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Featured The Gospel was changed by God:

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You are misrepresenting The Gospel, our Lord Jesus Christ, and what He and His Apostles taught. Jesus already had said that John the Baptist was preaching baptism of repentance and baptizing in the wilderness for the remission of sins (Mark 1). Jesus showed that John the Baptist would come first to prepare the way per prophecy in Isaiah. So you cannot hide that by trying to isolate what Jesus said in those Scriptures about belief on Him only.

    Well, that is The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and ALL... of Christ's Apostles preached that after His death and resurrection. Or maybe you think they preached salvation through someone or something else??? So you haven't proven anything by just quoting from those of Paul's Epistles.

    Yet Paul did baptize some, so right off the bat you attempt to create a leaven doctrine by twisting what Paul said. The rebuke Paul was giving the brethren there in 1 Cor.1 was because of how they had divided themselves into men's doctrines and were following men instead of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the very thing those like you are doing with the double gospel leaven doctrine from men.

    What? Like The Holy Spirit didn't come upon Christ's Apostles first like Jesus told them, and then upon believing Gentiles when Peter first preached The Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10???

    No need for me to continue with the rest of your post, as I've well proven enough of how those on the false dual-gospel idea have duped you and try to twist Scripture against God's Truth.
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 25:32-46 isn't just about Gentiles. All nations means believers from the nation of Israel too. You cannot isolate them in that Scripture.

    Like I said before, there's beth-avens (house of vanity) out there teaching the leaven doctrines of men, and God allows to us be deceived if we want to listen to man instead of Him in His Word. And the fact that Christ's future Kingdom to come is going to be a reality on this earth is well written of in both Old and New Testaments. It's those beth-avens that pull a verse here and there from the New Testament and instead add men's leaven to it that isolates Christ's coming literal Kingdom to be established here on earth at His coming.

    Isa 2:2-3
    2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

    3 And many people shall go and say, 'Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
    KJV


    If you just stay in the New Testament only, then your understanding about these things are going to be very limited. This is the reason why the beth-avens come up with so many dream castle doctrines about the "kingdom of heaven" Jesus taught. That above Isaiah 2 Scripture isn't about today's world. It's about Christ's future Kingdom on earth, with its center established at Jerusalem, but in a new Jerusalem. The dimension of Heaven is actually going to be revealed right here, on earth, at His return.


    Peter being sent to the Gentiles was just an example of the Isaiah prophecy that God's Salvation included the believing Gentile. Men's leaven doctrines had hidden those Old Testament prophecies from the Jewish people, as they were instead taught to separate from Gentiles.

    Isa 11:10
    10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
    KJV

    Isa 49:6
    6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
    KJV

    Isa 60:3
    3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
    KJV

    Isa 60:5
    5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
    KJV
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    You said:
    "Jesus already had said that John the Baptist was preaching baptism of repentance and baptizing in the wilderness for the remission of sins (Mark 1). Jesus showed that John the Baptist would come first to prepare the way per prophecy in Isaiah. So you cannot hide that by trying to isolate what Jesus said in those Scriptures about belief on Him only."

    I am sorry but I don't understand what you are saying.....what am I hiding here?
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    You said:
    "What? Like The Holy Spirit didn't come upon Christ's Apostles first like Jesus told them, and then upon believing Gentiles when Peter first preached The Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10???"

    The Holy Ghost fell on them because Christ told them it would in Acts 1:5
    In Acts 2 the Holy Ghost fell on them which Peter said fulfilled Joel Acts 2:16
    Peter was speaking to the men of Israel Acts 2:22
    When they heard Peter they asked what to do Acts 2:37
    Peter told them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and they would receive the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38

    In Acts 10:44 the Holy Ghost fell on them while Peter was speaking
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You're whole premise here has been with a double gospel idea, or don't you remember you pushing that idea?

    Then you tried to use what our Lord Jesus and the 12 Apostles preached in contrast to what Apostle Paul preached as proof of that, of which is no such proof of a double gospel. Christ's Apostles sent out at the first to preach, prior to Christ's death and resurrection, was still... the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus simply had not yet died on the cross at that time. The second time He sent them out to preach the Gospel was after His death and resurrection...

