Was Noah “saved by grace through faith”?

[VictoryinJesus]

could have remained perfect.

charity (to give to another)is perfect. Not speaking of money.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

All I meant by agreeing with the other poster is I can somewhat see Adam choices were tough. The second command is love of others above yourself and seek for their gain above your own gain.

I would agree that Adam's choice was a tough one, but this doesn't mean that it was an IMPOSSIBLE choice. Like I said before, Adam could have obeyed God.

The second command is love of others above yourself and seek for their gain above your own gain. Do we separate the second command from the first command to love God: when God says to love Him is in loving another even when they don’t deserve it.

Here, you're talking about the law given to Israel through Moses, i.e. the Mosaic law.

Adam's disobedience was in NO WAY loving Eve. IOW, it was not love that caused him to disobey his Creator. We are not told what Adam was thinking when he sinned. I would love to know, though.

Romans 9:1-3 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

“Accursed” separated, cut off... is it a sin for Paul to voice he feels this way about his brethren ...or fulfillment of the First command of Love God by (obedience) in doing the second...Does it mean he loves his brethren MORE than God or loves his brethren BECAUSE of God?

I really don't see how you are tying Adam's disobedience to Paul's statement here. Paul is not saying that he would disobey God so that his brethren could be saved.
.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So why did Noah need grace?

Stranger

Because Noah could not save himself, by himself from the flood. Just as we need grace today for we cannot save ourselves by ourselves.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Noah was justified by faith, and received grace (unmerited favor) from God. He wasn't saved by doing anything, this was only evidence of his conversion, not the cause.

God required Noah to do some thing, a work in building the ark. Had Noah not done this obedient work but instead disobeyed and rebelled against God then he would not have received God's grace in the form of the saving of his house.

There are many examples in the Bible. like that of Noah, of God requiring man to do a work in order to receive a free gift.

--Naaman being healed by God was a free gift of God's grace but Naaman still had to first do the obedient work in dipping in the river.
--Jericho was a free gift of God to Israel but they still had to do the obedient work in marching around the city to receive the free gift.
--Jesus spat on the ground creating a potion to put in the blind man's eyes, but he still had to do the obedient work in going and washing his eyes before he could see.
--In John 6:27 Jesus Himself said to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which the son of man shall give unto you. Everlasting life is a free gift, something that Christ "gives" yet one must still do the conditional obedient work of believing before one can receive this free gift.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yes, absolutely! This is what I was saying all along. I suppose the difference in what I am saying (as oppose to what others may may be saying) is that he found Grace and had faith BEFORE he built the ark. He didn't receive such because he built the ark.

Noah found grace in God's eyes due to his obedience and he had to CONTINUE to obey God to continue be in God's grace. Had he disobeyed in not building the ark, he would no longer being in God's grace. Hence he had to first obey in building the ark before receiving God's grace in the form of saving his house.

 

[Enoch111]

God required Noah to do some thing, a work in building the ark. Had Noah not done this obedient work but instead disobeyed and rebelled against God then he would not have received God's grace in the form of the saving of his house.

You've got it backwards, and the Bible corroborates that. But then again, many don't like to give up their pet theories in the face of dozens of Scriptures.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You've got it backwards, and the Bible corroborates that. But then again, many don't like to give up their pet theories in the face of dozens of Scriptures.

God did not first UNconditionally save Noah's household THEN Noah built the ark. The CONDITIONAL obedience (building the ark) came first THEN he received God's grace in the form of the saving of his house.

"....prepared an ark to (eis - unto, toward) the saving of his house;..." The obedient work was looking forward, unto the saving of his house. He did not build the ark BECAUSE his house was already saved from a flood that had not yet occured. Likewise, in Acts of the Apostles 2:38 baptism is eis- UNTO, TOWARD remission of sins and not BECAUSE one's sin's have already been remitted. Building the ark was a necessary condition God placed upon his free gift (saving Noah's house) as baptism is a necessary condition GOd has placed upon his free gift (salvation). Meeting a condition placed upon a free gift does not earn the gift.

