...being justified by grace...

[justbyfaith]

The way in Christ is not an end...but a means. (that's why it is called a way....not a done deal) Can you understand what that is? Do you know what the difference is between a means and an end.

I have met very few modern style believers who understand even that.

Again, see John 5:24.

It says that if we hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him, we shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death into everlasting life. My understanding of life that is everlasting is that it will never come to an end.

 

[justbyfaith]

Episkopos said: ↑
Repentance is never "secured" for all time.
I disagree. See John 5:24.

IF you abide in Christ...big IF...then you have nothing to repent of because there is no sin IN Christ.

But how many people know that level of walk?

Mostly people are just trying to be good. And these need to walk in a constant metanois...repentant attitude. Humility!

I won't disagree with you there, the way you put that.

 

[Episkopos]

You're saying that it is an error that I said that Jesus is God in the flesh?

Jesus said that if you really believe that, you will die in your sins.

The game begins....as in...my dogmatism is better than your dogmatism.

Dogmatic statements don't save you.

The devil knows more about who Jesus is than you do. Why don't you try winning a dogma contest with him? For all the good that does,

 

[justbyfaith]

In Colossians it tells us that we are complete in Him.

If we can obtain that promise, our walk will be much tighter.

 

[justbyfaith]

And in the same context, that in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[Episkopos]

Again, see John 5:24.

It says that if we hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him, we shall not come into condemnation but have passed from death into everlasting life. My understanding of life that is everlasting is that it will never come to an end.

Eternal life is a kind of life. A walk in the presence of God. None of us has a personal eternal life. That life is found only in Christ. It is as we enter into Christ that we walk in the power of His life. In that life is no sin. No one who sins has eternal life.

The bible speaks to us of striving to enter into Christ. That is what Paul was after....because he was wise. But we modern believers are not so wise. We want a never ending life while we are still sinning. THAT is from the flesh...the flesh wanting to survive.

But we are to die to that...we are to let go our desire to be saved. We are to abandon ourselves and our own desires in order to enter into Christ.

So then the major part of the subversion of the gospel is to appeal to the flesh in people with their innate desire to get "saved"...to have the carnal man survive. But Jesus said that he who desires to save his life would lose it....and they who lose their lives for Him would find it. (An idea that is not understood at all today)

But there is only one standard IN Christ. And that is to walk as Jesus walked. Anything else is the flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

In Colossians it tells us that we are complete in Him.

Exactly! Then it all boils down to...entering INTO Him...where He becomes our life and our salvation. We are made perfect IN Him. We walk in His perfected humanity IN Him. IN Him is NO sin.

One can try explaining this over and over...but without real faith people will ALWAYS limit God and His walk into doing something the flesh can already do. This is called iniquity.

 

[Episkopos]

Denying Christ today is not to deny that Jesus came and died for the sins of all men. The devil doesn't deny Christ in this way. So he lets people believe that...and that this is what justifies them. (If that was so then the devil would also be justified in believing that Jesus died for the sins of all men)

Denying Christ means that we deny the power of Christ over sin. That we can be in Him and still walk in the power of the flesh...in the power that makes us sin. Having a form of godliness but denying the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead.

Having a dogmatic belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead is good...but doesn't provide the power of that resurrection. It is by walking in that power that faith is perfected and made to actually function. Jesus is the author and finisher of THAT kind of faith.

Of course there is also a human faith. But only God decides if that faith justifies a person. God is looking for good works in these. And these cannot claim righteousness for themselves. In His sight shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Waiting on him]

Already accomplished for some. For others, who have not yet received Christ, it has not been accomplished; and God only knows if it ever will be.

It continues to be accomplished for those who walk as regenerated and renewed saints.

So are you saying grace is performance based?

 

[marks]

There's a lot more to it than that. Repentance is never "secured" for all time. We need to learn humility...a new humility to add to the new growth. This is real life and anything is possible. We are just human after all.

