The Apostate Holy Laughter Movement

[marksman]

FYI Name calling is not only an example of not walking IN the Spirit, but it is against the rule of this forum.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Not saying that believers that stoop to name calling don't have the Holy Spirit, but that they are not walking with Him when they do that in ministry.

Psalm 119:132 Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name. 133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me. 134 Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.

So pray for those that have stooped to name calling as well as for all of us not to give in to temptations to do that in here and for those that have gone astray.

Because, people that chase after seducing spirits for a sign is another example of not walking IN the Spirit as they are denying Him being in them since salvation, ( even though He is still in them as promised for all those that come to & believe in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. )

Keep the faith in Jesus Christ that He is in you and is with you always as promised so you can rest in Him as complete in Christ as always Spirit-filled.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world...........
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hello Mr. Nothing. Enjoy criticising everyone?

 

[marksman]

I believe you should discern that gossip, brother. There would be no reason for the Holy Spirit to answer that brother to interpret. One reason is if he is singing the same song as everyone else in worship but in Portuguese, the brother can very well know the song by heart in English for how he is interpreting, and since the Holy Spirit interprets to edify the body withal, when every one else is singing the same song but in English, it is rather moot.

Is the Holy Spirit vain? No, but that brother was for claiming he was interpreting that song in Portuguese in English. I do not see why he would sing other songs in Portuguese as apart from what the church is singing in English, but even then, the guy can learn Portuguese to listen to key words of the usual songs he sings in Portuguese and know which song he is singing and interpret that song from memory or from the heart. People can learn a language quick these days and even faster when they are exposed to someone speaking it, but that whole scenario just doesn't jive with vanity in it.

You & I want to believe God's gift of tongues are still in use today, as I would like to believe it is being used in the far reaches of the earth in reaching the lost in their native tongue, since we do have the gift of discerning spirits, do we not? That cannot have ceased so why would we believe the others have?

But as you say, because of fakers, and it is in a church where everybody speaks in English, even visiting foreigners that know English, since Paul exhorted believers in 1 Corinthians 14:1-33 that if they were to seek a spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and then proceeded to explain why by comparing the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy by exposing tongues as not a stand alone gift for any one to seek after, and so they should seek after gift of prophesy for the edifying of the church. And since Paul was led by the Holy Spirit to exhort that, then He would only be manifesting the gift of prophesy in an all English speaking church when tongues with interpretation was for the edification of the body withal. And when the written scripture is available, nothing manifested will be different other than bringing in remembrance of all things Jesus has said unto us by the written word.

So as much as you & I would think the Holy Spirit would make an exception, that gossip about that brother interpreting that Portuguese would be vanity for the Holy Spirit to do that. It just brings the spotlight on the brother doing a moot interpretation when everyone knows the song. I had wanted to believe that but it just didn't sit well as I was typing my earlier post to you in discerning the report you had shared.

Pray about it. Don't get mad at the brother for pulling that con, but if that is still going on, I think the elders should discourage it to avoid any further temptations in others to do the same as in from the prayer to the Father, "lead us not into temptation". Temptations will arise to bring out fake tongues as well as fake interpretation as not done by the Holy Spirit to fit in or to being attention to themselves. Having a deterrence in place like a general rule in church, no interpreting songs that every one is singing in English would be a way to avoid it and yet allow those to continue to worship Him in their native tongue. Seems reasonable and prudent, yes?

Hello Mr. Nothing. What do you do when you are not criticising someone? Silly question. That is all you ever do.

 

[marksman]

if he gives a joy which no man can take away? are you suggesting he does not give a joy no man can take away? “Why are those who oppose the supernatural are so miserable and critical?” ...I don’t know. You tell me why those who claim the supernatural so defensive and critical? Again, Paul was in a hole, naked and cold and hungry ...all the churches he had planted were being over ran by wolves. Nothing was manifesting as being a great success had been delivered, but instead it took the ”Faith” of Christ in Paul to, regardless of what was seen he endured, crying out as example “rejoice...I say it again rejoice”. Sober minded and not Drunken as the proof is what is written in Paul’s request was to bring his parchments. A joy and “remaining” not based off of experiences of the seen but the evidence of that which is unseen. So much so that whenever Paul spoke of the Lord stood with him, by his side...Unseen.

so you go ahead on whatever path you choose. Only wanted you to make sure you have what is real and not fake. That is not hating you but pleading for and with you.

