How do you know your saved??

[Episkopos]

no i said they come together as in a package deal your not going to have grace with out mercy.once again mercy is not getting what we deserve .grace follows after not getting it paul wrote saved by Grace was he merciful to the ones who offered strange fire was it mercy when they was hauling the ark of the covenant on a cart. and hit a chug hole. the 2 if memory serves right touched the ark poof burnt toast so if i am saved by grace i am forgiven the law was our school master until Christ came .the law did nothing more than tell you what sin was . it had no power to save .

I can't go deep enough here to fix your circular reasoning...since you are also confusing holiness and righteousness. God can forgive righteousness issues...but holiness issues demand a swift justice. So then re-read (if you care to) the differences I listed...since you are not understanding any of them that I listed. The errors just compound in this way so that there is no easy way to untangle the ideas. You need to start again with a fresh understanding of what is foundational and build again slowly.


God goes easy on the humble...but He puts the proud through the wringer.

 

[Renniks]

Is it disbelief that he is the risen Messiah? That's what I'm talking about.

So you only have to believe He rose? You don't have to believe and do the smaller things, like believing and trusting what He said about an earthly thing like provision?[/QUOTE]
Over and over in scripture verifies that salvation is gained by believing. Believing what?
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Peter 1:3 literally says our hope comes from Christ's resurrection.
It's the whole basis of Christianity.

 

[Episkopos]

scripture that says that please

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The perverted gospel pleases men...because they don't have to change from what they are.

 

[Renniks]

Is it disbelief that he is the risen Messiah? That's what I'm talking about.

So you only have to believe He rose? You don't have to believe and do the smaller things, like believing and trusting what He said about an earthly thing like provision?[/QUOTE]
Or.. to make it more personal: if I didn't believe at a soul level that Jesus did die and rise for me, why am I worrying about whether I trust him fully with the little details of my life? Why do I agonize about the fact that I so often go off and do things without consulting him? Why do I worry about the fact that I worry, when he said not to? If I didn't trust that he was who he said he was, none of that would matter to me.

 

[Ezra]

I can't go deep enough here to fix your circular reasoning...since you are also confusing holiness and righteousness. God can forgive righteousness issues...but holiness issues demand a swift justice. So then re-read (if you care to) the differences I listed...since you are not understanding any of them that I listed. The errors just compound in this way so that there is no easy way to untangle the ideas. You need to start again with a fresh understanding of what is foundational and build again slowly.


God goes easy on the humble...but He puts the proud through the wringer.

no you cant have mercy with out grace hebrews 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence( boldness) so that we may receive "mercy and find grace " to help us in our time of need. noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord in doing so this grace helped spare his family . noah was a just man,perfect walking with God . thus this grace got him the mercy .he and his family was not destroyed in the Flood

That we may obtain mercy - Ἱνα λαβωμεν ελεον· That we may take mercy - that we may receive the pardon of all our sins; there is mercy for the taking. As Jesus Christ tasted death for every man, so every man may go to that propitiatory, and take the mercy that is suited to his degree of guilt.

And find grace - Mercy refers to the pardon of sin, and being brought into the favor of God. Grace is that by which the soul is supported after it has received this mercy, and by which it is purified from all unrighteousness, and upheld in all trials and difficulties, and enabled to prove faithful unto death.

Adam Clarke Commentary . there aint no need to try to go deep it is what is this is not another Gospel .another Gospel would have to be something fake , something that excluded the Cross

You need to start again with a fresh understanding of what is foundational and build again slowly.

Jesus is the foundation upon this Rock thou art the CHRIST i will build my Church But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. kjv uses bestowed = To present as a gift paul called it the free Gift if not for his mercy we could not have grace ==HE PAID A DEBT HE DID NOT OWE ,I OWED A DEB I COULD NOT PAY

 

[Episkopos]

no you cant have mercy with out grace hebrews 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence( boldness) so that we may receive "mercy and find grace " to help us in our time of need. noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord in doing so this grace helped spare his family . noah was a just man,perfect walking with God . thus this grace got him the mercy .he and his family was not destroyed in the Flood
Adam Clarke Commentary . there aint no need to try to go deep it is what is this is not another Gospel .another Gospel would have to be something fake , something that excluded the Cross Jesus is the foundation upon this Rock thou art the CHRIST i will build my Church But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. kjv uses bestowed = To present as a gift paul called it the free Gift if not for his mercy we could not have grace ==HE PAID A DEBT HE DID NOT OWE ,I OWED A DEB I COULD NOT PAY

This is all circular reasoning. Of course God gives us the power to walk like Jesus by His mercy. He doesn't want us to remain sinners so He gives us the grace to overcome as Jesus overcame?

But that's not how you read it. You read grace and mercy to be an ongoing forgiveness for ongoing sin. But he who sins is of the devil ...why don't you ever quote that verse. Does it go against your indoctrination??

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Now prove your indoctrination by ignoring this verse and telling me I don't post bible verses...go ahead.

ps: How do we destroy the works of the devil? By grace through faith! His power that we enter into by trusting Him.

 

[Ezra]

This is all circular reasoning.

nope its BIBLE Grace and mercy team up together .

But he who sins is of the devil

have you sinned since you got saved ? be truthful

But that's not how you read it. You read grace and mercy to be an ongoing forgiveness for ongoing sin.

i did ? when did i say that

How do we destroy the works of the devil?

by the blood of Jesus 1 john 1:7

 

[Episkopos]

nope its BIBLE Grace and mercy team up together . have you sinned since you got saved ? be truthful i did ? when did i say that

by the blood of Jesus 1 john 1:7

Round and round we go...where this stops nobody knows!

