much variation here! You hear such interesting stories of cultures and experiences from people online and realise just how enriching it can be to live with and learn from some of these people. Ah well...we are where we are, I suppose.

Yeah, we're Eternal thanks to God-the-Father and God-the-Son; so many more experiences to have, places,people to meet. Plus, but more importantly, Heaven and God-the-Father and God-the-Son in perSon!

Welcome to the forum! Where everyone can (and does) disagree with someone else! At length. I suppose that's why we come here, for 'discussion', but I confess I agree...sometimes it would be nice to just have a thread where we're all on board! I wonder...can we think up a topic that can't possibly raise anyones objections? How about a "I love Jesus" thread?? Or, "God is the best". Or, "Satan sucks...countdown to the showdown!" Probably still get someone saying something! What do you reckon?

lol, thanks for the welcome! Yeah I come here for the fellowship with likeminded Christians, for discussions for Christians with different views, and to converse and debate. Keeps me open to things I've missed, and that don't get covered in church services.

Yeah it would be nice. Hey I made my attempt with this thread, it's your turn now :D. If you won't, I will, but it's your idea so it's on you. It'd be a fun social experiment in the least.

There was a thread titled "Satan is a Punk" a week or two ago, but there was a disagreement in that one, of which I'm partly to blame, so, again, your turn ;)

Yup. Besides, disagreeing on certain issues isn't a bad thing. I like me a good debate on certain issues. I just wish people won't get so worked up about it! Although, that may come back to the ASD thing; I like to lay down facts as I see them and leave emotions at the door. Well...except for sarcasm. Sarcasm is an essential conversational tool, you know, for when people begin to take themselves far too seriously...which they inevitably do.
Nope, facts, sarcasm and lots and lots of Jesus. And I'm happy as a pig in mud.

I agree; I've always held onto the view that new information, after thinking about it objectively, will either strengthen my current conviction, or will be enough to overturn my conviction, and I'll be better off with either outcome. So it's good to challenge beliefs, in my view. Debates do this for me.

Sarcasm is good, and it is essential, but can be bad though too when it's used to attack, and not as a way to alter the perception of the statement made via humor.

I wish I could think of something sarcastic right now to say in response to your view of sarcasm but I'm drawing blanks right now - too much pressure to say something good, ugh, there's goes the anxiety again, off to the races... :)

Huh. You ARE my twin. In fact, you just described my whole family. Life gets fun attempting to push a whole family of anxious autistics out the door. Too many people? Too much sound? Not organized? Too organized? Usually by the time we get home I'm a wreck. Thankfully its a bit better now they're older, but yish....home is nice. Home is quiet and controlled and peaceful.

lol, that's why I couldn't find ya twinny, you're halfway around the world! Makes sense now ;)

lol, I love your family already. That would be so awesome, so much non-ego running around each other, basic respect for one another. So many jokes to be had while it's going on. You've got a dream life there, from my view.

Gotta love the non-peaceful though, in your family's way of course. Keeps the energy flowing, must make you feel alive and celebrate life as is. Wow, I'm blown away that life could be like that. You're blessed.

At this point, probably not.

Like this thread, lol.

Yep, I suppose all we can do is pray for them and watch 'em. The current election debarcle they have going over there is interesting as well.

Oof, yeah, that's a mess. Seems like war is on the ready soon, possibly some OT prophecies coming to realization.

Anyway, yes, thanks for the chat! Its always nice to find a similar soul you can bump thoughts around with!

Thanks also. Hope you have fun with the family, sounds like a blast.
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,275
3,091
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I think today's culture only seems wise and 'moral' when we refuse to loose ourselves in a renewing and a faithfulness of the scripture.

JohnPaul the great callled todays 'culture' a culture of death. And i agree with him.
But we cannot despair! Continue to shine the love of our awesome God! And hold your head up, for our redemption draws near!

May He bless you and keep you through all trials and tribulations!