You don't know? You should do as you seem to specialise in it.

 

[marksman]

I was sorting out some of the 1,000 books I have in my personal library today, some of which I have not touched for a long time. I was quite amazed at how many there were written by people who God used in a supernatural way to introduce the church to supernatural happenings that the church had previously rejected.

David DuPlessis was mightily used by God to reintroduce the use of tongues all over the western world.

Michael Harper was used by God to introduce the baptism of the Spirit to the Anglican Church in the UK.

Arthur Wallis was used by God to spread the truth about the baptism of the Spirit amongst many different churches.

Terry Virgo was used by God to birth a new movement amongst the restoration movement which incorporated the tenets of the Brethren and the baptism of the Spirit.

Rees Howells was used by God to bring revival to the country of Wales where thousands were converted as a result and from which the Bible College of Wales came about.

Tony Dale who introduced the concept of counseling using discernment given by the Holy Spirit.

Peter Wagner who taught a deeper understanding of the supernatural forces in spiritual warfare.

John Arnott who wrote a book of testimonies of people who had experienced the blessing of Toronto and reaped the fruit of the Father's blessing.

Charles Morris who wrote about the miraculous happenings amongst Muslims who were coming to Christ through dreams and visions.

And that is just one shelf of my bookshelf.

With such a vast amount of supernatural power evidenced over the years, I can understand that satan would step in and try and dampen belief in the supernatural power of God and attempt to make it a dead church that only believes in itself.

Thank God it is not going to happen as the flame has been lit and nothing, not even Christians who deny the power of God will put out the flame. The persecution that is happening to the church in western society is great as it is sorting out the sheep from the goats. Those that hold a form of religion but deny the power of it and those who embrace God in all his power and smash the enemies' efforts to silence the church.

Woohoo!! Bring it on God and let your power prevail.

 

[FollowHim]

Questionable. I could believe that if it wasn't for 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 for why foreigners were to be commanded not to speak as they were speaking out of turn when 2 or 3 were speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, and another interpret. I can understand that he knows what he is speaking as God does to; not that he was speaking to God per the scripture reference, but that God understood what he was saying as he does too. That was why he was commanded to be silent because he speaks unto himself ( meaning he is speaking his actual native language for why he understand skit ) and speaking unto God ( meaning not speaking TO God per se but that God understood what he was saying too.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

No one can really hear anything from the pulpit, let alone from actual tongue speakers if someone was still speaking in their native foreign tongue in church for why silence mean silence in the church while 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret.

Granted, your testimony was about a foreigner worshiping God in worship in his native foreign language, and someone else supposedly prayed to interpret what he was saying in English. Can it happen? Can any one else confirm that he did not really know the language? As it is, I am not sure why the Holy Spirit would bother to interpret it when there are not 2 or 3 doing the speaking.

What I understand for why the necessity of having two or three witnesses is to establish a testimony by that tongue just as they do by prophesy. It is a practice for confirming anything true from the Lord or from men.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

So it is questionable to me for one person to interpret as by the Holy Spirit, on one person speaking in his native tongue for that to be true. There certainly no instructions in the church to pray to Jesus Christ that the Holy Spirit may interpret a foreigner in their midst, but then why command him to be silent during the event when 2 or 3 are speaking in tongues? Why are there no instructions for praying that the Lord would have the Holy Spirit interpreting a foreigner's tongue after service or after that practice when 2 or 3 spoke in tongues and another interpret was done with?

I would imagine that Corinth is on a main traffic route for why foreigners may visit the assembly, and so I would think Paul would have taught that the Holy Spirit will help believers interpret any foreigner that had spoken out of turn when he saw 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret, rather then command him to be silent in the assembly, and just leave him at that.



When speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues is for our edification, then when all speak one language, the Holy Spirit would choose the quickest route for our edification and that is to prophesy in the language that everybody in church understands. That is the purpose; not for showing off gifts of tongues and the interpretation of tongues, but to edify the body of believers. Since that is what Paul was exhorting believers to do in seeking a gift to edify the body of believers, it is no wonder why he was toting prophesy over tongues thru out 1 Corinthians 14th chapter.



Discerning of spirits is also a gift of the Spirit as precedeing gifts of tongues and the interpretation of that tongue. The ordinance in how the gifts were to be manifested in the assembly is to confirm the word brought by speaking in tongues and in prophesy by 2 or 3 witnesses while another interpret and judge. Anyway, I find it hard to not see the spotlight on that brother doing the interpreting rather than the Lord thru the Holy Spirit.