 

[FHII]

Noah found grace in God's eyes due to his obedience and he had to CONTINUE to obey God to continue be in God's grace. Had he disobeyed in not building the ark, he would no longer being in God's grace. Hence he had to first obey in building the ark before receiving God's grace in the form of saving his house.

well, you almost got it right... But you juuuuust gotta slip a little of that works doctrine in, don't
you? Just can't let God's grace do it alone, huh?

One more time: Noah had grace and faith BEFORE he was told to build the ark. He had it before "saving his house".

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

well, you almost got it right... But you juuuuust gotta slip a little of that works doctrine in, don't
you? Just can't let God's grace do it alone, huh?

One more time: Noah had grace and faith BEFORE he was told to build the ark. He had it before "saving his house".

I have not argued that one can do works and earned salvation. But what I have argued, and the Bible shows, is that salvation is a CONDITIONAL free gift and God has placed conditions (obedience to His will) upon His free gift. Meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift is not working to earn the free gift.

In the case of Noah, "grace alone" would not be enough to save Noah's household. It took BOTH God's grace AND Noah's obedience in building the ark to save Noah's house. Grace and obedience therefore go together like hand in glove and are not antagonistic to each other. In Romans 6, Paul would reply "God forbid" to the idea of salvation by grace alone. Just because the Christian is saved by grace does not give the Christian a right to disobey God. Paul (Romans 6:16) says we each are serving either:

1) sin unto death (condemnation)
or
2) obedience unto righteousness (salvation)

The disobedient, rebellious person is serving sin unto death, he certainly would not be serving obedience unto righteousness. Had Noah rebelled and disobeyed God, he would have been serving sin unto death, would have failed to receive God's grace in saving his house and would have been lost with the wicked.

I understand Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord BEFORE he built the ark. Yet finding grace in God's eyes is NOT an unconditional, instantaneous one time done deal for all time regardless as to how one lives his life. To find grace in God's eyes one must FIRST obey and then just as importantly CONTINUE to obey God's will else fall from God's grace. Had Noah not continued to obey God by building the ark, he would have fallen from grace.

 

[FHII]

I have not argued that one can do works and earned salvation. But what I have argued, and the Bible shows, is that salvation is a CONDITIONAL free gift and God has placed conditions (obedience to His will) upon His free gift.

We'll see, you are doing it right here and right now! You are saying that Noah's Grace was conditional on his work of building the ark. You are just replacing "work" with "obedience".

I fully acknowledge that obedience is important. But Grace doesn't come by obedience; it comes by faith. Faith doesn't come by obedience either, it comes by hearing the Word. Now, THEN you can talk about obedience. It comes after 1. Hearing God, 2. Gaining faith, 3. Receiving Grace.

I by know means am downgrading the importance of obedience. Like James said, be doers of the Word. But no, Grace is not always conditional on obedience. It can cause problems, and depending on the circumstance, yea... It may bring damnation. But Moses disobeyed God and it kept him out of the promise Land. It didn't damn him. Jonah disobeyed God and he spent 3 days "in hell" (in the belly of a whale) but I don't think he was damned. Solomon, Jehu, Uzzah.... They come to mind as well.

As for Noah, I see nothing in the Bible that suggests that it was ever a concern of God or Noah that he may have disobeyed the commission to build the ark. It's seems that it was never even a question in either of their minds. Personally, I believe God picked Noah because He knew it would get done without even a debate. So, it's rather pointless to bring it up.

But I will agree with you that it's important to obey God. Just don't apply that to following the Law, which I believe many secretly try to slip in through Socratic reasoning.

 

[Stranger]

Because Noah could not save himself, by himself from the flood. Just as we need grace today for we cannot save ourselves by ourselves.

So, when God said Noah found grace in His eyes, He was only talking about Noah not drowning? Did Noah need grace to be saved just like you and I? And maybe that is the reason Noah was delivered from the flood?

Stranger

 

[CNKW3]

I have already told you. I don't reject baptism as part of salvation.

