The Book of Revelation, Understood?

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Nancy

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Try this one: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/f8/77/d4f877846eb2620c5f7c045f7a48ec24.png
Hit "Ctrl" and the "plus" sign several times after you open it. (Hit it more if you need to in order to get it as large as you want, and you can "scroll" at the bottom and at the right side to see all of it.)
d4f877846eb2620c5f7c045f7a48ec24.png

Cool and easy to read chart Willie. Do you see these 7 Church's as Church "ages"? I kind of do because of the Laodicean's being so luke warm...and that sure does seem to be prevalent in today's Church.
 
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marks

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Lots of things, peoples aggression towards me etc,,
I would say one thing only makes you weak, and that is unbelief. Consider the hostility of the wicked against Jesus. We haven't had to face That.

He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world, do you believe that to be true?
 

Willie T

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Cool and easy to read chart Willie. Do you see these 7 Church's as Church "ages"? I kind of do because of the Laodicean's being so luke warm...and that sure does seem to be prevalent in today's Church.
I definitely DO NOT believe in that "Church Age" stuff. To me, that is "Defeatist Theology." (We might as well give up, and do nothing... because the Bible lied about Satan. He was not defeated by Christ at Calvary, and he is so strong and powerful that not a bit of the Holy Spirit working through man can even phase him.")

And the "Lukewarm" stuff is totally misunderstood, in my opinion.
 
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marks

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I hope you guys aren't going to get into all the "Church Ages" stuff from Darby's brand of Dispensationalism. That theory pretty much ruins the main purpose of our Lord Jesus giving those 7 Messages.

All 7 Messages are still in effect today for all... Churches. The believer should be able to compare those 7 Messages to their particular Church and discover what kind of Church they are in.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 of the Churches in Asia (Minor). Can you understand who those represent, and what understanding they had in common which the other five Churches didn't have?
I'm not too up on Darby, but I think these letters have many layers of meaning in them.

I think they address us as individuals, and in our churches, both then and now, and that they also display "the life-cycle" of churches.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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Jesus was born a man with corruptible flesh as were we.
What the Bible says is that Jesus of Nazareth was a Man (fully human), hence called the Son of Man. He had a human body, but He did not have the sin nature which all human beings have. Instead He was fully God. So when you say *corruptible flesh* that is not accurate. Indeed His body was NOT subject to corruption, and He rose again on the third day in a body which could ascend to Heaven at will and also descend to earth.

In this context we need to see what is stated in Psalm 16 and reiterated in Acts 2.

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory [tongue] rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in [Sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in
[Hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 
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Waiting on him

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I would say one thing only makes you weak, and that is unbelief. Consider the hostility of the wicked against Jesus. We haven't had to face That.

He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world, do you believe that to be true?
That’s what I’m trying to say He overcomes not me
 
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Davy

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I'm not too up on Darby, but I think these letters have many layers of meaning in them.

I think they address us as individuals, and in our churches, both then and now, and that they also display "the life-cycle" of churches.

Much love!

Believe it or not, they are to serve as 'patterns' for the various Churches that exist from John's day all the way up to our Lord Jesus' return.

Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

KJV

The seven candlesticks in Heaven that John saw represent the seven Churches. In Revelation 2 with Christ's Message to the Church at Ephesus, He warned them about removing their candlestick if they didn't repent.

That means the seven candlesticks represent seven patterns in the Heavenly. Each pattern will fit certain Churches today.

And like I said before, only TWO of those Churches our Lord Jesus had NO rebuke for.

Those two represent His elect that will not, and cannot, be deceived in the end. And they both had a certain understanding common to each other that the other five Churches did not have. Most likely the other five not having that understanding is what caused their problems that Jesus rebuked them for.
 

marks

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What the Bible says is that Jesus of Nazareth was a Man (fully human), hence called the Son of Man. He had a human body, but He did not have the sin nature which all human beings have. Instead He was fully God. So when you say *corruptible flesh* that is not accurate. Indeed His body was NOT subject to corruption, and He rose again on the third day in a body which could ascend to Heaven at will and also descend to earth.

In this context we need to see what is stated in Psalm 16 and reiterated in Acts 2.

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory [tongue] rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in [Sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in
[Hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
I think what @amadeus means is that were Jesus to have sinned, that sin would have corrupted His flesh in the same manner that Adam's was corrupted.
 

marks

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Study it. Not really that difficult to see it. To one of them He mentions the key of David to them. Do you know what that is?
Nevermind then. I was interested in what you saw.
 