 

[Ezra]

Round and round we go...where this stops nobody knows!

or could it be you dont want to answer me . i have took the time to show by scripture.. were not going to agree were to far apart .i will stand by what i posted till the Holy spirit shows me different hebrews plainly tells us Grace and mercy go together .its like fixing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich w/0 the jelly surely Goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life trying to gt saved w/o having Jesus or Go or the holy spirit. leave any of the 3 out. you have nothing . not sure why you want to deny Grace and mercy working together . why did you not answer my question have you sinned since you was saved

 

[marks]

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The perverted gospel pleases men...because they don't have to change from what they are.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but where does this passage teach that God's grace is not in forgiveness for sinners?


21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Let me ask you . . . what does justification mean to you? Does that involve forgiveness of sins?

 

[Episkopos]

or could it be you dont want to answer me . i have took the time to show by scripture.. were not going to agree were to far apart .i will stand by what i posted till the Holy spirit shows me different hebrews plainly tells us Grace and mercy go together .its like fixing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich w/0 the jelly surely Goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life trying to gt saved w/o having Jesus or Go or the holy spirit. leave any of the 3 out. you have nothing . not sure why you want to deny Grace and mercy working together . why did you not answer my question have you sinned since you was saved

You are the one claiming to be saved and then ignoring the words of Jesus. You are selecting the verses you like and making a religion out of that.

So what do you do with the words of Jesus?

i don't claim to be saved until the end. So are you saved by ignoring Jesus?

 

[friend of]

God goes easy on the humble...but He puts the proud through the wringer

So true. I know this too well from personal experience.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

why did you not answer my question have you sinned since you was saved

I have listened to people ask this man this exact same question for many years now. I finally have just understood why people ask it.

They are resisting the scriptures he brings up because if those scriptures are true, then they would have seen them be true in their own life and since they have not seen them to be true in their own life, they must not be true.

It's saying, if we abide in Him we do not sin must not be true because I still sin. Or it's like saying...no, 2+2 equaling 4 cannot be true because I only have 2 apples.

So by asking the man this question, they think if he will answer it by saying, well yes, I have sinned since receiving the Holy Spirit, that this will prove that 2+2 does not equal 4.

It's a bit like...the bluebreasted 5-toed sloth does not exist.

What do you mean it doesn't exist?? Its well documented and many men have seen it!

No. If I have not seen it, any documentation does not matter, it doesn't exist!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In this way, everything revolves around men, just as they used to believe the sun revolved around them. This is truly, truly worshiping the creature rather than the Creator...its very bad. It is taking the words from God and forcing them to conform to fallen man.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is earthshaking...it's severe treason. Its a great falling away. Its...the great delusion.

 

[Episkopos]

So true. I know this too well from personal experience.

God never let me get away with pride. Those He loves He treats hard. So then how can so many get away with all the pride? They are the ones who claim to be saved the loudest.

Could these be exactly wrong?

 

[Episkopos]

I have listened to people ask this man this exact same question for many years now. I finally have just understood why people ask it.

They are resisting the scriptures he brings up because if those scriptures are true, then they would have seen them be true in their own life and since they have not seen them to be true in their own life, they must not be true.

It's saying, if we abide in Him we do not sin must not be true because I still sin. Or it's like saying...no, 2+2 equaling 4 cannot be true because I only have 2 apples.

So by asking the man this question, they think if he will answer it by saying, well yes, I have sinned since receiving the Holy Spirit, that this will prove that 2+2 does not equal 4.

It's a bit like...the bluebreasted 5-toed sloth does not exist.

What do you mean it doesn't exist?? Its well documented and many men have seen it!

No. If I have not seen it, any documentation does not matter, it doesn't exist!!

This is what I say about a lack of honesty in today's churches. People are indoctrinated with answers...but they don't know the questions. Have you ever seen the billboards that say...Jesus is the answer?

Well people have been convinced all they need is answers...not understanding spiritual equations.

It's like a person who wants to be a scientist and knows E=Mc2...but that's all he knows. He just knows the answer. Does that make him a scientist?

Does knowing that Jesus is the answer make someone a Christian?

So when people claim to be already fully saved...which I don't....I share the hard verses with them that are missing from THEIR equations. Now instead of joining me in humility towards salvation...they challenge me on MY salvation...instead of themselves. They are SO dishonest.

How can that be Christ-like?

 

[Ezra]

I have listened to people ask this man this exact same question for many years now. I finally have just understood why people ask it.

lol i hear ya he has a problem with everyone he needs to read Romans 6:14

 

[charity]

'Brethren, be followers together of me,
.. and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
.... (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
...... that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
........ Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
.......... and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
For our conversation is in heaven;
.. from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
.... Who shall change our vile body,
...... that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,
........ according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.'
(Philippians 3:17-21)

* Am I right in considering those who deny the efficacy of the work of Christ upon the cross as enemies of the cross of Christ?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Episkopos]

'Brethren, be followers together of me,
.. and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
.... (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
...... that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
........ Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
.......... and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
For our conversation is in heaven;
.. from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
.... Who shall change our vile body,
...... that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,
........ according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.'
(Philippians 3:17-21)

* Am I right in considering those who deny the efficacy of the work of Christ upon the cross as enemies of the cross of Christ?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

The enemies of the cross are those who claim Jesus as their Lamb...for their own sins...but who continue to live for themselves. So these use God and Christ for their OWN SALVATION. And the enemies of the cross see nothing wrong with this selfish use of God and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

But Jesus calls us to follow Him...not use Him. They who seek to just use Him...are the enemies of the cross. These refuse so give up their lives...instead are looking to save themselves intact through a religious belief in Jesus as their saviour.