Waiting on him
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I agree, had to the volume of the book (Old Testament) is written of Him.
No one can see the Kingdom of God unless...
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Well, declare it then, ...you keep questioning me on why I have reservations about people's dreams & visions. I told you that I believe in dreams & visions, just not necessarily the ones that I've heard so far on this site.
I believe that Episkopos agreed with that, so why are you continuously questioning my judgement on this matter?
Just say, 'Yes DNB, you have a point, you don't discredit them all, you just wait until you see the wisdom and glory of God behind it. Good for you!'
bbyrd009
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ha, i like that, "sacrificial institution"
I desire mercy, not sacrifice
how so?
the sycophants of Jesus, who did not comply when offered take, eat, drink btw. The um hangers-on? so ya, guess we gotta back up to here, sorry
which dont get me wrong i agree, SiT w/o interpretation and all that; however
my point was kinda that Jesus seems to have deliberately pitched what He knew could only be heard as sacrilege to most Jews who could not hear
i guess
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bbyrd009
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i wouldnt write that in stone just yet k bro
Matthew 25:46 Lexicon: "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
noun
noun: aeon
- an indefinite and very long period of time, often a period exaggerated for humorous or rhetorical effect.
"he reached the crag eons before I arrived"- ASTRONOMY•GEOLOGY
a unit of time equal to a billion years. - GEOLOGY
a major division of geological time, subdivided into eras.
"the Precambrian eon"
- ASTRONOMY•GEOLOGY
bbyrd009
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forever means eternal to ppl who are hoping to become immortal maybe, yeh
can anything good come from Nazareth?
i have only just recently discovered that i have virtually no idea what i am talking about most of the time lol
yall both know about meet john doe right, and what "Jesus of Nazareth" would have been heard like
can anything good come from Nazareth?
bbyrd009
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that ones a toughie, yeh
its strictly from a diff pov, and really not meant to be heard imo by someone who believes in a sacrificial Jesus? Prolly not a denial of Christ tho
bbyrd009
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Yes, I think that I see what you mean, by Jesus saying 'eat my flesh and drink my blood', he knew that only those with 'ears to hear' would understand the message?
ScottA
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All three (yesterday, today, and forever) always "apply" when it comes to God. It is your explanation of "currently" and of "time" that does not properly define eternity. Your explanation and understanding, is as you said: "Forever in that context does not meant eternal." Which is simply ludicrous.
Perhaps a dictionary would help:
e·ter·nal
/əˈtərn(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
- lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
It does not say that...that is just you talking, and adding your own interpretation to the word of God. Sorry, that is not allowed.
I know it is your own...that is what I said.
But matters of God are not open to one's own discretion. That's the problem here.
As for me, it is the Spirit which discerns.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Like many things, even a dictionary or lexicon, they are only so good.
In other words, if you use the exaggeration of terms against that word being exaggerated, it has served no purpose because there is a lack of understanding. But if one understands that exaggeration words from God always fall short of the reality of the topic at hand, then one would never lean his understanding in that slighted direction, but would know that God has exaggerated on purpose...like talking baby talk to children--because that is the correct context. That is what we are. Because of our limitations, limited words were used to explain things beyond the human mind.
Unfortunately, those who think they are smarter than children, are not actually smart enough to see it that way, or to understand.
But thanks for the opportunity to elaborate and be perfectly clear.
Scott, you're becoming very difficult, ...eternal includes forever, but forever does not include eternal.
Do you understand the difference, not only in meaning, but especially in context? As in, the word used in your quote was forever, not eternal, you argued from the meaning of the word eternal.
I showed the limitations of forever, i.e. for the unsaved will be dead forever, and saved will live forever. In this context, the usage of the word forever doesn't have the connotation of eternal.
Why in the world was this explanation necessary? You clearly have a bias, that is not allowing you to be objective.
...one thing that I've always learned, those who claim to speak with the authority of the Holy Spirit, are always the worst exegetes.
Scott, you are verging on qualifying for this stigma!
...or, out of interests sake, are you willing to affirm that you're correct in all your interpretations because you claim that 'As for me, it is the Spirit which discerns'? ...i'm sure that you won't answer this, or at least, in a straight-forward manner.
Use those wits my friend, but if you depend only on them for your final conclusion may you not find yourself in trouble with God? God knows exactly what He has provided each of us and expects us to use that provision for His glory. Consider what His glory is! Atheists have used only their wits as well. What is the difference between you and them? Consider your answer carefully!