101G

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I hope you guys aren't going to get into all the "Church Ages" stuff from Darby's brand of Dispensationalism. That theory pretty much ruins the main purpose of our Lord Jesus giving those 7 Messages.

All 7 Messages are still in effect today for all... Churches. The believer should be able to compare those 7 Messages to their particular Church and discover what kind of Church they are in.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 of the Churches in Asia (Minor). Can you understand who those represent, and what understanding they had in common which the other five Churches didn't have?
yes we're on the trail, why not Join us and let us partake of your knowledge that the Lord has given unto you and share it with the rest of us.

thanks in advance.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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And like I said before, only TWO of those Churches our Lord Jesus had NO rebuke for.

Those two represent His elect that will not, and cannot, be deceived in the end. And they both had a certain understanding common to each other that the other five Churches did not have. Most likely the other five not having that understanding is what caused their problems that Jesus rebuked them for.
I was just looking at your post. but do not God have elect not "only" in those two churches only, or are you using just these two churches to identify all the elect everywhere?

PICJAG.
 
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amadeus

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Odd you ask that, I was thinking on this earlier this morning, He seemed to prefer John over the others?
I don't believe that. God always had a plan which included the time that Jesus spent here as a man. When we read the Book, the Bible that is, we do, each of us, have biases according to where we are. Our biases affect our outlook, unless we have managed already to overcome even those biases.
 
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amadeus

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Of course God states emphatically that He is NOT a respector of persons.

Oh, and I was meaning that we got a new chance like Adam had.

But the very fact that God is not a respecter or persons tells me that it's not going to be about whether you do good works and I don't, God forbid!

Romans teaches us that justification is by faith for the very reason that it can be to everyone, not just certain ones.

Much love!
The only way any man is going end up on the Lord's side is by submitting himself to God's will. It was never about you or me winning a prize in a contest between our skills and experiences. Rather, the winners will be those who surrender to Him and allow Him to lead the way all the way to the finish line. The choice is to surrender to God or not. If we do not, we will be among the goats. The surrendering is not a one time thing. It something that is to be done until God in us has overcome every obstacle standing between us and Him. If we don't surrender, it won't happen.

If we do the right works it will be because we allowed Him to lead us. God never loses battles. Men do, men who lead when they should be following.
 
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amadeus

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What the Bible says is that Jesus of Nazareth was a Man (fully human), hence called the Son of Man. He had a human body, but He did not have the sin nature which all human beings have. Instead He was fully God. So when you say *corruptible flesh* that is not accurate. Indeed His body was NOT subject to corruption, and He rose again on the third day in a body which could ascend to Heaven at will and also descend to earth.

In this context we need to see what is stated in Psalm 16 and reiterated in Acts 2.

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory [tongue] rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in [Sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in
[Hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
If his flesh were not corruptible he would not have been tempted. He would have had nothing to overcome. He did overcome the world.

I won't debate this issue with you. I know that I cannot convince anyone of anything unless God chooses to use me for that purpose. Of course the same thing holds true for you and each other person here. God alone gives any increase!
 

Jay Ross

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Now unto the seven letters of the seven Churches, Chapter 2 & 3, but before we start, we would like to open with something that has intrested me for years. it could be nothing, but years ago when studing Revelation this which we about to state just stayed in my spirit. it's about the opeaning of each of the 7 letters to the churches. here it is, see if you spot what I have spotted, as said, it could be nothing. and if significant hopefully we can discuss it. I have color coded what to spot.

Revelation 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks”;

Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive”.

Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges

Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass

Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth”.

Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

what I have color coded is the "first" and the "Last" churches are "of" the location, while the rest are "in" these locations. but what's intresting is this, the churches "of" These locations are the "First" and the "Last" churches addressed. and the Lord jesus is the "First" and the "Last" himself. now as said, if this is significant in anyway I have not yet seen it. maybe someone else has. but this nothing to go after, if one choses not to. but it stuck in my spirit as intresting. so if there are some who are intrested, this is something to chew on before we look at the seven letters.

What you are highlighting are the quirks of our English translation scholars. If you had compared all of the Greek words that had been translated as either in or of you would have made the discovery that the same Greek word has been translated either way.

Attached is a PDF file which highlights this for your information. Ignoring "Kai" at the beginning of the 2-7 church referenced verses, you will see that the next ten words in the respective verses are the same except for the highlighted light green colum between the thickened lines which tells us the place names for the respective seven churches mention in this section of the Book of Revelation.

As @Willie T likes to point out, but using my own words, we can chase rabbits down rabbit holes and end up lost in the discussion or simply bamboozled by our over active minds.

Shalom
 

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