On the actual people involved in the situation, I know them all.
It was the wife of the man who spoke in Portuguese who testified to this reality.
The Portuguese brother was also surprised at how this happened. I was in the service at the time, and knew the man who prayed, who did not interpret the previous prayer knowingly, he just felt inspired to pray.

My point in sharing this is simple, we should not limit our praise and worship of God, He will do as He sees fit, and will through us bring glory to His name. What is clear is we want to come out with rules or things that should or should not happen, rather than walk in the Spirit and let love and enthusiasm for God and His ways rule how we live and react to Him. Amen.

 

[FollowHim]

What you have seen is anecdotal experience. No one who is theologically savvy bases their beliefs on anecdotal evidence. Especially when all they do is criticise it, which suggests they are not looking for evidence. They are looking for isolated incidents to prove they are right and everyone else is wrong. When it comes to biblical exegesis you are definitely up a creek without a paddle.

Funny that. We don't know your experience or insight but you know everyone's who does not agree with you. Can't work that one out. However, we know your insight because it is plastered all over these pages. Only I would not call it insight. I would call it the parroting of doctrine which you have been told is the right one as you have yet to come up with anything original.

And you are obviously deluded because NO ONE is 100% right as the scriptures make it quite clear we are being changed on a daily basis and our sanctification is happening all the time. I have been a Christian for 66 years and have been to bible college and taught in bible college and I have three university degrees and written a paper for a Ph.D. but despite all that I have never been 100% right.

May I suggest that humility is not your strong point.

As for millions of believers who hold your position. HOW DO YOU KNOW?

And for your information, there are millions who do not hold to your opinion. Check mate.

I do not parrot doctrine, it is written on my heart through dwelling in Christ.
Funnily I am not here to win an argument, but to testify to Gods word and invite those who believe God, to ask, to seek and God promises He will answer.

The irony is, God will testify and God will confirm His word planted in His people.
As He declares

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28

I wonder what you regard as being 100% right. I have spent now 4 years discussing with believers on forums various aspects of our theology and faith. What shocked me was I would see a particular aspect of our walk, and then construct a way of expressing this. To my surprise I found I used the same words and emphasis that the apostles and new testament writers used. It suddenly struck me they were in a similar position as myself, which I never expected.

My point about positions and opinions is simply these discussions are not our own, but shared with the whole body of Christ. And our conclusions in Christ are to His glory as we are called His people, called by His name to testify to His eternal purposes.

Thank you marksman for sharing your experience and resume. My aim is not to win an argument but to share of door God gives His people through gifts of the Holy Spirit to give testimony to His presence and glory and witness to His Kingdom. If you praise God, walk in righteousness and testify to the gospel, Amen, God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

I believe you should discern that gossip, brother. There would be no reason for the Holy Spirit to answer that brother to interpret. One reason is if he is singing the same song as everyone else in worship but in Portuguese, the brother can very well know the song by heart in English for how he is interpreting, and since the Holy Spirit interprets to edify the body withal, when every one else is singing the same song but in English, it is rather moot.

Is the Holy Spirit vain? No, but that brother was for claiming he was interpreting that song in Portuguese in English. I do not see why he would sing other songs in Portuguese as apart from what the church is singing in English, but even then, the guy can learn Portuguese to listen to key words of the usual songs he sings in Portuguese and know which song he is singing and interpret that song from memory or from the heart. People can learn a language quick these days and even faster when they are exposed to someone speaking it, but that whole scenario just doesn't jive with vanity in it.

You & I want to believe God's gift of tongues are still in use today, as I would like to believe it is being used in the far reaches of the earth in reaching the lost in their native tongue, since we do have the gift of discerning spirits, do we not? That cannot have ceased so why would we believe the others have?

But as you say, because of fakers, and it is in a church where everybody speaks in English, even visiting foreigners that know English, since Paul exhorted believers in 1 Corinthians 14:1-33 that if they were to seek a spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and then proceeded to explain why by comparing the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy by exposing tongues as not a stand alone gift for any one to seek after, and so they should seek after gift of prophesy for the edifying of the church. And since Paul was led by the Holy Spirit to exhort that, then He would only be manifesting the gift of prophesy in an all English speaking church when tongues with interpretation was for the edification of the body withal. And when the written scripture is available, nothing manifested will be different other than bringing in remembrance of all things Jesus has said unto us by the written word.