Stranger

Yes you do. You said this...
I hold to the importance of water baptism for your walk of salvation. But it is not necessary to be born-again
Being born again is salvation. Christ said you can’t enter the kingdom without it. Can you be “born again” and still be in your sins? No! The Bible ties baptism to raising to walk in newness of life, being freed from sin, being quickened, made alive, the circumcision without hands, being placed into Christ, salvation. You say no.
Here’s the ironic part to all of this; you are building an entire doctrine around God saying....he believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness. You say that it was at that moment God considered him righteous. Not before. But when we come to the NT you are inconsistent and don’t take God at his word like you do with that one Abraham verse.
For example.
God tells us.....
That salvation comes after baptism Mk 16:15,16.....you say no
That the born again process includes water jn 3:5....you say no
That remission of sins comes after baptism ac 2:38.....you say no
That the lord adds to the church/his body after baptism ac 2:40,41,47.....you say no
That sins are washed away at baptism ac 22:16.....you say no
That calling on the name of the lord happens at baptism ac 22:16......you say no
That we are raised to walk in newness of life in baptism Rom 6:3-5.....you say no
That we get “into Christ” through baptism Rom 6:3,4; Gal 3:27.....you say no
That we are freed from sin after obedience in baptism Ro 6:3,4,17,18......you say no
That it’s through baptism we are circumcised by Christ Col 2:11......you say no
That we are quickened, made alive through baptism Col 2:11-13......you say no
That we become an heir to the promise of Abraham after baptism Gal 3:26-29.....you say no
That we are sanctified by the washing of water. Eph 5:26....you say no
That we are saved through the washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5......you say no
That baptism doth also now save us 1 pet 3:21.....you say no

before you say that you didn’t say no to any of the above, you need to look at the list. Everything in the above list has to do with being born again and I have you above saying that baptism has nothing to do with that so YES you have said no to everything above. It’s ironic you cling to one verse but deny clear, straight forward statements from God describing the importance of baptism where God is specifically stating at what point our sins are removed, and at what point we are raised to walk in newness of life, quickened, made alive, spiritually circumcised, freed from sins, or “born again”.

 

[CNKW3]

Again, I didn't say Abraham was not a believer when he left for Ur. I said God did not impute righteousness to him until his faith was all there was. And his faith was directed toward the Seed to come. And to this Paul agrees. (Rom. 4:3).

Where does the Bible say....Abraham was lacking in faith in Gen 12-14? Please show me that.

If Abraham had faith but wasn’t considered righteous and he is your example then how do you know at what point you are saved today? Because you too can have faith, you can be obedient in faith just like Abraham but still not be counted as righteous??? I would hate to be a part of that doctrine.

Today when one places faith in Christ, they are exercising the faith that results in the imputed righteousness of Christ.

How do you know? Did Abraham not place his faith in God by packing up and leaving? Did Abraham not place his faith in God by being obedient through sacrifices all along the way? Did Abraham not “call on the name of the lord”?
But you say he was not counted as righteous until years later. How do you know that at the point you have mental acceptance of Christ that you are counted as righteous? Because according to you God might not count you as righteous until years later.

(Rom. 4:6-8) does not prove that God does not impute righteousness at the point of belief today. Where did you get that idea?

lets look at what it says...

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Paul is now about to give an explanation of what he just said

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Paul now is using David to help explain what he means by all of this. Who is this man God considers righteous apart from works?

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The man whom God counts as righteous is the man whose iniquities or sins have been forgiven. And this DOES NOT happen at the point of belief today. If you want proof of that go back and read my list I provided you in the above post. The list I provided you with scripture. I didn’t want you to think I was lazy. Now you provide me a list where God specifically explains how your sins are removed at the point of belief before you ever do anything.

 

[Stranger]

Yes you do. You said this...
I hold to the importance of water baptism for your walk of salvation. But it is not necessary to be born-again
Being born again is salvation. Christ said you can’t enter the kingdom without it. Can you be “born again” and still be in your sins? No! The Bible ties baptism to raising to walk in newness of life, being freed from sin, being quickened, made alive, the circumcision without hands, being placed into Christ, salvation. You say no.
Here’s the ironic part to all of this; you are building an entire doctrine around God saying....he believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness. You say that it was at that moment God considered him righteous. Not before. But when we come to the NT you are inconsistent and don’t take God at his word like you do with that one Abraham verse.
For example.
God tells us.....
That salvation comes after baptism Mk 16:15,16.....you say no
That the born again process includes water jn 3:5....you say no
That remission of sins comes after baptism ac 2:38.....you say no
That the lord adds to the church/his body after baptism ac 2:40,41,47.....you say no
That sins are washed away at baptism ac 22:16.....you say no
That calling on the name of the lord happens at baptism ac 22:16......you say no
That we are raised to walk in newness of life in baptism Rom 6:3-5.....you say no
That we get “into Christ” through baptism Rom 6:3,4; Gal 3:27.....you say no
That we are freed from sin after obedience in baptism Ro 6:3,4,17,18......you say no
That it’s through baptism we are circumcised by Christ Col 2:11......you say no
That we are quickened, made alive through baptism Col 2:11-13......you say no
That we become an heir to the promise of Abraham after baptism Gal 3:26-29.....you say no
That we are sanctified by the washing of water. Eph 5:26....you say no
That we are saved through the washing of regeneration. Titus 3:5......you say no
That baptism doth also now save us 1 pet 3:21.....you say no