The Way a person comes to higher place is by taking always the lowest place. Then it is God that does any lifting. Over the years I lifted myself a lot and got into a lot of trouble. As I humbled myself and was finally sitting beside the pastor they let go on him, the pastor that is. I could have conceded their victory, gone with them and retained a position... but to do so I would have lost out with God. That was over a year ago and in spite of the years I spent in that place waiting on God, He said to give it all up, to surrender and I did. Back down to the very lowest room, all alone perhaps often as men see it, but always with God.
"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11
Has God lifted me up? Oh yes! Never in all of my years, [and some of them I thought were good ones], have I found such high places in God! Bragging? No, I would have not told this much now but you were pressing people here to let up and travel along the ways that you have decided through your experience in the flesh and through the conclusions obtained through your studies and logic. God pressed me to open my mouth.
Give God any glory for what I said right and lay on me any blame for any errors found in my words.
Again...
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Prov 14:12
"And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt 4:19
"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22
Who are the dead?
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17
"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Gen 3:6
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:53-56
No matter what others may say, [believe me if you will], ultimately the Life is not in the bread made from grain nor in the drink made from grapes. Even some who really are eating and drinking of Him still do not understand this!
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I am glad to hear something positive from you. Be more careful about speaking the negative... for your own sake.
Remember that the negative words you speak about anyone else's testimony without a clear direction from God to open your mouth your words may be the basis for your own negative judgment. We are judged based on our own ways without regard to whether the other guy's words spoken are right or not. God does always know right or wrong of every issue, and He also knows when we do not. Right or wrong on an issue, belief or doctrine God is looking to see how merciful and charitable we are... especially toward those with whom we disagree.
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John said it. I believe it. Many verses support John. I don't expect you to take me seriously. But I didn't make it up from my mind. I just believe John And He actually walked with Jesus when He took on flesh.
Can the "word" be made flesh again? I mean spiritual flesh, mind you, what the spiritual body is made of. Sown in corruption, raised to be incorruptible?
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Back to John now:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
It seems to me verse 13 is connected with verses 12 and 13. It seems to me too that Jesus "heard" every word of the Father and made it true in himself. He certainly take the "words" of Satan too seriously. Thus he told Satan:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
It would be strange, wouldn't it, to read "every word of God" to mean "Jesus" in that verse? "That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Jesus that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." It would also be strange to think the "mouth of God" was a separate person, wouldn't it? So what could John 1:1 mean?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
First notice "time" is mentioned. God is eternal. He created the universe out of nothing without speaking. The idea of "the Word" was with Him, and part of Him. When God spoke, things were made. Things were changed in the world.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
God's Word returns to Him after accomplishing its purpose. There will come a time when all things have been accomplished.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Thus it is also written, of events in time:
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Back to John now:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
It seems to me verse 13 is connected with verses 12 and 13. It seems to me too that Jesus "heard" every word of the Father and made it true in himself. He certainly take the "words" of Satan too seriously. Thus he told Satan:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
It would be strange, wouldn't it, to read "every word of God" to mean "Jesus" in that verse? "That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Jesus that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." It would also be strange to think the "mouth of God" was a separate person, wouldn't it? So what could John 1:1 mean?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
First notice "time" is mentioned. God is eternal. He created the universe out of nothing without speaking. The idea of "the Word" was with Him, and part of Him. When God spoke, things were made. Things were changed in the world.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
God's Word returns to Him after accomplishing its purpose. There will come a time when all things have been accomplished.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Thus it is also written, of events in time:
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Brother I know that long ago when I began reducing the number of my posts this was without a doubt a major part of the reason.
Do you know how many times after having read through a thread once and sometimes twice [sometimes very long threads] and then having written a lengthy response, I then purposely deleted it before transmitting it? In addition to those, there are also the ones where I was about to transmit a lengthy post I had written and inadvertently [was it really an accident?] I touched the wrong button and erased it instead. When we are working, oh so hard, to follow the lead of the Spirit, our selfish, prideful old man is still on the loose in us. Fortunately God has not really left the building! Sometimes He lets us stick our own foot in our own mouth to teach us we aren't as 'good' as we may think we are. But... sometimes He is merciful and helps us out in spite of our ignorance and/or stupidity.
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No one is denying the salvific works of Christ. But, I profoundly deny the implausible nonsense about him. In other words, his alleged eternality is not requisite for salvation, ...it actually denies it. For, one cannot even find such a phrase in scripture, especially when Paul expounds on the principle of the atonement i.e. man for man.
I use only my wits just like the atheists, the difference is, because of my belief in Christ, God willing, he may enlighten me depending on the level of my faith and humility. But, i do not profess that I am entitled to his intervention simply due to my currently redeemed status, like everyone else believes.
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