So as much as you & I would think the Holy Spirit would make an exception, that gossip about that brother interpreting that Portuguese would be vanity for the Holy Spirit to do that. It just brings the spotlight on the brother doing a moot interpretation when everyone knows the song. I had wanted to believe that but it just didn't sit well as I was typing my earlier post to you in discerning the report you had shared.

Pray about it. Don't get mad at the brother for pulling that con, but if that is still going on, I think the elders should discourage it to avoid any further temptations in others to do the same as in from the prayer to the Father, "lead us not into temptation". Temptations will arise to bring out fake tongues as well as fake interpretation as not done by the Holy Spirit to fit in or to being attention to themselves. Having a deterrence in place like a general rule in church, no interpreting songs that every one is singing in English would be a way to avoid it and yet allow those to continue to worship Him in their native tongue. Seems reasonable and prudent, yes?

There is something I left out. The brother who prayed the interpretation was totally unaware he was doing this.
There was no vanity or even knowledge of this event, other than I know all concerned well.

I was sharing this to demonstrate God uses everything, and His grace and love overwhelms all situations as any parent would do for His children.

My impression of the Lord is to bless, is to use all our enthusiasm to His glory, and encourage us to walk deeper and more fully. It is why often heretics and those who have lots of issues still find blessing and inspiration.

King Saul was anointed by the Holy Spirit and prophesied. It did not mean he personally had good insight or authority. God does not deny Himself, and blesses even those who are all over the place theologically and spiritually.
If this was not so I could not praise the Lord with unbelievers and sinners in church services, because I would have to be assured they all knew God is a defined way that I felt God could acknowledge to my heart.

Many go to services and can testify to the presence of God, yet not know what it actually means in their lives and hearts. This is why I tend to emphasise the path and seeking Gods righteousness above anything else, because the Lord promises to answer those who seek Him with their whole hearts.

 

[FollowHim]

I was sorting out some of the 1,000 books I have in my personal library today, some of which I have not touched for a long time. I was quite amazed at how many there were written by people who God used in a supernatural way to introduce the church to supernatural happenings that the church had previously rejected.

David DuPlessis was mightily used by God to reintroduce the use of tongues all over the western world.

Michael Harper was used by God to introduce the baptism of the Spirit to the Anglican Church in the UK.

Arthur Wallis was used by God to spread the truth about the baptism of the Spirit amongst many different churches.

Terry Virgo was used by God to birth a new movement amongst the restoration movement which incorporated the tenets of the Brethren and the baptism of the Spirit.

Rees Howells was used by God to bring revival to the country of Wales where thousands were converted as a result and from which the Bible College of Wales came about.

Tony Dale who introduced the concept of counseling using discernment given by the Holy Spirit.

Peter Wagner who taught a deeper understanding of the supernatural forces in spiritual warfare.

John Arnott who wrote a book of testimonies of people who had experienced the blessing of Toronto and reaped the fruit of the Father's blessing.

Charles Morris who wrote about the miraculous happenings amongst Muslims who were coming to Christ through dreams and visions.

And that is just one shelf of my bookshelf.

With such a vast amount of supernatural power evidenced over the years, I can understand that satan would step in and try and dampen belief in the supernatural power of God and attempt to make it a dead church that only believes in itself.

Thank God it is not going to happen as the flame has been lit and nothing, not even Christians who deny the power of God will put out the flame. The persecution that is happening to the church in western society is great as it is sorting out the sheep from the goats. Those that hold a form of religion but deny the power of it and those who embrace God in all his power and smash the enemies' efforts to silence the church.

Woohoo!! Bring it on God and let your power prevail.

Peter Wagner and the NAR along with the Latter Rain heresy must be one of the most miss-guided movements in the current generation.
I came across this crowd at the blessing of Todd Bentley and his nutcase angel, who spread wealth to people through angel dust and jewels.

If you want a more insane meaningless movement this is it. Woe, woe, hahahahah, I cannot move it is sooooo heavy, this really is blessssssing in a way that sane sensible people recognise as drunk behaviour with zero knowledge or reality.

Toronto blessing is just guys running around is some transcendent state that is meant to be significant.
But all that came from this is barking, laughing, and being made fools of.

