The Gospel was changed by God:

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Paul said it, not me.

And apparently a lot of others here think it's foolish, as well.


What that scripture is saying is that those without Faith consider what Paul is preaching is foolish, but God took what the unfaithful considered foolishness to save those who would believe, who would exercise faith in what they heard. That doesn't mean God or Paul considers it foolishness.
 

justbyfaith

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The gospel of the grace of God could not have been preached to them in the wilderness but not recorded as it was hid in God (Ephesians 3:9) and not made known back then (Ephesians 3:5).

Well, it appears that we have a contradiction: because in Hebrews 4:2 it says clearly that "the" gospel was preached to them.

I have done a lot of work in the field of reconciling apparent contradictions in the Bible and I think I will retire. I will therefore leave it up to you to show how these two scriptures don't contradict one another. There is always an answer; I give you the task of finding it.
 

Doug

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Well, it appears that we have a contradiction: because in Hebrews 4:2 it says clearly that "the" gospel was preached to them.

I have done a lot of work in the field of reconciling apparent contradictions in the Bible and I think I will retire. I will therefore leave it up to you to show how these two scriptures don't contradict one another. There is always an answer; I give you the task of finding it.

No.....don't retire.....we have to keep studying. I don't know everything I am just sharing what I have learned but I can be wrong.

The simple answer is there is more than one gospel in the Bible. The Bible is progressive in revelations. There is only one gospel we are to believe in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
 

justbyfaith

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No.....don't retire.....we have to keep studying.

I am content in my knowledge that every apparent contradiction has a reconciliation and an answer. Therefore it is time for me to pass the baton to others.

The simple answer is there is more than one gospel in the Bible.

No; for Hebrews 4:2 shows clearly that there is only one gospel that was preached to us and to them; as defined by the word "the".
 

Doug

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I am content in my knowledge that every apparent contradiction has a reconciliation and an answer. Therefore it is time for me to pass the baton to others.



No; for Hebrews 4:2 shows clearly that there is only one gospel that was preached to us and to them; as defined by the word "the".

Ok I could be wrong....thanks for all your insight.
 

FHII

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What that scripture is saying is that those without Faith consider what Paul is preaching is foolish, but God took what the unfaithful considered foolishness to save those who would believe, who would exercise faith in what they heard. That doesn't mean God or Paul considers it foolishness.
I looked at the scripture again (briefly between jobs) from your point of view. I am not saying you are right or wrong at this point, but I see why you would come up with that belief.

Regardless of whether God or man (and many men do) consider it (preaching) foolish, it's what God chose. Thus, in reality of course I don't consider what God chose to be foolish.

I have another concluding thought to this, but I will save it for tomorrow after I have a higher mental state.

But again, I can appreciate you comment.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I looked at the scripture again (briefly between jobs) from your point of view. I am not saying you are right or wrong at this point, but I see why you would come up with that belief.

Regardless of whether God or man (and many men do) consider it (preaching) foolish, it's what God chose. Thus, in reality of course I don't consider what God chose to be foolish.

I have another concluding thought to this, but I will save it for tomorrow after I have a higher mental state.

But again, I can appreciate you comment.


Read from 1 Corinthians 1:18-23
 

FHII

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What that scripture is saying is that those without Faith consider what Paul is preaching is foolish, but God took what the unfaithful considered foolishness to save those who would believe, who would exercise faith in what they heard. That doesn't mean God or Paul considers it foolishness.


1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I like this verse in light of what you said. Yes, they consider it foolish, but God says the preaching of the word is power, and his power, no less.

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

This is the verse I quoted. Combining it with the previous verse, I see your point.

1 Corinthians 1:22-23 KJV
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: [23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock,

The Jews required a sign, funny thing is they got many. The Greeks (I suppose this means the philophers of the world) looked for wisdom, and I believe the OT had that and the prophesies did as well. But neither group accepted the signs or philosophy given*

*Keep in mind the education Paul had. He was a student of both the Torah and Greek Philophy. He even borrowed from both in his writings. He counted it t as dung, which confused me a little since he used it so much. I understand that it was but dung compared to the revelation he received, but... He still borrowed from both the Torah and classic Greek Philophy.

1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Here we have two contrasts:. 1. The foolishness of God vs. the wisdom of men; 2. The weakness of God vs. the strength of men.

If God has no weakness or no foolishness, there can be no contrast, yet Paul makes a contrast. He is comparing the lesser things of God with the greater things of men.

Does mankind have strength and wisdom? On a natural level, yes. On a spiritual level, it cannot even be compared. That is, our natural strength and knowledge to that of God.

