The Book of Revelation, Understood?

[marks]

Now this is what a GOOD christian in Christ Jesus is about.

A good Christian! In Christ, all Christians are good!

if you don't mind, lets table this "of" and "in" for a few,

I think this is the best way. Not so much to form conclusions about why it's this way, just so that we can know the way it is. The rest comes in time.

A chart like this one can be helpful . . .

Much love!

 

[101G]

do you have a link to this chart? the letter a little hard to read.

Thanks.

PICJAG.

 

[Windmillcharge]

That is the first step to wandering off into the wilderness. But, I guess there is no stopping anyone bound and determined to make a crystal ball out of prophesy.

Agreed, I' m happy to study revelation at home or as part of a home study group etc but not on line. It always brings the odd balls out.

 

[marks]

2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Seven messengers addressed in seven churches, each with it's unique content, why? Why would Jesus speak so differently to them, and what does that mean to us today?

So many people answer this question in so many ways. So many questions about this vision that people answer so differently, no wonder so many people are afraid of it.

Here's something I think of.

In 1 John, the Apostle writes,

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.

I suggest that the little children who read the next part, read it with this in mind: Your sins are forgiven you for His Name's sake.

I suggest the fathers read it keeping in mind that they have known Him that is from the beginning. And the young men should read keeping in mind that they have overcome the wicked.

13b I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Fathers should read was he just wrote remembering these things, as so forth.

Here, remember as I speak to you, as I tell you these things, that it's Me that is holding you in My hand, and I walk in your midst.

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Your works, and your toil, and your endurance . . .

You can't stand the false! You test them, and reject them, and this is good! You endure, and you carry on, For My Name's sake you labor and toil and haven't faltered . . . but.

It's not love.

I'm holding onto you, but you are not holding onto Me.

Martha!

 

[marks]

do you have a link to this chart? the letter a little hard to read.

Thanks.

PICJAG.

That was from pinterest, having a hard time finding a better copy, maybe this one?

Seven churches of Revelation - Summary tables

 

[marks]

do you have a link to this chart? the letter a little hard to read.

Thanks.

PICJAG.

It's a great exercise to create one. Just sayin . . .

 

[marks]

It always brings the odd balls out.

Oh thanks!!

 

[101G]

That was from pinterest, having a hard time finding a better copy, maybe this one?

Seven churches of Revelation - Summary tables

thanks. I'll be looking over this, after Lunch.

PICJAG

 

[marks]

Jesus said Mary's part was better.

Two things Jesus told us to do, trust Him, and love each other.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Forget about all these works and labors and toils, get rid of it all! It's all good, but without love, you might as well be hammering rocks.

What were the first works?

Go back to the beginning, do what you did at the start. Or!

I will come to you quickly. Said He Who had just said He walks in their midst? He holds the stars in His hand, He walks in our midst, He is not absent, but always here, but yet He will come to act, unless they . . . metanoia . . . repent . . . take on a new mind.

Else the church will go away. The ministry will be ended. The lamp will be removed from it's place. Unless it's love, it's better to not be.

Question . . .

Is it at all possible to be serving God's will if not in genuine love?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Seven messengers addressed in seven churches, each with it's unique content, why? Why would Jesus speak so differently to them, and what does that mean to us today?

1. The messengers were actual angels at the time of writing. Angels are prominent in this book.
2. Each church is unique, therefore all the letters are different.
3. There are many common threads in those messages.
4. All those messages are completely relevant for all churches today.

A. CHRIST IDENTIFIES HIMSELF IN A SPECIFIC WAY
B. CHRIST GIVES HIS ASSESSMENT OF THE CHURCH
C. CHRIST RECOGNIZES WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE
D. CHRIST EXPOSES WHAT IS UNACCEPTABLE
E. CHRIST EXHORTS REPENTANCE
F. CHRIST WARNS ABOUT FAILURE TO REPENT
G. CHRIST OFFERS A PROMISE TO THE OVERCOMERS
H. CHRIST SAYS THAT THOSE WHO HAVE SPIRITUAL EARS WILL HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY


All the churches today -- particularly evangelical churches -- need to hear these messages from someone who comes from outside. Ideally an angel appearing as a man, or a man willing to be rejected by the church after exposing all their sins and failures.

 

[marks]

1. The messengers were actual angels at the time of writing. Angels are prominent in this book.

Hi Enoch,

You bring up a great point I was greatly remiss on!