How are the people of God going to conquer the ways of the world? Through a whoopie service which is more a drug fest than anything helpful.
I have seen things go from the 1970's till now, churches have shrunk, abandoned the word of God and replaced love with miracles that have simply not occurred while the believers have claimed they have.

How do you cope with a 10 year old dying of cancer, in pain, in trauma, effecting a whole family with people claiming healing and God loves them enough to bring about a miracle only to be shown this is a lie. How deep do these lies go? How bad are these self deluded nutcases to claim so much and deliver nothing, to have no consequences as a result?

Or take Kenneth Copeland who can control the weather. Nope, not a chance. God controls the weather, it is not ours to have authority over.
But a tornado happens, a group prays and the tornado does not destroy the church but just all the surrounding buildings.
The church must be fantastic, because it got spared and the authority exercised so authentic. I call that Gods grace on miss-guided people who God desires to reach out to, but clearly have no real clue as to His will. They did not stop anything, God spared one building.

It is the same logic, which says, we conquered the illness, the faith was successful, God just called them home, but it is by the illness, which was described as satan attacking them. So in their theology satan won, they lost, so their faith is null and void, literally, because satan cannot conquer God. Oh wait a minute, even if their faith is null and void, God still loves them, so they are safe, and nothing really matters.

Or take the continuous proclamations of revival that will hit the world. But in reality the opposite takes place, because the revival being talked about is not repentance from sin and walking in Gods ways in righteousness and purity, but praise and worship meetings which proclaim a spiritual drunken state without anything else is large venues, thinking this is what it means to follow Jesus. Put simply if you are not a drunken spiritual type of person you are not saved....... And most are never going to be there even when they know the Lord in Spirit and truth.

Ironically for me I love praise and worship, being lost in Christ, knowing His touch and blessing, but not this insane heresy without Jesus, and His word and the Holy Spirit bringing order and reality to the theology and reality of the day. So much blasphemy, without even a second of a bad conscience or regret which denies our Holy God and His ways and truth. It is amazing if you get people in the right mood what you can get away with, especially if they are not born of the Holy Spirit. God bless you all.

 

[FollowHim]

More blabbering rubbish which has no truth in it whatsoever. Even if we could understand what you are saying. I guess when all you can offer is head knowledge it is pretty dead and dismal.

"More blabbering rubbish" - I have found those who speak like this talk about their own position more than anothers.
Everything has some truth in it, or you cannot even make sentences or put an idea together.

When you realise Jesus was always careful to point out the weaknesses in a position, because he fully understood their foundation and where they are coming from. We always see those who claim so much, who reach up to the sky with absolutes, with definitive positions, experiences from which everything else must be subservient are those who dismiss others like they a just rain drops, of no substance

The problem is, both parties always represent a whole group of legitimate experiences and claims, which need documenting and understanding. What one begins to realise is every generation always has these groups, in one form or another, and equally reactions of alarm and horror from other groups. Mostly it is just opinions and upset involved, so it makes me laugh how people with vast years of experience think it there is value in verbal labelling and none in a cohesive demolishing of heresy, like the Latter Rain claims of super apostles, who even though they believe they are eternal, ushering in the Kingdom, die and are buried or cremated, which testifies both to Gods opinion on their position and their end in death.

 

[Enow]

On the actual people involved in the situation, I know them all.
It was the wife of the man who spoke in Portuguese who testified to this reality.
The Portuguese brother was also surprised at how this happened. I was in the service at the time, and knew the man who prayed, who did not interpret the previous prayer knowingly, he just felt inspired to pray.

My point in sharing this is simple, we should not limit our praise and worship of God, He will do as He sees fit, and will through us bring glory to His name. What is clear is we want to come out with rules or things that should or should not happen, rather than walk in the Spirit and let love and enthusiasm for God and His ways rule how we live and react to Him. Amen.

Sorry. Now you lost me.

Originally it was the guy singing a song in Portuguese in worship in praising God, right? The brother besides him prayed that he would interpret what was being sung?

Now you say he was praying to interpret a prayer? I am not following you, brother, sorry.

One thing I will point out is .. it doesn't matter how well you know someone, you have to prove everything by Him. They are not exempt by the devil for having any temptations; including the temptations to fit in seeing how they are foreigners.

So I will ask you this question; do you believe the Holy Spirit can use tongues for uttering His own intercessions?