before you say that you didn’t say no to any of the above, you need to look at the list. Everything in the above list has to do with being born again and I have you above saying that baptism has nothing to do with that so YES you have said no to everything above. It’s ironic you cling to one verse but deny clear, straight forward statements from God describing the importance of baptism where God is specifically stating at what point our sins are removed, and at what point we are raised to walk in newness of life, quickened, made alive, spiritually circumcised, freed from sins, or “born again”.

Yes, I did say it. Water baptism is not necessary to be born-again. You fail to see that salvation is not just being born-again. It involves the whole aspect of your being brought from a lost state to being justified, to walking in that salvation (sanctification), to a future glorified state in Heaven. (Ps. 37:39) "But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble." Water baptism is that part of your salvation involving your sanctification. It is your public display, your witness, that you identify with Jesus Christ. I do not believe that one can fully come into all that sanctification involves if they reject being water baptized.

I believe everyone of the Scriptures that you have listed. Thus, your accusation that I say no, is incorrect.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Where does the Bible say....Abraham was lacking in faith in Gen 12-14? Please show me that.

If Abraham had faith but wasn’t considered righteous and he is your example then how do you know at what point you are saved today? Because you too can have faith, you can be obedient in faith just like Abraham but still not be counted as righteous??? I would hate to be a part of that doctrine.

How do you know? Did Abraham not place his faith in God by packing up and leaving? Did Abraham not place his faith in God by being obedient through sacrifices all along the way? Did Abraham not “call on the name of the lord”?
But you say he was not counted as righteous until years later. How do you know that at the point you have mental acceptance of Christ that you are counted as righteous? Because according to you God might not count you as righteous until years later.

lets look at what it says...

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Paul is now about to give an explanation of what he just said

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Paul now is using David to help explain what he means by all of this. Who is this man God considers righteous apart from works?

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The man whom God counts as righteous is the man whose iniquities or sins have been forgiven. And this DOES NOT happen at the point of belief today. If you want proof of that go back and read my list I provided you in the above post. The list I provided you with scripture. I didn’t want you to think I was lazy. Now you provide me a list where God specifically explains how your sins are removed at the point of belief before you ever do anything.

I never said Abraham was lacking in faith.

A person who places faith in Jesus Christ has righteousness imputed to them at that moment. He can know it because he has believed that which God says he must believe. Like with Abraham, righteousness was not imputed until he could do nothing but believe, and when his faith was based on the coming Saviour.

I agree with (Rom. 4:6-8). I don't agree with what you are saying it says. It does not say that God does not impute righteousness to the believer at the moment of his belief. It says just the opposite. It is talking about ones initial faith and so being declared righteous by God. The man whom God declares righteous, is the man whom God will not impute sin.

I don't need a list. You just need to believe (Rom. 4:6-8). I don't google lists.

Stranger

 

[CNKW3]

Yes, I did say it. Water baptism is not necessary to be born-again. You fail to see that salvation is not just being born-again. It involves the whole aspect of your being brought from a lost state to being justified, to walking in that salvation (sanctification), to a future glorified state in Heaven. (Ps. 37:39) "But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble." Water baptism is that part of your salvation involving your sanctification. It is your public display, your witness, that you identify with Jesus Christ. I do not believe that one can fully come into all that sanctification involves if they reject being water baptized.

I believe everyone of the Scriptures that you have listed. Thus, your accusation that I say no, is incorrect.