    Matt 28:18-20
    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, 'All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
    KJV


    Apostle Paul even said this in reference to the Gospel preached to Abraham, showing it was the same Gospel he preached to Gentiles...

    Gal 3:7-9
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    KJV


    Preached what Gospel to Abraham? Was Paul speaking of another gospel there? No, of course not. It's been the same Gospel of Jesus Christ all along.
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, so??? That has nothing to do with the leaven doctrine of a double gospel.


    Peter was showing the cloven tongue was an example of Joel 2, not a fulfillment of it. You should study what Peter quoted from the Book of Joel more closely, as Joel 2 is particularly about the very end just prior to the "day of the Lord", i.e., our near future. But once again, you're reaching, because none of that supports the false idea of a double gospel.

    Yes, so??? The command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins is part of The Gospel Message for everyone. Paul was baptized too, so don't tell me he didn't see the need to get baptized.

    Rom 3:24-25
    24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    KJV

    Start of Paul's Commission:

    Acts 9:17-20
    17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, 'Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.'
    18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

    19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
    20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
    KJV



    Yes, even as when Paul asked brethren in Ephesus unto what were they baptized, when Paul mentioned this...

    Acts 19:3-6
    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him Which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
    KJV


    ... then they were baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ.

    They had simply yet to hear about Christ's death and resurrection. Christ's command to His disciples to go to all nations preaching Christ crucified and to be baptized didn't go away with Paul's preaching either.

    So if the doctrine of a dual gospel you preach includes the idea that we don't have get baptized as part of our belief on Jesus Christ, then for certain and even more so, your doctrine is a doctrine of devils!
     
  7. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    The first thing one needs to note here is that Paul is explicitly referring to the "ministry" of the law. This is an explicit reference to how the law was administered. It is also important to note that the people do not have a problem gazing at the law itself, but "the face of Moses".

    Note again he is still referring to the 'ministry'.

    Again, it is important to note that this is explicitly referring to the administration of the law; specifically how it is administered.

    And what was passing away was the way the law was administered.

    Paul doesn't ever refer to any veil of the law, but always of the veil that covered Moses' face. It is covering Moses' face, not the law. Moses is gone, but the law not only remains, but will remain "until heaven and earth pass away".

    False. Luke points out that the church not only wasn't fading away, but existed at the time the Mosaic law was given to Moses, and was subsequently given to the church after Christ's death. "38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:" Acts 7:38

    Give to who? The church.

    Note that it is still on their hearts, not the book of Moses.


    Again, note that it is the veil that is taken away, not the law.

    17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    And that has always been the case with salvation. There was never a time when man could work his way into salvation. The old testament nowhere suggests that one can be saved by works[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  8. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    My responses are inserted above in the text in bold text. Click to expand
     
  9. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we have now is better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).
     
  10. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that Jesus changed the gospel? If so, how did he change it?
     
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Luther changed the gospel. He made it possible for carnal men to feel saved...by believing they are saved for believing that Jesus will save them. So then ignoring everything Jesus said in order to put one's faith in Luther is seen as being a follower of Christ.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  12. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Look at the context. He's pointing out that the law can't save anyone. He's pointing out that the law cannot cover their sin, or even more to the point, can't stop them from sinning whereas Jesus' sacrifice does "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

    This is not an invitation to sin, but pointing out that Christ's intercession covers sin, and redeems the sinner.
     
  13. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I misread your earlier post. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  14. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Are you replying to my post? I don't see anything inserted anywhere
     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    It does say that the law was changed. It does say that what we now have is better than the law.

    (You may gather than I am dispensational.)
     
  16. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    The law is changed, but only in the sense that we live by faith rather than by the law. God's promise is sure, whereas the law makes no promises, and never did. This isn't to say that it's now acceptable to break the law, right? It's just pointing out that the sacrificial system (which is what priests were for, right?) is no longer necessary because those who are saved by promise, can't sin. God promises it.
     
  17. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The passage also mentions the change in the priesthood system which only underlines the fact that the law was changed. (I guess as a dispensationalist my antennae are primed to notice this kind of aspect.)
     
  18. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Responses in bold type....click expand
     
  19. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    No sorry
    I was not responding to you
     
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I guess sometimes dialogue is good; sometimes he said/ she said can become circular.

    I do think Scriptural, doctrinal subjects are very important.
     
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