If so, explain John 16:13 which testifies that He cannot do that, but speak what He hears so that make His intercessions as well as His groanings as silent as per Romans 8:26-27 per the KJV in keeping in line with the truth in John 16:13. It is by Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit since Jesus is the One that searches our hearts, is how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's are known to God the Father since Jesus is the Only Mediator between God and men to give the Spirit's silent intercessions, His own intercessions, and our intercessions to the Father. Whenever the Father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 ) That is why the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer just as why the Holy Spirit need not utter His intercessions because Jesus has told the Father, but we are to ask so that we know we had asked them so that when we get an answer to prayer, we can give the Father thanks in Jesus name which is the will of God for us to do.

I do not know if you are practicing tongues for private use or that you believe God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people, can be turned around and be used by the Holy Spirit to pray to God by ( which would be a confusing thing to do ) but I'd just thought I would give you a heads up.

A lot of modern day tongue speakers will testify later in life as a saved believer to receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation with that tongue for why I believe that tongue is not of Him when they are speaking to the same rudiment for how holy laughter & slain in the spirit happens by. I know you see the errors of those phenomenon, but that is also how one can test the spirits and the tongue they bring too.

Anyway, some clarity is needed. I hoped I did not had to share all my concerns with the scripture regarding the issue of tongues, but since my time on the internet is tenuous, I was led to share this with you, just in case.

 

[Enow]

There is something I left out. The brother who prayed the interpretation was totally unaware he was doing this.

There was no vanity or even knowledge of this event, other than I know all concerned well.

Are you saying he did not know English to interpret that? Still confused here, sorry, brother.

I was sharing this to demonstrate God uses everything, and His grace and love overwhelms all situations as any parent would do for His children.

My impression of the Lord is to bless, is to use all our enthusiasm to His glory, and encourage us to walk deeper and more fully. It is why often heretics and those who have lots of issues still find blessing and inspiration.

Well, when anything is done disorderly and going against ordinances and traditions taught of us we have to consider the guidelines for why the Holy Spirit would manifest in the worship place and that is to edify the body as a whole per 1 Corinthians 12:7-13

King Saul was anointed by the Holy Spirit and prophesied. It did not mean he personally had good insight or authority. God does not deny Himself, and blesses even those who are all over the place theologically and spiritually.

I am sure you probably would reword that since believers in the "holy laughter" movement and slain in the spirit phenomenon can apply that to them. So there has to be order even for the use of tongues or something is not right.

If this was not so I could not praise the Lord with unbelievers and sinners in church services, because I would have to be assured they all knew God is a defined way that I felt God could acknowledge to my heart.

And yet we are called to not believe every spirit, but test them so sinners can know what to repent from in regards to their spirits, tongues, and phenomenon and not behave as such in the churches of the saints.

Many go to services and can testify to the presence of God, yet not know what it actually means in their lives and hearts. This is why I tend to emphasise the path and seeking Gods righteousness above anything else, because the Lord promises to answer those who seek Him with their whole hearts.

We will know the Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us. If we feel the presence of God outside of us in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist dwells, that is not the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist. Those that are saved, need not seek Him in that way ever again, but seek His face in worship by honoring the Son in testifying of Him and thereby glorifying Him to the glory of God the Father as led by the indwelling Holy Spirit for us to do. When the spotlight is on the Holy Spirit in worship, then they are not led by the Holy Spirit in them to do that but seducing spirits will come in and take that spotlight to lure believers to chase after them for a sign, even for feeling the presence outside of them in the worship place.

No one need to testify of the presence of God in coming to a worship service when He dwells in us and is with us always. That is our faith in Jesus Christ

 

[FollowHim]

Sorry. Now you lost me.

Originally it was the guy singing a song in Portuguese in worship in praising God, right? The brother besides him prayed that he would interpret what was being sung?

Now you say he was praying to interpret a prayer? I am not following you, brother, sorry.

One thing I will point out is .. it doesn't matter how well you know someone, you have to prove everything by Him. They are not exempt by the devil for having any temptations; including the temptations to fit in seeing how they are foreigners.

So I will ask you this question; do you believe the Holy Spirit can use tongues for uttering His own intercessions?