Stranger

Well it’s good to hear that you believe all those scriptures. So when the Bible says....baptism also now saves us, I’ll know you agree.
There is some problems though.
The list specifically says it is through baptism that one “raises to walk in newness of life”. That is “born again”! if not why not? A new life is a new creation.
Also, one cannot be justified and not be “in Christ”, because the only place salvation is found is “in Christ”. 2 Tim 2:10.
The Bible plainly states that we get “into Christ” through baptism. Rom 6:3,4; Gal 3:26,27
And 2 Cor 5:17 says that if any man be “in Christ” he is a new creation. So, you see how all of this ties together.
You cannot be justified outside of Christ.
You cannot be a “new creation” outside of Christ.
You get “into Christ” through baptism.
So, the logical conclusion is one must be baptized in order to get “into Christ” where one then is justified and raised to walk in newness of life or made a new creation or BORN AGAIN.

 

[CNKW3]

I never said Abraham was lacking in faith.

you said....
“I said God did not impute righteousness to him until his faith was all there”
Please tell me what “until his faith was ALL THERE” means? If someone’s faith is NOT “all there” then it is lacking. There faith has come short in some area. This is how you describe Abraham in Gen 12-14. So how can a persons faith not be “all there” when he is obeying, sacrificing and calling on the name of the lord? The fact, is that your wrong.

A person who places faith in Jesus Christ has righteousness imputed to them at that moment. He can know it because he has believed that which God says he must believe.

oh, like when God says that sins are remitted and washed away after baptism? Do we have to believe that? Was Sauls sins washed away before or after baptism? Do we have to believe what the Bible says there?
I like all the scriptural support you supplied.

Like with Abraham, righteousness was not imputed until he could do nothing but believe, and when his faith was based on the coming Saviour.

Oh, so his faith was lacking! There was something he didn’t believe in in Chapters 12-14.
Now you have Abraham believing in Christ? Where does it ever say that? Gen 15:1-7 is about Abraham wanting a child of his own. Nowhere does it mention a “saviour”. You are making things up as you go.

I agree with (Rom. 4:6-8). I don't agree with what you are saying it says. It does not say that God does not impute righteousness to the believer at the moment of his belief. It says just the opposite. It is talking about ones initial faith and so being declared righteous by God. The man whom God declares righteous, is the man whom God will not impute sin.

I don't need a list. You just need to believe (Rom. 4:6-8). I don't google lists.

Stranger

Hahaha! You think I “googled” a list? Then “google” it and show it to me. Then you can show me by all of your supporting scripture where God forgives sin BEFORE baptism. If you can’t find them then “google” it.

 

[CNKW3]

Yes, I did say it. Water baptism is not necessary to be born-again. You fail to see that salvation is not just being born-again. It involves the whole aspect of your being brought from a lost state to being justified, to walking in that salvation (sanctification), to a future glorified state in Heaven. (Ps. 37:39) "But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble." Water baptism is that part of your salvation involving your sanctification.

I find this interesting!
You just said that salvation is “not just being born again”. Salvation also includes sanctification, which when you put 2 and 2 together you are saying that one is not totally saved until after sanctification. And you just said that baptism is a part of sanctification so now you are saying that baptism is necessary for salvation since it is a part of our sanctification and salvation is not complete until we are sanctified. Talk about coming out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

We'll see, you are doing it right here and right now! You are saying that Noah's Grace was conditional on his work of building the ark. You are just replacing "work" with "obedience".

I fully acknowledge that obedience is important. But Grace doesn't come by obedience; it comes by faith. Faith doesn't come by obedience either, it comes by hearing the Word. Now, THEN you can talk about obedience. It comes after 1. Hearing God, 2. Gaining faith, 3. Receiving Grace.

I by know means am downgrading the importance of obedience. Like James said, be doers of the Word. But no, Grace is not always conditional on obedience. It can cause problems, and depending on the circumstance, yea... It may bring damnation. But Moses disobeyed God and it kept him out of the promise Land. It didn't damn him. Jonah disobeyed God and he spent 3 days "in hell" (in the belly of a whale) but I don't think he was damned. Solomon, Jehu, Uzzah.... They come to mind as well.