Peace be with you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: epostle

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I totally agree, none of us are perfect. But we are called to defend the faith and expose false teachers/doctrine and to do that, we need to know it. We're told to study to show ourselves approved....to rightly divide the word.
Even on the understanding of that verse [II Tim 2:15] some, [including me] disagree with the common understanding of so many believers.
There are denominations who believe in a works-based salvation; not scriptural, or baptism saves; not scriptural. Some don't believe Jesus is God or deny the Trinity; so not scriptural.
What you are saying is those specified things are essential for everyone: works, baptism and trinity. I am not with you on two of those, but I would not presume to exclude you from salvation for our differences. I know that I am not the ultimate judge.

Denominational differences that aren't salvific don't matter; does your church have elders or just deacons, do you sprinkle or immerse....those things don't matter re: salvation. It's the core issues that separate believers from nonbelievers.
Why are you so certain about the things you believe to be essential to salvation... rather than allowing that God who knows everything about every heart will include some and exclude some in spite of no understanding or misunderstanding of what you consider essential?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well I learned something today. :)

I didn't know that was the definition. But I checked, and lo you are right.
I thought I was just nondenominational ...a follower of Christ .
I did not know that by default I was protestant . lol
Different people do have different definitions [dictionary definitions are not so absolute unless you have one that covers every possibility] for their own reasons, but in order to communicate, we should either use the same definitions or be certain that each participant understand the other person's definitions. How well would a Russian who speaks only Russian communicate with a Japanese who only speaks Japanese?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marymog

illini1959

Active Member
May 21, 2019
134
81
28
64
Central IL
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Even on the understanding of that verse [II Tim 2:15] some, [including me] disagree with the common understanding of so many believers.

What you are saying is those specified things are essential for everyone: works, baptism and trinity. I am not with you on two of those, but I would not presume to exclude you from salvation for our differences. I know that I am not the ultimate judge.


Why are you so certain about the things you believe to be essential to salvation... rather than allowing that God who knows everything about every heart will include some and exclude some in spite of no understanding or misunderstanding of what you consider essential?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

What is the requirement for eternal life?

There is One essential. Jesus.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

What is the requirement for eternal life?

There is One essential. Jesus.
Yes, loving Jesus, the Truth, is that essential thing. How well are we able to love without knowing or understanding? How much does a natural baby love his mother before he is able to mouth or understand the words, 'I love you?
 

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well I learned something today. :)

I didn't know that was the definition. But I checked, and lo you are right.
I thought I was just nondenominational ...a follower of Christ .
I did not know that by default I was protestant . lol
Only by man's definitition! I will not let the world define what I am in Christ. Labels, labels, and more labels.....for what purpose? to distinguish how you interpret scripture and apply it in your life. IMHO...lol. I want to just follow the teachings of Jesus, as the disciples did. How did Paul introduce himself when writing to the churches?....he called himself a servant of Christ, a disciple, an apostle, a teacher, a preacher, and a prophet.....no denomination other than the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Mary,
How can one repent of the unforgivable sin?
Thank you Nancy.

Putting the conversation IN CONTEXT @illini1959 said "There is one thing only that will send a person to Hell. Not receiving Christ."

According to Scripture that is a false statement by illini. There is another thing that will send a person to hell: blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.

That is why I asked the question "Will a person go to hell if they blaspheme against the Holy Ghost and refuse to repent?"

Sooooo you should not be asking me that question, you should be asking our misguided friend Illini1959.....:rolleyes:

But I get the gist of your point and agree with it. If it is unforgivable, you can't repent. God's mercy has limits!

Respectfully, Mary

How do you "like" that @4Jesus ?
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We were trying to get her to admit something along those lines. I think she doesn't understand what that is.
Silly....I asked a question....It wasn't a statement....Peace
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Youre clearly saying you haven't found it yet, until illini. And she doesn't attend the rcc.

Why is your search over if your church currently had what you just found? Clearly it doesn't. And on that i'd agree. There are numerous false, manmade contradictory doctrines and dogmas in the rcc. Keep searching mary. Knock and it will be opened.
Soooo YOU decide what are "false" doctrines and dogmas?

Please enlighten us.