If so, explain John 16:13 which testifies that He cannot do that, but speak what He hears so that make His intercessions as well as His groanings as silent as per Romans 8:26-27 per the KJV in keeping in line with the truth in John 16:13. It is by Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit since Jesus is the One that searches our hearts, is how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's are known to God the Father since Jesus is the Only Mediator between God and men to give the Spirit's silent intercessions, His own intercessions, and our intercessions to the Father. Whenever the Father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 ) That is why the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer just as why the Holy Spirit need not utter His intercessions because Jesus has told the Father, but we are to ask so that we know we had asked them so that when we get an answer to prayer, we can give the Father thanks in Jesus name which is the will of God for us to do.

I do not know if you are practicing tongues for private use or that you believe God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people, can be turned around and be used by the Holy Spirit to pray to God by ( which would be a confusing thing to do ) but I'd just thought I would give you a heads up.

A lot of modern day tongue speakers will testify later in life as a saved believer to receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation with that tongue for why I believe that tongue is not of Him when they are speaking to the same rudiment for how holy laughter & slain in the spirit happens by. I know you see the errors of those phenomenon, but that is also how one can test the spirits and the tongue they bring too.

Anyway, some clarity is needed. I hoped I did not had to share all my concerns with the scripture regarding the issue of tongues, but since my time on the internet is tenuous, I was led to share this with you, just in case.

I regret my description must not have been clear enough.
In a time of open worship, one brother prays in Portuguese, praising God etc.
Immediately afterwards another brother stands up, and in english prays praising God.

The second brother said the same things that the first brother had prayed in Portuguese.
Those who knew Portuguese, the first brother and his wife were surprised about this situation had occurred as the second brother who is chinese, did not know Portuguese and was unaware of what he had done.

The first brother who did not speak in tongues, just English and Portuguese had asked the Lord why he was not gifted in such a way. He wondered how real such an experience was, and felt this both confirmed the Lords anointing and that He distributes gifts as He deems fit. God bless you

 

[Enow]

I regret my description must not have been clear enough.
In a time of open worship, one brother prays in Portuguese, praising God etc.
Immediately afterwards another brother stands up, and in english prays praising God.

The second brother said the same things that the first brother had prayed in Portuguese.
Those who knew Portuguese, the first brother and his wife were surprised about this situation had occurred as the second brother who is chinese, did not know Portuguese and was unaware of what he had done.

Supposedly unaware which makes it circumspect since the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets for why we are called not to quench the Spirit when it comes to prophesying. "Unaware"? No, sorry. Does not align with His words.

1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

If there was no self control over the manifestations of the gifts, there would be no order.

I tend to believe that the Chinese brother had learned Portuguese to interpret that for him to say he was unaware.

The first brother who did not speak in tongues, just English and Portuguese had asked the Lord why he was not gifted in such a way. He wondered how real such an experience was, and felt this both confirmed the Lords anointing and that He distributes gifts as He deems fit. God bless you

Since tongues nor any of the gifts are to be used as proof or a sign of anything let alone the Lord's anointing to the believers, they should be corrected for this mentality, unless they too, by their testimony lure believers to seek a sign by a gift to confirm that they have the Holy Spirit in them since the calling of the gospel. We are not to seek confirmation that the Holy Spirit is in us by a sign les we mislead others to doubt and then they too seek confirmation.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The fact that no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ), and the Father reveals the Son to those who seek Him ( Matthew 11:25-27 ), then our believing in Him is a work of God too ( John 3:18-21 ) for why there is no necessity to seek a sign or proof of the Holy Spirit in us.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So.. there are several contentions that do not line up with His words; one suspecting the Chinese for lying per His words as being "unaware" and second, how that deceptive incident by that Chinese brother has led the Portuguese couple to a wrong conclusion that could mislead others into seeking confirmation of the Holy Spirit in them by a gift when tongue nor any gift is to be used that way towards the believers to know; not about confirming the Holy Spirit in them; not for proof of salvation, and not for proof that God is calling them into the ministry.

They should rest in the truth that they are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ. The fact that they believe is a miracle from God the Father. No other sign is necessary when they believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hisman]

I regret my description must not have been clear enough.
In a time of open worship, one brother prays in Portuguese, praising God etc.
Immediately afterwards another brother stands up, and in english prays praising God.

The second brother said the same things that the first brother had prayed in Portuguese.
Those who knew Portuguese, the first brother and his wife were surprised about this situation had occurred as the second brother who is chinese, did not know Portuguese and was unaware of what he had done.

The first brother who did not speak in tongues, just English and Portuguese had asked the Lord why he was not gifted in such a way. He wondered how real such an experience was, and felt this both confirmed the Lords anointing and that He distributes gifts as He deems fit. God bless you

Brother, your description was clear.
None so blind as those who do not want to see.

