The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[BreadOfLife]

They fought back.
Also, notice Rome being completely wiped out by God in the passage of Rev 18.
Question, why does God wipe it out to be uninhabited for the entire 1000 years?

Henry VIII was "fighting back" when he murdered 72,000 Catholics in England?
You're not very bright, are you . . .

 

[Truther]

Immersion isn't preached in the Bible.
You have YET to show me a Verse . . .

The word in the Greek implies immerse.
However, if you want, then use a mister from Home Depot for a dollar to baptize babies.
Beats going to a river and getting wet like the Apostles and John the Baptist did, huh)

 

[Truther]

Henry VIII was "fighting back" when he murdered 72,000 Catholics in England?
You're not very bright, are you . . .

The wars began per Martin Luther.
The RCC tried to snuff him and the reformers out.
They should have sought a peaceful solution, huh?

 

[Truther]

They fought back.
Also, notice Rome being completely wiped out by God in the passage of Rev 18.
Question, why does God wipe it out to be uninhabited for the entire 1000 years?

Deal with the latter part(RCC wiped out by God)

 

[BreadOfLife]

The word in the Greek implies immerse.
However, if you want, then use a mister from Home Depot for a dollar to baptize babies.
Beats going to a river and getting wet like the Apostles and John the Baptist did, huh)

In Acts 2, about 3000 people were Baptized in Jerusalem, where there is NO river.
How do you suppose they were Baptized, Einstein?

 

[Truther]

In Acts 2, about 3000 people were Baptized in Jerusalem, where there is NO river.
How do you suppose they were Baptized, Einstein?

The way John the Baptist did it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The wars began per Martin Luther.
The RCC tried to snuff him and the reformers out.
They should have sought a peaceful solution, huh?

You are historically bankrupt.

The English Reformation had NOTHING to do with Luther. It was about Henry VIIi not being able to get a divorce.

Are you really this dense??

 

[BreadOfLife]

The way John the Baptist did it.

How was that??

 

[BreadOfLife]

The way John the Baptist did it.

How was that??

Hello??? Is this thing on??

How did they Baptize like John the Baptist in Jerusalem where there was NO RIVER??

 

[user]

Yup, and it's not for YOU to say who was Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It's for GOD alone.

Ummm, actually we (you, me, everyone) knows...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

This is Apostolic TRUTH, which not everyone today will recieve ... they did the very same thing back then too (I guess some things do not change)...

Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

But for those today, who Do receive, get the same thing which they received back then too...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



Here is another example...

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

One may receive the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism, this is why Peter "commanded" them to be baptized, because this is part of the "Born Again" process (born of water and spirit).

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God Bless!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ummm, actually we (you, me, everyone) knows...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

This is Apostolic TRUTH, which not everyone today will recieve ... they did the very same thing back then too (I guess some things do not change)...

Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

But for those today, who Do receive, get the same thing which they received back then too...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



Here is another example...

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

One may receive the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism, this is why Peter "commanded" them to be baptized, because this is part of the "Born Again" process (born of water and spirit).

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God Bless!

WRONG – and I would submit the following to you as proof:

1 Cor. 12:28-31
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
Are ALL apostles? Are ALL prophets? Are ALL all teachers? Do ALL work mighty deeds?
Do ALL have gifts of healing? Do ALL speak in tongues? Do ALL interpret?
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts.

NOT everybody will speak in tongues - and those who insist that this is THE proof of the Holy Spirit don’t know their Bible. We ALL have different roles and different gifts in the Body of Christ. Some are outwardly evident – and some aren’t.

 

[user]

WRONG – and I would submit the following to you as proof:

1 Cor. 12:28-31
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
Are ALL apostles? Are ALL prophets? Are ALL all teachers? Do ALL work mighty deeds?
Do ALL have gifts of healing? Do ALL speak in tongues? Do ALL interpret?
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts.

NOT everybody will speak in tongues - and those who insist that this is THE proof of the Holy Spirit don’t know their Bible. We ALL have different roles and different gifts in the Body of Christ. Some are outwardly evident – and some aren’t.

Jesus told Nicodemus about the absolute necessity of being born again in order to enter the Kingdom of God, in John Chapter 3. And He also said something VERY profound, but very often overlooked ..

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Here, Jesus reveals the parallel between the natural realm and the Spiritual Realm, by using the wind as an analogy. In the parallel, Jesus declares that just as there is a “sound” associated with the wind, there is a “sound” associated with EVERYONE who is born of the Spirit.


When a woman is in the hospital birthing room the baby is born and begins to cry, and we know there is movement, there is sound, there is life.