These letters were addressed to the messengers.

To the angel of the church of Ephesus . . . I know your works, and your labor, and your patience, these are all singular, not plural.

. . . you (singular) have left your first love.

The first application to the letter is to the messenger. I think this argues against the messenger being a celestial being. Does a Holy Angel leave his first love, and is called to repent? I don't think so.

God truly blessed me in bringing me into a church with a pastor who truly loves. He loves God, and he loves us, and I've grown so much in love for being in his care!

We need to have church leaders who love, who are known for their love for others.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Here is another example . . .

In the closing, what is promised to the overcomer:

Ephesus - To him that overcometh will I give
Smyrna - He that overcometh shall not be
Pergamos - To him that overcometh will I give
Thyatira - to him will I give
Sardis - He that overcometh, the same shall be
Philedelphia - Him that overcometh will I make
Laodicea - To him that overcometh will I grant (same word as "give")

Ephesus, Pergamos, Thyatira, Laodicea, "will I give". Remainder are different.

Much love!

Just my opinion, there’s only one overcomer.

 

[marks]

Just my opinion, there’s only one overcomer.

Hi Waiting,

How do you mean?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi Waiting,

How do you mean?

Much love!

If I’m being honest with myself I overcome rarely. Jesus tells us to not fear because He’s overcame the world, He overcomes within, I have no power to claim I’ve overcome anything.

 

[marks]

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Who are the Nicolaitanes? Followers of Nicolas? The 'nico-laity' sorts? That is, those who would rule over others? Similar to Balaam, mixing idolatry with worship?

Whoever this is, Jesus hates them, the Ephesians did, and we should also.

These are not totally off the rails, only that they've become focused on the negative, We must . . . We can't . . . We won't . . . Things like that.

Whom Jesus makes free is free indeed! Freedom is found in trust and in love.

Remove love, all becomes drudgery. Restore love, and all is wonder. @bbyrd009

Being made conformable to His death likewise conforms us to His life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If I’m being honest with myself I overcome rarely.

If that's true, why do you suppose it is?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If I’m being honest with myself I overcome rarely. Jesus tells us to not fear because He’s overcame the world, He overcomes within, I have no power to claim I’ve overcome anything.

Let me ask you . . . what does it mean to overcome?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Yes. John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

All you said about what comes with it...maybe it is His will.

Even so, let it all be according to His will. I believe that there in the garden of Gethsemene [Matt 26:38-45], Jesus overcame the very last obstacle as a man of flesh subject to the temptations of the flesh. This was prior to his physical suffering and death. It is, I believe, the reason why Jesus was able to say these words when talking/praying to His Father:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

Jesus had been "in" the world of temptation like every one of us [Heb 4:15], but in Gethsemene, he overcame the very last place of temptation and was able to say, "I am no more in the world". He was still in flesh; he was still on planet Earth, but he was no longer tempted. He was ready to walk up Calvary Hill and lay down to allow them to kill his body. So then he did it. He suffered the pain and anguish but he was not tempted to avoid the cross or to walk some other pathway.

Remember this prayer?

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Matt 6:10 [Consider here where earth and where heaven are.]

I see it as a prayer asking for our will, the will of the man of flesh to be equal to the will of our new man, the man of heaven. Jesus won the very last battle for complete control over his flesh and desires of his flesh. We as per James are fighting the same battles:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1

If any of us should win our last battle in ourself, then we like Jesus would no long be in the world, our own little world, of temptations... even though we still walked on planet Earth awaiting the end of our course here!

hope so Matthew 16:24-25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Countless passages of laying down your life. But does it always have to be physically killed? 1 Corinthians 13:3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Galatians 5:24-26 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. —John 6:51 the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 13:37-38 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. [38] Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

a lot you said in your previous post about power given... “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.” I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

—John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

So Peter was unable to do what he really did want to be able to do. When it came right down to it he was still afraid of what men could do to him.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28

Peter did not yet have the power of God in him when he denied Jesus, but come that day of Pentecost [Acts 2]he received the power when he received the Spirit. So did we, which is why we really need to take Apostle Paul's words to heart:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

So then what is this verse saying to us?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

 

[marks]

@amadeus ,

Do you not believe our flesh is corrupted, while Jesus' flesh was not?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

If that's true, why do you suppose it is?

Much love!

Because I’m weak.