As for Noah, I see nothing in the Bible that suggests that it was ever a concern of God or Noah that he may have disobeyed the commission to build the ark. It's seems that it was never even a question in either of their minds. Personally, I believe God picked Noah because He knew it would get done without even a debate. So, it's rather pointless to bring it up.

But I will agree with you that it's important to obey God. Just don't apply that to following the Law, which I believe many secretly try to slip in through Socratic reasoning.

What the faith onlyists are rejecting is that Noah did an obedient work in building the ark and that work did not earn God's grace but was a necessary condition God placed upon receiving His grace in the form of saving Noah's house. The context is undeniable that Noah's obedience was necessary for his house to be saved. No obedience = house not saved/no grace received.

There is therefore an obvious difference between:
--working to earn something
and
--meeting the condition placed upon a free gift.

It would therefore be a strawman argument to argue that obedience is an attempt to earn God's grace.

To address some of your points:

You post "Grace is not always conditional on obedience." I agree. We all, saved and lost, have air to breath by the unconditional grace of God. Yet when it comes to salvation, God's grace has ALWAYS been conditional, both OT and NT. There is not an example of God saving the unbelieving disobedient reprobate who lives in rebellion to God.

You post "But Grace doesn't come by obedience; it comes by faith.". Faith includes obedience for faith is dead, useless without obedience. If Noah had 'faith only' and not built the ark, his faith only would have left him and his house to drown with the wicked in the flood. BY FAITH Noah MOVE with fear PREPARED an ark, obviously his faith included obedient works in doing God's will.

The Bible points out that belief is a work, John 6:27-29, that belief is obedience John 3:36 ASV. The Bible ties faith and works so closely together that faith itself is an obedient work:

Romans 5:1-----------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24-----------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, no alternatives, then faith must be an obedient work. In the context of James 2, the type of work James speaks about that justifies is an obedient work in doing God's will. Since both faith and obedience are necessary to be saved, it is impossible to separate them. Any attempt to remove obedience from faith kills the faith dead.

You post "Grace is not always conditional on obedience." Again, in Romans 6 Paul would reply "God forbid" to such an argument. Romans 6:16 we each are serving either one of two masters, we each are serving either:

1) sin unto death
or
2) obedience unto righteousness

If one is not being obedient to God's will he is serving sin unto death. Therefore obedience to God's will is necessary to keep one from serving sin unto death but instead keep one serving obedience UNTO righteousness.

You point out the names of some men who sinned. Man's obedience to God's will will not be perfect for no accountable man, other than Christ, is perfectly, flawlessly sinless. Yet God has given the Christian a second avenue of forgiveness in repenting. When the Christian does sin, if he repents God will forgive and the Christian will not be lost. Yet for those who remain impenitent about their sins will be lost for God does not forgive the impenitent (Romans 2:4-5 Jonah was a person who repented. After he first rejected God's command to go to Nineveh he was punished. Yet when God approached him the second time about going to Nineveh, Jonah obeyed: "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey." As far as the other men you cited as Solomon, as far as we know from the Bible he would be lost. At the end of his life he turned to live and die in idolatry. If he did not repent of that sin, and the Bible does not say he did, then he would be lost. God 1) does not forgive the impenitent 2) idolatry (unbelief) is a sin God will punish with everlasting condemnation. The jews as Solomon were under the OT law God's chosen people. Yet we find out the majority of them were lost, it was just a remnant that was saved (Romans 9:27). Who was the remnant that was saved? Those that obeyed the gospel, Acts 2:38.

You posted "But I will agree with you that it's important to obey God. Just don't apply that to following the Law". Following the OT law will not save for that law required perfect, flawless law keeping to be justified. Yet following Christ's NT gospel, NT law will save for all it requires is a faithful obedience, not perfect flawless obedience as the OT law, but faithful obedience and it allows for repentance for the Christian when he sins and God forgives.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So, when God said Noah found grace in His eyes, He was only talking about Noah not drowning? Did Noah need grace to be saved just like you and I? And maybe that is the reason Noah was delivered from the flood?

Stranger

Noah found grace in God's eyes due to Noah's obedience. And Noah had to continue to obey God in order to continue to find grace in God's eyes.

Will you argue Noah could have disobeyed and rebelled against God in building the ark yet still found grace in the eyes of God, his house would have still been saved from the flood anway in his rebellion?