I wonder where this might lead...

[Prayer Warrior]

Makes some sense to me since Jesus compared himself to the serpent on the pole.

This makes sense to you?

"The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil."
​

So, you don't see the serpent as the symbol of the devil?

What this is saying is that the serpent "redeems the world...." How? Through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ? No! "...by giving creation the knowledge of itself...."

Do you not have a problem with this statement?
.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I don't know about the first two parts; but the serpent devouring its own tail is right. You can see that as a sign in the sky where "Draconis" is a constellation that circles the North Star. It is a serpent with its tail in its mouth. See? The serpent is supposed to be "up" not "down." In a person, the serpent is supposed to be raised and circle the head -- the crown of life. The resurrection depends on this defeat of the wrong type of serpent and restoring the proper serpent nature.

So, we're back to this:

The devil, which the Bible calls the deceiver, knows this so he offers people a counterfeit. Satan has his snares for those seeking such experiences. One of which is called kundalini awakening (also called kundalini activation or kundalini arousal), which is basically the event where the kundalini “takes over” a person, or when it rises from the base of the spine to the top of his head.

My contention is that kundalini is nothing more than a demon or an evil spirit and that it is extremely dangerous to have a kundalini awakening. This so-called awakening is a deception for people to allow themselves to be demonized since a lot of times demons can’t just enter inside of a person but needs an open “door” to go through. These doors are easily opened by New Age and occult practices. The promises of the benefits of kundalini are bait for the enemy to snare a victim through demonization as satan’s demons have a desire to inhabit a human body (read Mark 5:1-13; Matt. 12:43-45). This is the antithesis of one filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18) in which born again Christians have when they repent and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ.​

Source:Kundalini Awakening/Arousal/Activation or Really Demonic Possession?

 

[Giuliano]

KJ21
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst weaken the nations!
ASV
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
AMP
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning [light-bringer], son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, You who have weakened the nations [king of Babylon]!
AMPC
How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]​

Oh, my, DayStar Television!

I'm sure that these names applied to Satan before he rebelled against God and was cast down to earth. What do you think about it?
.

I do not know. It looks right.

I do not think however that Satan was cast down to the earth. That comes later. He was surely cast down out of the third heaven of Fire for the most part -- so he's now in the second heaven of Air. He will then be cast down into the lowest heaven of water; and then to the earth. There are times when he's allowed back in the third heaven, but God controls that. If a saint is ready to be justified in a matter of importance, he appears in the Third Heaven and Satan is allowed to rise too. The "spiritual evil" in the saint is shown to him so he can repent. It is removed then, and that concealed "satanic" aspect in the saint is cast down, disposed of forever. The exterior Satan who accuse the saint is also cast down again to the second heaven. Satan got to do his job as the accuser, but God justified the saint. Do not think that all the evil in "high places" is "Satan's" fault. Some of it is ours too. Part of the battle in "high places" is with ourselves. As long as we have spiritual sins, we are creating a foothold for Satan in the third heaven. Every saint who allows God to rule those areas is taking away part of Satan's space.

When you read that the things in Revelation are to take place "shortly" -- and the reader is told to "keep the things" in the book -- be confident that the reader should not be surprised if he sees Satan fall. That book has more than one reading. It can apply to the individual saint and then to the whole world too.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

If we err, Satan's job was supposed to be there to jab at us to let us know we're off track by "goading" us. The demonic person known as Satan took his job too seriously, not recognizing that Mercy is there for those who sin. Many times Satan is correct when he accuses people -- that is his idea of justice. It is a form of justice, to be sure.

I don't know anywhere in the Bible that says that it was ever Satan's job to "goad" us back on track when we get off. In fact, he's the one who tempts us to sin! And then he accuses us before our Father.

Rev. 12: 10--And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The demonic justice demands death for sin, failing to see the Wisdom of God for having Mercy. Justice without mercy is not God's Justice; and mercy or lovingkindness without justice is not God's Love. Mercy and Justice must be balanced and taken together.

I think that you're confused here. It is God's justice that demands death. And He died for us in order to satisfy His need for justice.