You always want to add to what Jesus did, and that's a huge mistake.

We are just human, and coming to understand what we actually are is humilty. Humility is not something you learn, it's something you realize. If you understand the importance of the distinction.

And yet we are no longer "just human". We who are born again, if you are born again, we are now recreated sharing God's Own nature, and that's anything But "Just human".

Therefore, once repentance is secure, all one need do in order to keep bearing the right kind of fruit is to keep walking in the same direction; and not turn back around towards sin.

Repentance - metanoia - is the exchange of the mind of the flesh for the mind of Christ, and with that new mind we learn to live a new life, Christ's life through us.

I say learn, not that we learn to live that life, His life comes through us, as we learn to allow Him to do this, by learning to trust in His redemption of us, purchasing us to Himself.

As we come to understand that we are the children of God . . . created, then recreated to be in love with Him, as He loves us, we will give ourselves more and more into that most abundant and joy filled life.

They who claim salvation at the beginning are in great danger of not bearing the right kind of fruit...of "burying their talent"...or their potential to be like Christ in the world.

Give your warnings, they are suitable for the unsaved. Each needs to make their calling and election certain.

We have passed from death into life. We are translated from the kingdom of darkness . . . into the kingdom of the Beloved. We are new creations. We are in Christ. Justified in Him. Righteous in Him. Holy in Him. Not theories, not metaphors. Facts.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Justification is a purely divine act of God's grace towards those who do not deserve it. And it is based purely upon Christ and His finished work of redemption, not on works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy. Justification and imputed righteousness are inseparable, and the righteousness of Christ is imputed to those who believe on Him. And that is why it is called "Amazing Grace".

Amen!

 

[marks]

So people will say..."in Christ we don't reap what we sow"...but that isn't true.

Actually, that is true, to the extent that all by sinning have sown death, yet in Christ, we will reap life.

And that's the glorious truth of the Gospel, what makes it such good news. Not that this ticks your box so that then if you are good enough you can enter the kingdom, no, in Christ, you have entered.

Much love!

 

[marks]

However, the shedding abroad of His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5) once we became Christians makes us worthy to enter the kingdom (see Revelation 3:4). It is not that we enter into the kingdom because we are righteous; but that we are righteous because we have entered into the kingdom.

It sure seems to always come down to this.

The one believes we enter in the righteousness of Christ, and the other believes they enter in their own righteousness.

But anyone trying to gain their own righteousness so they can enter the kingdom, or remain in the kingdom, is fallen from Grace, trying to do this on their own steam. God is not empowering our flesh to become pleasing to Him, rather, He has created us a new creation that IS pleasing to Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you have made it very easy for yourself by inventing a false criteria in order to justify yourself for your belief in that formula.
We are actually to put our faith IN Christ...not just what He did.

I wonder if others notice these things . . .

Enoch111 said: ↑

That's a given. Sinners can only be justified by grace through faith when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption.

 

[marks]

Jesus had His own righteousness.

True, and do you believe that by your own righteousness you will be saved?

 

[marks]

The game begins....as in...my dogmatism is better than your dogmatism.

Dogmatic statements don't save you.

So then . . . do you in fact then not believe that Jesus is God incarnate?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Exactly! Then it all boils down to...entering INTO Him...where He becomes our life and our salvation. We are made perfect IN Him. We walk in His perfected humanity IN Him. IN Him is NO sin.

One can try explaining this over and over...but without real faith people will ALWAYS limit God and His walk into doing something the flesh can already do. This is called iniquity.

Yes, but even faith has now become just believing He died and you will live forever. According to the leaven, that's it. But that is NOT it. I've met many people who have zero faith about anything else He said!

 

[friend of]

Having a dogmatic belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead is good...but doesn't provide the power of that resurrection

John 5:24 disagrees

 

[Episkopos]

John 5:24 disagrees

Do you know what a dogmatic belief entails?

 

[friend of]

I'm just going by what scripture plainly states.