After repentance, we are baptized in Jesus name, and filled with the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, just as it is with the New Testament Church in Acts. By the sound, we know there is movement, there is LIFE, a baby in the church womb is just birthed forth, and is now Born Again, born of Spirit! The Spiritual parallel is, when we hear the gospel and it is mixed with faith, we become a seed in the spiritual church womb. When we come forth, we are Born Again (Born of Spirit), we are speaking in tongues crying Abba Father as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance.

Unfortunately however, many mistake that initial "spark of life", from entering into the spiritual womb, for the complete infilling of the Holy Ghost. Many grow up in the womb, live out their spiritual life in the womb, and die in the womb, never really being Born Again the Bible way. Many are so misinformed about the New Birth that they confuse (or mistake) the experience of the convicting power of the Holy Ghost (which leads them to genuine contriteness and repentance), with that of actually being born again. And, as a result, the new birth may never really occur, especially in Churches that do NOT preach the Apostles One God Monotheistic Doctrine.


Now having the groundwork, we can advance to the gift of tongues as mentioned in 1Corinthians, with this in mind...


There are actually THREE different operations of Speaking in Tongues in a fully functional Church.


PURPOSE # 1 The initial evidence of having received the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", which can be interpreted for the edification of others.


John Chapter Three (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


According to Jesus in Verse 8 (above) just as there is a "sound" associated (or present) with the wind, likewise, there is a "sound" associated (present) when EVERYONE is born of the Spirit.


My question is, What is the SOUND to which Jesus referred?


The preponderance of Scriptural evidence that is found written verbatim upon the pages of the Holy Bible of people in the New Testament Church proves to be "Speaking in Tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance." By the way, in the settings where it does NOT say one way or the other whether or not they spoke in Tongues should NOT be used to insist they did NOT. Instead, it just doesn't say. I've never had anyone to present Scripture that says someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT speak in Tongues. However, since Tongues has become a hot topic for many, both pro and con, many are falling into the trap of adding to or taking from God's Word, depending on how you look at it.


PURPOSE # 2 Used in one's intercessory Prayer, as well as in their personal and private worship, which edifies the individual, but is NOT understood by anyone or interpreted for the edification of anyone else.


1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


PURPOSE # 3 Can be interpreted for the edification of an entire congregation.


1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


This Chapter in 1 Corinthians is mishandled by lots of people on both sides of the issue of Tongues. For example, where we read to keep (or maintain) silence in a church setting, this doesn't mean a woman can't utter a word or sing a hymn, nor does it mean one is prohibited from praying in Tongues. The sign in a Public Library that says to keep quiet, means that. It doesn't mean nobody can utter a single syllable. Just keep quiet. Don't disturb others. Simple! One of the ways most mother's with small children help keep (maintain) silence is to take a noisy or disruptive child out. When she returns, she is NOT to talk to others to find out what was said while she was gone. She is supposed to wait and find out from her husband at home. Again, Simple!

However, religious zealots are quick to make an issue out of a non issue OR to act as though they are an authority on a subject such as tongues, they do believe Speaking in Tongues is for us today, yet they don't speak in tongues, and nobody in their congregation speaks in tongues.


God bless!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus told Nicodemus about the absolute necessity of being born again in order to enter the Kingdom of God, in John Chapter 3. And He also said something VERY profound, but very often overlooked ..

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Here, Jesus reveals the parallel between the natural realm and the Spiritual Realm, by using the wind as an analogy. In the parallel, Jesus declares that just as there is a “sound” associated with the wind, there is a “sound” associated with EVERYONE who is born of the Spirit.


When a woman is in the hospital birthing room the baby is born and begins to cry, and we know there is movement, there is sound, there is life.

After repentance, we are baptized in Jesus name, and filled with the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance, just as it is with the New Testament Church in Acts. By the sound, we know there is movement, there is LIFE, a baby in the church womb is just birthed forth, and is now Born Again, born of Spirit! The Spiritual parallel is, when we hear the gospel and it is mixed with faith, we become a seed in the spiritual church womb. When we come forth, we are Born Again (Born of Spirit), we are speaking in tongues crying Abba Father as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance.

Unfortunately however, many mistake that initial "spark of life", from entering into the spiritual womb, for the complete infilling of the Holy Ghost. Many grow up in the womb, live out their spiritual life in the womb, and die in the womb, never really being Born Again the Bible way. Many are so misinformed about the New Birth that they confuse (or mistake) the experience of the convicting power of the Holy Ghost (which leads them to genuine contriteness and repentance), with that of actually being born again. And, as a result, the new birth may never really occur, especially in Churches that do NOT preach the Apostles One God Monotheistic Doctrine.