Romans 6:23--For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I do not think however that Satan was cast down to the earth. That comes later. He was surely cast down out of the third heaven of Fire for the most part -- so he's now in the second heaven of Air

This scripture clearly shows that Satan was cast down to earth.

Rev. 12:9-- And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

He was cast down to earth and became the "god of this world."

Satan has access to the throne room of God where he accuses believers.... (Rev. 12:10)

 

[Giuliano]

So, we're back to this:

The devil, which the Bible calls the deceiver, knows this so he offers people a counterfeit. Satan has his snares for those seeking such experiences. One of which is called kundalini awakening (also called kundalini activation or kundalini arousal), which is basically the event where the kundalini “takes over” a person, or when it rises from the base of the spine to the top of his head.

You got it. The non-Christians know about it. Why don't Christians? The serpent must be "lifted up." However I have a word of caution -- to the impure, all things are impure. Someone practing yoga or meditation to raise kundalini can put himself in grave danger. It doesn't work. The heart chakra must be pure first. If it isn't, the person is risking extreme danger -- spiritual madness being one. Seek first the kingdom is the only sound advice -- and trust that "all these things" will be added. Not too many people go completely insane by those practices, but some do and get carted off to mental institutions. What can I say? God is not mocked.

It is also a danger if the "inner eye" chakra (called the single eye by Jesus) is in darkness. The person can be dong black magic without knowing it. The things in his evil imagination of that impure chakra can do some damage, that's for sure. Better then to let the serpent energy lie dormant until the upper ones are purified.

Miracles are performed using that serpent energy; and again I warn about people wanting to perform miracles. If they raise the kundalini having impure chakras above, it usually leads to self-delusion and destruction. The person who's raised it even a little also can create a "field of charm" around himself. Call it "charisma" if you like. I managed to turn it off when it happened to me. Too many people found me attractive and wanted to be around -- for the wrong reasons. I turned that "charm" off. But! When some people find they have it, they get enticed by sex. Other people will want to have sex with them. Ha, does that explain why we see so many "charming" ministers falling through sexual immorality? Yes, I'd say the Holy Spirit started raising that kundalini for them in some of them so they could do good -- but they were tempted and used it for evil. Others may have thought they were praying to God and wanted the ability to perform miracles out with impure motives. It's hard to who did what.

What I find amusing is that after some of them abuse the kundalini and waste it in sexual activity, then wonder why they lost the ablility to perform miracles. Ha, they gave the bread to the dogs! Then they may start to find ways to fake miracles.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You got it. The non-Christians know about it. Why don't Christians? The serpent must be "lifted up." However I have a word of caution -- to the impure, all things are impure. Someone practing yoga or meditation to raise kundalini can put himself in grave danger. It doesn't work. The heart chakra must be pure first. If it isn't, the person is risking extreme danger -- spiritual madness being one. Seek first the kingdom is the only sound advice -- and trust that "all these things" will be added. Not too many people go completely insane by those practices, but some do and get carted off to mental institutions. What can I say? God is not mocked.

No, I don't got it! This is not of God in the least. Most Christians don't know about this because God doesn't instruct us to do this!

There's grave danger because it's evil! I have NEVER risked becoming insane from doing anything the Bible tells me to do.

We are to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness! This in no way means to use practices that false religions promote. These practices are not righteous.
.

 

[Giuliano]

This scripture clearly shows that Satan was cast down to earth.

Rev. 12:9-- And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

He was cast down to earth and became the "god of this world."

Satan has access to the throne room of God where he accuses believers.... (Rev. 12:10)

Revelation 12:9 follows the Seventh Trump. Start at 1:1.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Do not be enticed by the idea that Revelation 12:9 was in the past when John wrote that book. Things can be confusing enough as it is.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Miracles are performed using that serpent energy;

This is absolutely false!

Miracles come from God's power unless they are false signs and wonders. This is what you're talking about--the false!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Revelation 12:9 follows the Seventh Trump. Start at 1:1.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Do not be enticed by the idea that Revelation 12:9 was in the past when John wrote that book. Things can be confusing enough as it is.