1 Corinthians 1:27 KJV
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

This is a verse we can both point to for support. "Foolish" things and "weak" things are of this world. But God chose THEM.

So the foolishness of God is preaching. The weakness of God is the Church (I haven't proved that, but I can provide scripture to prove that). It's of man, but he did chose it.

In conclusion: no, I don't believe it is a weakness. I am the one defending what is called "weakness". You are saying God has no weakness... I agree, but the preaching is what is called weakness and it's the power of God.

It's greater than just reading the Bible on your own.

So, with a God who is perfect and has declared the end from the beginning, no there is no weakness. I agree with you. But he did power down... He chose preaching to save them that believe
 

Davy

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There is more than one gospel in the Bible. It is imperative to comprehend not only to whom each gospel was given, but how they differ. It is also of the upmost importance to know which gospel is for our salvation unto eternal life.

No, there is only one... Gospel of Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul preached the same Gospel of Jesus Christ that the other Apostles preached, the main difference is that Paul was especially sent by Jesus to preach to the Gentiles (Acts 9). But he was also... sent to preach The Gospel to kings, and to the children of Israel...

Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

KJV

Now if Paul also preached The Gospel to the "children of Israel" like my Lord Jesus said, then HOW could he preach two different Gospels, especially when Paul rebuked anyone preaching a different Gospel than what he preached??? (Galatians 1). Duh? For those who can... think for themselves, this means Paul preached the same... Gospel to the "children of Israel".

Those on the double gospel idea obviously cannot understand the very Scriptures they try to use to prove their false dual-gospel idea.
 
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H. Richard

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No, there is only one... Gospel of Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul preached the same Gospel of Jesus Christ that the other Apostles preached, the main difference is that Paul was especially sent by Jesus to preach to the Gentiles (Acts 9). But he was also... sent to preach The Gospel to kings, and to the children of Israel...

Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

KJV

Now if Paul also preached The Gospel to the "children of Israel" like my Lord Jesus said, then HOW could he preach two different Gospels, especially when Paul rebuked anyone preaching a different Gospel than what he preached??? (Galatians 1). Duh? For those who can... think for themselves, this means Paul preached the same... Gospel to the "children of Israel".

Those on the double gospel idea obviously cannot understand the very Scriptures they try to use to prove their false dual-gospel idea.

Paul said that the gospel was that God (Jesus) paid for all the sins of the world when He, Jesus, shed His blood. Show me where that is said in the 4 gospels.

Why do you ignore what Jesus said when He said he only came to the "lost Sheep of Israel". But you say He came to the Gentiles too. I think I will believe Jesus.
 
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Davy

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My my you are showing so much love for others. Are you mad enough to want to kill me as the religious killed Stephen??

I just called you a Pharisee, you ignoramous. If you knew half as much of God's Word as you try to let on, you'd be even more dangerous to the Faithful among Christ's Church. Why don't you come out of the closet and reveal who you really are, and the mammon you actually serve?
 

Davy

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Paul said that the gospel was that God (Jesus) paid for all the sins of the world when He, Jesus, shed His blood. Show me where that is said in the 4 gospels.

Why do you ignore what Jesus said when He said he only came to the "lost Sheep of Israel". But you say He came to the Gentiles too. I think I will believe Jesus.

Why do you ignore the Scripture I just showed? Apostle Paul didn't only preach to Gentiles. Like Jesus said in Acts 9, He chose Paul to preach The Gospel to the "children of Israel" also, and to kings! Apostle Peter was also sent to preach to Gentiles, that's what the whole Acts 10 Chapter is about! What both Paul and Peter preached was the SAME Gospel of Jesus Christ, not two different gospels.

So ANYONE... who preaches another gospel which Paul did NOT preach, let that man be accursed like Apostle Paul said...

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

KJV

That... is the curse those are under who preach a dual-gospel idea like you're doing.

The way that I KNOW what I say is true beyond any doubt on this, is by the simple fact that Paul would have been cursing himself IF he had preached a different Gospel to the "children of Israel".
 
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Davy

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What that scripture is saying is that those without Faith consider what Paul is preaching is foolish, but God took what the unfaithful considered foolishness to save those who would believe, who would exercise faith in what they heard. That doesn't mean God or Paul considers it foolishness.

Really not the topic. John Darby's (1830's) Dispensationalist theories caused this rift the OP is preaching.

Because Darby believed in a pre-trib rapture theory, that Jesus would rapture the Church to Heaven prior to the tribulation, Darby also created a rift between Israel and Christ's Church after Jesus' return.

Darby's Dispensationalist theories promoted the false idea that after Christ's return, the nation of Israel would be established on earth, but the Church would reign with Jesus from Heaven.