Now having the groundwork, we can advance to the gift of tongues as mentioned in 1Corinthians, with this in mind...

There are actually THREE different operations of Speaking in Tongues in a fully functional Church.


PURPOSE # 1 The initial evidence of having received the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", which can be interpreted for the edification of others.

John Chapter Three (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

According to Jesus in Verse 8 (above) just as there is a "sound" associated (or present) with the wind, likewise, there is a "sound" associated (present) when EVERYONE is born of the Spirit.

My question is, What is the SOUND to which Jesus referred?

The preponderance of Scriptural evidence that is found written verbatim upon the pages of the Holy Bible of people in the New Testament Church proves to be "Speaking in Tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance." By the way, in the settings where it does NOT say one way or the other whether or not they spoke in Tongues should NOT be used to insist they did NOT. Instead, it just doesn't say. I've never had anyone to present Scripture that says someone received the Holy Ghost but did NOT speak in Tongues. However, since Tongues has become a hot topic for many, both pro and con, many are falling into the trap of adding to or taking from God's Word, depending on how you look at it.

PURPOSE # 2 Used in one's intercessory Prayer, as well as in their personal and private worship, which edifies the individual, but is NOT understood by anyone or interpreted for the edification of anyone else.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

PURPOSE # 3 Can be interpreted for the edification of an entire congregation.
1 Corinthians Chapter 14 (KJV)
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
This Chapter in 1 Corinthians is mishandled by lots of people on both sides of the issue of Tongues. For example, where we read to keep (or maintain) silence in a church setting, this doesn't mean a woman can't utter a word or sing a hymn, nor does it mean one is prohibited from praying in Tongues. The sign in a Public Library that says to keep quiet, means that. It doesn't mean nobody can utter a single syllable. Just keep quiet. Don't disturb others. Simple! One of the ways most mother's with small children help keep (maintain) silence is to take a noisy or disruptive child out. When she returns, she is NOT to talk to others to find out what was said while she was gone. She is supposed to wait and find out from her husband at home. Again, Simple!

However, religious zealots are quick to make an issue out of a non issue OR to act as though they are an authority on a subject such as tongues, they do believe Speaking in Tongues is for us today, yet they don't speak in tongues, and nobody in their congregation speaks in tongues.
God bless!

Nonsense.
You are taking the metaphorical words of Christ much too literally.

When He spoke of the “sound of the wind” he wasn’t necessarily speaking of an audible noise – like speaking in tongues. He is talking about how to differentiate a person who is of the Spirit and a person who is not in how they live their lives – NOT just tongues.

As I already showed you – 1 Cor.12:28-31 specifically states that NOT everybody in the Church speaks in tongues. Paul is writing AGAINST your kind of thinking.

Besides, if EVERY one of the Protestant denomination was being led by the Spirit – WHY are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to be “led” by the Spirit?? Some doctrines are essentials and are as different as night and day.

God is not the Author of Confusion . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

And the same can be said for many of the cases in the Catholic Church where the charges were dropped.

And you call me a liar...

As for referring to him as “Einstein” – it’s sarcasm – but I can be sarcastic with YOU, if you want . . .

I was also being somewhat sarcastic.

Like I scooled you earlier, her story is a lie, which I proved.

Can YOU prove me wrong?
I didn't think so . . .

It is par for the course that the devil would attempt to slander the testimony of the saints as being lies...especially since we overcome him, in part, by the word of our testimony.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you call me a liar...

That’s because you HAVE lied and have supported the lies of others.
I haven’t. It is a fact that charges have been dropped against many in the clergy for lack of evidence.

It is par for the course that the devil would attempt to slander the testimony of the saints as being lies...especially since we overcome him, in part, by the word of our testimony.

WRONG.
In post #866 – I proved that “Sister Charlotte”, aka “Charlotte Wells”, aka “Charlotte Keckler” was lying - and I gave examples.

Can you refute my evidence??
I didn’t think so . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is par for the course that the devil would attempt to slander the testimony of the saints as being lies...especially since we overcome him, in part, by the word of our testimony.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s because you HAVE lied and have supported the lies of others.

Have not (satan is the accuser of the brethren).

 

[justbyfaith]

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

Good luck with that . . .

Yeah, good luck with that...because that is what you are doing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have not.

Yes, you have – and I’ve called you out on it several times.
One GLARING example is when you accused me of “worshiping” the Pope – which is an abomination.

You also defended @Truther several times – even after I exposed his lies.
Isaiah 5:20 truly applies to YOU . . .
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

 

[Truther]

Hello??? Is this thing on??

How did they Baptize like John the Baptist in Jerusalem where there was NO RIVER??

They found water.
You think folks in Jerusalem took sponge baths?