Look at the verb tense. It says that Satan "WAS cast down to the earth, and his angels WERE cast down with him."

 

[Giuliano]

No, I don't got it! This is not of God in the least. Most Christians don't know about this because God doesn't instruct us to do this!

There's grave danger because it's evil! I have NEVER risked becoming insane from doing anything the Bible tells me to do.

We are to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness! This in no way means to use practices that false religions promote. These practices are not righteous.
.

You may be left then without an explanation about the serpent on the pole being lifted up. Why make an image of "Satan" if he was the serpent? How could that heal anyone? Was Moses also a Satanist? There is a tendency among Christians to condemn and to be afraid of things they don't understand -- "speaking evil of what they know not." We may risk a form of mental instability by condemning things and dignities we don't yet understand.

We may be risking becoming "satanic" or "unstable" ourselves if we allow unwarranted accusations to come out of our mouths. I know a girl with a mother like that. She started imagining demons everywhere. Once she laid hands on her microwave to exorcise it.

It is my turn to express concern. What explanation will you have to offer on Judgment Day if your own religion is found defective here and there? What if your ideas and practices are not perfect? Will you be judged as you have judged others? Will you stand condemned by your own words? I would fear to be in your shoes.

 

[Giuliano]

Look at the verb tense. It says that Satan "WAS cast down to the earth, and his angels WERE cast down with him."

Yes, he saw future events happening; but those future events remained in the future. What is so hard about this?

 

[Giuliano]

This is absolutely false!

Miracles come from God's power unless they are false signs and wonders. This is what you're talking about--the false!

All power comes from God. The difference is that evil men use the gifts of God they were blessed with for the wrong purposes. They betray the very God who blessed them and imagine they are somebody when they are not. God will sort that in His own good time.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You may be left then without an explanation about the serpent on the pole being lifted up. Why make an image of "Satan" if he was the serpent? How could that heal anyone? Was Moses also a Satanist? There is a tendency among Christians to condemn and to be afraid of things they don't understand -- "speaking evil of what they know not." We may risk a form of mental instability by condemning things and dignities we don't yet understand.

Actually, 4Jesus gave a good explanation of the serpent on the pole. The serpent was used because the people were dying from snake bites.

We may risk a form of mental instability from condemning evil??? I have the mind of Christ. God has not given me a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind. I will think on that which is GOOD... This snake stuff you're promoting is NOT good! It's evil!

I understand this! It is Satan's method to enslave people. Did you read the LONG list of mental AND physical maladies brought on by this practice of harnessing the devil's power?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

All power comes from God. The difference is that evil men use the gifts of God they were blessed with for the wrong purposes. They betray the very God who blessed them and imagine they are somebody when they are not. God will sort that in His own good time.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

All power BELONGS to God! But not all power is used by God. He allows the devil to wield power, but the power ultimately belongs to God. So, Satan is given power to affect people!

Luke 13:16--Satan has bound this woman, a daughter of Abraham, for 18 years — shouldn’t she be untied from this bondage on the Sabbath day?”

BTW, that verse you quoted is talking about resisting authorities, as in government....

 

[Giuliano]

I don't know anywhere in the Bible that says that it was ever Satan's job to "goad" us back on track when we get off.

Paul explicitly talks about his thorn in the flesh and associates Satan with it. I also hope you see Paul's love when he talks about "delivering" people to Satan.

In fact, he's the one who tempts us to sin! And then he accuses us before our Father.

Rev. 12: 10--And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

If we are tempted to sin, it means something remains to be changed in us. We can "have sin" -- as John says we all do and shouldn't fool ourselves that we don't. But John also says those born of the spirit do not sin. They recognize the signs of temptation. The "goads" get them back on track.

I think that you're confused here. It is God's justice that demands death. And He died for us in order to satisfy His need for justice.

Romans 6:23--For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
.

Are you arguing with me for the sake of arguing? That passage shows what I said, that God's Justice which would demand death is balanced by His Love and Mercy.

