The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[reformed1689]

If you agreed with Scripture (James 2:24) you wouldn't adhere to the teaching of faith alone.

If you did anything other than take things out of context you would know that verse actually agrees with faith alone.

 

[Marymog]

If you did anything other than take things out of context you would know that verse actually agrees with faith alone.

Put it in context instead of just disagreeing with no evidence.....Patient Mary

 

[reformed1689]

Put it in context instead of just disagreeing with no evidence.....Patient Mary

Already done this in this same thread (I think it was this thread anyway). Look it up.

 

[Marymog]

Already done this in this same thread (I think it was this thread anyway). Look it up.

I presume you are talking about post 1182? I can only presume that because you are being coy.

In that post you suggested that "true faith is accompanied by evidence of that faith". What is the evidence of that faith David? WORKS!!! Sooooo you can't have one without the other....Just like Scripture says!!!

Without works we don't have true faith. You suggest faith by words is good enough. It is not. We must have works....just like Scripture says. Soooooo your "faith alone" theory does not hold water.

Just to be clear: The phrase “faith alone” does occur one time in the New Testament: James 2:24. That passage clearly states one can not have (true) faith without works.

Not being coy....Mary

 

[reformed1689]

Sooooo you can't have one without the other....Just like Scripture says!!!

The works are not what save you. Those come AFTER faith. You are already saved by grace through faith and that PRODUCES works.

You suggest faith by words is good enough.

Strawman. What I said faith, true faith, is enough and true faith PRODUCES works after it has taken root. So yes, FAITH ALONE saves us.

 

[Marymog]

The works are not what save you. Those come AFTER faith. You are already saved by grace through faith and that PRODUCES works.

Hold on kiddo. Is it grace that saves us or faith?

As a Christian do you do works? If so, WHY?

 

[Marymog]

Strawman. What I said faith, true faith, is enough and true faith PRODUCES works after it has taken root. So yes, FAITH ALONE saves us.

If faith produce works then they are one in the same. Faith without works is dead....just like Scripture says. They are two sides to the same coin. You can't have one without the other is what you appear to be saying?

If faith alone saves us then why do works?

 

[Marymog]

Strawman..

I don't think you know the definition of the straw man argument.

 

[reformed1689]

If faith produce works then they are one in the same.

That is about the dumbest thing I have ever read. God produced man when he created us, does that make us the same as God?

 

[reformed1689]

I don't think you know the definition of the straw man argument.

A strawman is refuting a position by actually refuting something that was not said.

 

[Marymog]

That is about the dumbest thing I have ever read. God produced man when he created us, does that make us the same as God?

YOU WROTE: "faith PRODUCES works" sooooooo it must be the dumbest thing you ever wrote then also.

 

[Marymog]

A strawman is refuting a position by actually refuting something that was not said.

Yup....that's it.....but that is not what is happening here. I QUOTED you sooooo how can it NOT be what you said????

 

[Marymog]

The works are not what save you. Those come AFTER faith. You are already saved by grace through faith and that PRODUCES works.

Strawman. What I said faith, true faith, is enough and true faith PRODUCES works after it has taken root. So yes, FAITH ALONE saves us.

If faith alone saves us then why do works?

 

[reformed1689]

Yup....that's it.....but that is not what is happening here. I QUOTED you sooooo how can it NOT be what you said????

You quoted and then added commentary that I did not state.

 

[reformed1689]

If faith alone saves us then why do works?

We do works BECAUSE of our faith. Let me ask you this, what work did the thief on the cross do to obtain his salvation?

 

[Nondenom40]

If faith alone saves us then why do works?

Eph 2:10; Titus 2:14...to start.

 

[Nondenom40]

We do works BECAUSE of our faith. Let me ask you this, what work did the thief on the cross do to obtain his salvation?

Or this woman...
Luke 7:50
50 And He said to the woman, Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

[Marymog]

We do works BECAUSE of our faith. Let me ask you this, what work did the thief on the cross do to obtain his salvation?

We don't know since scripture doesn't say. It is presumed by biblical scholars that he obtained salvation by faith AND grace.

 

[Marymog]

Eph 2:10; Titus 2:14...to start.

That doesn't cancel out James 2:24

I don't like to cut passages out of the bible like you do.

 

[reformed1689]

We don't know since scripture doesn't say. It is presumed by biblical scholars that he obtained salvation by faith AND grace.

Scripture does say actually. HE DIED. He had no opportunity to do anything. HE DIED. So obviously it was by grace alone through faith alone.