The 1880s British scholar E.W. Bullinger, who also latched onto the pre-trib rapture theory of 1830's Britain, and Darby's Dispensationalism, took it further, and created the idea this meant there were two separate gospels. Bullinger taught the false idea that the 'gospel of the kingdom' phrase meant something different than the 'gospel of Christ'. It was because of the pre-trib rapture theory and Darby's Dispensationalist theory, and not from actual Bible Scripture.

Per God's Word, Jesus is returning 'here', back to earth, where He ascended to Heaven from (Acts 1; Zechariah 14). And He is bringing His faithful alseep saints from Heaven with Him, and those of His faithful still alive on earth will be caught up to Him on the way to Jerusalem. Christ's Church is not... going to be raptured to Heaven, and definitely not gathered prior the time of great tribulation that He taught.

So if you agree with the OP, then it means you also agree with Darby's and Bullinger's theories.
 

H. Richard

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Why do you ignore the Scripture I just showed? Apostle Paul didn't only preach to Gentiles. Like Jesus said in Acts 9, He chose Paul to preach The Gospel to the "children of Israel" also, and to kings! Apostle Peter was also sent to preach to Gentiles, that's what the whole Acts 10 Chapter is about! What both Paul and Peter preached was the SAME Gospel of Jesus Christ, not two different gospels.

So ANYONE... who preaches another gospel which Paul did NOT preach, let that man be accursed like Apostle Paul said...

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

KJV

That... is the curse those are under who preach a dual-gospel idea like you're doing.

The way that I KNOW what I say is true beyond any doubt on this, is by the simple fact that Paul would have been cursing himself IF he had preached a different Gospel to the "children of Israel".

I will ignore the words you used against me as being rubbish.

But since you insist on saying the 12 were teaching the same gospel Paul was teaching then explain Acts 21:20

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
NKJV

Yes, Paul was indeed teaching that everyone including the Jews were not under the Law of Moses any longer. But obviously James was not.

It continues to the fact that those believing Jews plotted to kill Paul. It leaves you to explain why the believing Jews only wanted to kill Paul and not kill James too.

But you will not explain it because your idea will keep you from it.
 

H. Richard

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I just called you a Pharisee, you ignoramous. If you knew half as much of God's Word as you try to let on, you'd be even more dangerous to the Faithful among Christ's Church. Why don't you come out of the closet and reveal who you really are, and the mammon you actually serve?

So you think you know more about the word of God than I do. Well that is just your opinion. You can't prove it.

I don't think I have ever said the thinks about others that you have said about me. But I see you enjoyed doing it. Doesn't sound like a person calling themselves a Christian would say. You sound more like a child to me.

I have to wonder how old you are and how many years you have studied the Scriptures. Of course you can say anything you wish even if it is not true. And you would.
 

farouk

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1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I like this verse in light of what you said. Yes, they consider it foolish, but God says the preaching of the word is power, and his power, no less.

1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

This is the verse I quoted. Combining it with the previous verse, I see your point.

1 Corinthians 1:22-23 KJV
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: [23] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock,

The Jews required a sign, funny thing is they got many. The Greeks (I suppose this means the philophers of the world) looked for wisdom, and I believe the OT had that and the prophesies did as well. But neither group accepted the signs or philosophy given*

*Keep in mind the education Paul had. He was a student of both the Torah and Greek Philophy. He even borrowed from both in his writings. He counted it t as dung, which confused me a little since he used it so much. I understand that it was but dung compared to the revelation he received, but... He still borrowed from both the Torah and classic Greek Philophy.

1 Corinthians 1:25 KJV
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Here we have two contrasts:. 1. The foolishness of God vs. the wisdom of men; 2. The weakness of God vs. the strength of men.

If God has no weakness or no foolishness, there can be no contrast, yet Paul makes a contrast. He is comparing the lesser things of God with the greater things of men.

Does mankind have strength and wisdom? On a natural level, yes. On a spiritual level, it cannot even be compared. That is, our natural strength and knowledge to that of God.

1 Corinthians 1:27 KJV
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

This is a verse we can both point to for support. "Foolish" things and "weak" things are of this world. But God chose THEM.

So the foolishness of God is preaching. The weakness of God is the Church (I haven't proved that, but I can provide scripture to prove that). It's of man, but he did chose it.

In conclusion: no, I don't believe it is a weakness. I am the one defending what is called "weakness". You are saying God has no weakness... I agree, but the preaching is what is called weakness and it's the power of God.

It's greater than just reading the Bible on your own.

So, with a God who is perfect and has declared the end from the beginning, no there is no weakness. I agree with you. But he did power down... He chose preaching to save them that believe
Great verses there! :)
 
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