 

[Giuliano]

All power BELONGS to God! But not all power is used by God. He allows the devil to wield power, but the power ultimately belongs to God. So, Satan is given power to affect people!

Luke 13:16--Satan has bound this woman, a daughter of Abraham, for 18 years — shouldn’t she be untied from this bondage on the Sabbath day?”

BTW, that verse you quoted is talking about resisting authorities, as in government....

It is talking about government specifically, but all power still ultimately comes from God. There is only One Creator.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Paul explicitly talks about his thorn in the flesh and associates Satan with it. I also hope you see Paul's love when he talks about "delivering" people to Satan.

Yes, Paul said that he would turn a man's body over to Satan so that the man's soul might be saved. (1 Cor. 5:5)

If we are tempted to sin, it means something remains to be changed in us. We can "have sin" -- as John says we all do and shouldn't fool ourselves that we don't. But John also says those born of the spirit do not sin. They recognize the signs of temptation. The "goads" get them back on track.

Jesus was tempted to sin in every way that we are, yet without sin. (Heb 4:15)

Are you arguing with me for the sake of arguing? That passage shows what I said, that God's Justice which would demand death is balanced by His Love and Mercy.

You've GOT to be kidding me! I'm arguing against the falsehoods that you are spewing out!

Edit: You said that "demonic justice demands death for sin."

The demonic justice demands death for sin, failing to see the Wisdom of God for having Mercy.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

It is talking about government specifically, but all power still ultimately comes from God. There is only One Creator.

My point was that you were taking the verse out of context.

 

[brakelite]

Quote me a single one lol

Ye shall not surely die. A&E died. Also, he was intimating that God lied. That insinuation is a lie.

Is it not clear Jesus came to replace something that had fallen?

No. He came to take back that which was His. This planet. Satan, through enticing A&E to disbelieve disobey God, and believe Satan, he won the legal title to the planet because he had taken Adam's dominion. The only way to take it back was for the 'second Adam' to go over the same ground, but not fall for the devil's lies and temptations, and Jesus did that. The earth is now legally and rightfully His. And soon He is returning to take possession.
As for Satan's fall. Jesus said when He was here, I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven. That therefore would have taken place previously to the incarnation. Jesus in His pre-incarnate state witnessed this event. In heaven, before that fall, he managed to convince one third of the angels to side with him. That was some mighty successful political campaign right there. Using slander, he managed to incite doubt and suspicion among the angels, until open war broke out, and he and his mob were cast out. We don't know how long a time period this took place. But I can imagine that there would have been politicking on both sides. Of course, God could have swatted His adversary into deepest space where he would have smacked hard up into a burning comet, never to be seen again. But what would that have accomplished? The ideas that Satan had planted would have remained. It was the idea that God wasn't worthy to rule, that Satan could do better, that needed to be dealt with. This needed time. And in order to prove Satan's attempt at insurrection was based on lies and innuendo and slander, God needed to give the ideas a testing ground. So He created man, and put man in an environment whereby Satan could see how successfully he could bring mankind into his fold. He succeeded with A&E, and legally took control of the planet. But only this planet.
When the rulers of other worlds, the 'sons of God' summoned in Job 1, as the ruler of this world Satan was permitted to attend the council. During this conversation, and with the events that followed, God proved Satan wasn't in complete charge. Job, by his righteous and faithful living, and despite Satan's best efforts to convince him otherwise, remained faithful. As God says elsewhere, there shall always be a remnant.
When Satan enticed the Sanhedrin to murder Jesus, this was the final nail in Satan's coffin. Any lingering doubts among the angels who chose to remain faithful to God were banished. It was then, when all of heaven was convinced of Satan's true motives and absolute wickedness, that heaven was forever shut to him. And why then is Satan still permitted to cause havoc on earth? Because not all people are convinced. When the whole world is finally and irrevocably convinced that Satan's ways are folly, and God's ways are true and good, then Satan and his angels will be destroyed and the ideas...the slanders...and doubts...that Satan sowed into the thinking and psyche of mankind, will be forever settled and dealt with.