You are wasting your time in trying.
They will never see, as they have their eyes closed.

What you shared was a good testimony, but wasted here.

Be blessed bro.

 

[Enow]

Brother, your description was clear.
None so blind as those who do not want to see.

You are wasting your time in trying.
They will never see, as they have their eyes closed.

What you shared was a good testimony, but wasted here.

Be blessed bro.

I believe I used scripture for how I discerned what he had described.

There is no way the Chinese guy can be "unaware" of what he was saying since the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 How can 2 or 3 speak in tongues and one interpret if they do it in an orderly fashion but as unaware? There can be no loss of self control. That is why we are not to quench the Spirit, because we can when anyone is led to prophesy as in edify one another, but didn't want to.

And for that Portuguese couple to take that "deceptive" incident by that Chinese brother to infer that the Holy Spirit manifested that gift as a sign that he had received the anointing is not why the Holy Spirit would manifest any gift for, to prove as a sign or proof to the believers. The Portuguese couple just need to be reminded of our faith in Jesus Christ. Otherwise, come a day when they have sinned so badly that they wonder how they could ever do such a thing and wonder if the Holy Spirit was still in them or if He ever was, they will look for a sign when they should take comfort in His words that He is in them always and even help them depart from their sins and not just forgive them of their sins as promised in 1 John 1:9 & 1 John 3:3,8 & 2 Timothy 4:18 You really have to discern why a couple needed a sign or proof that anyone had received the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

We should not be defending any stories that puts emphasis on signs as proof of the anointing when scripture would have us all keep the good report of the Holy Spirit was received as promised by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel so they all may continually rest in Him that they are saved. I believe the Chinese brother learned the language, and was just drawing attention to himself, and as a result, the couple took that incident to come to the wrong conclusion as proof or a sign that he had received the anointing or that they had or both. 1 Corinthians 14:22

How would you want fellow believers to know they are saved and that they had received the anointing? Think about what scripture would have you say.

 

[Hisman]

I believe I used scripture for how I discerned what he had described.

I have read your 52 post in this one thread .
Yet you have convinced no one but yourself - you are not worthy of any response .
Many others have tried , but your ears are close just as your heart is .
I am sorry for you , ‘you know not what spirit you are of’.

I have also read your other ‘lack of faith ‘ and ‘anti-Holy Spirit’ posts also.
Very sad indeed . I weep for you, and the likes of you that are also here on this forum .

May God be gracious to you and visit you in the night watches.

 

[Enow]

I have read your 52 post in this one thread .
Yet you have convinced no one but yourself - you are not worthy of any response .
Many others have tried , but your ears are close just as your heart is .
I am sorry for you , ‘you know not what spirit you are of’.

I have also read your other ‘lack of faith ‘ and ‘anti-Holy Spirit’ posts also.
Very sad indeed . I weep for you, and the likes of you that are also here on this forum .

You are right that I cannot convince any one, but I hope in Him that God may be peradventuring to recover some from this snare of the devil.

Reminding believers of our faith in Jesus Christ that we have been always Spirit-filled since our salvation at the calling of the gospel is keeping the faith which is the good fight in the face of apostasy that is denying we are always Spirit-filled as if we are leaky vessels and thus committing spiritual adultery in chasing after spirits to receive after one sign or another.

The warnings to saved believers are in the scripture, and the saints that are involved in the holy laughter movement has not bothered to show why those warnings in scripture do not apply to them. In fact, it would be hard for them in being able to apply those warnings at all.

May God be gracious to you and visit you in the night watches.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

That is why no visit from God is required when He is in us and is with us always. That means you too, bro. That is how you know when any spirit "visits", that is not the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

May God wake you up, because I know I cannot.

 

[marksman]

"More blabbering rubbish" - I have found those who speak like this talk about their own position more than anothers.
Everything has some truth in it, or you cannot even make sentences or put an idea together.

When you realise Jesus was always careful to point out the weaknesses in a position, because he fully understood their foundation and where they are coming from. We always see those who claim so much, who reach up to the sky with absolutes, with definitive positions, experiences from which everything else must be subservient are those who dismiss others like they a just rain drops, of no substance

The problem is, both parties always represent a whole group of legitimate experiences and claims, which need documenting and understanding. What one begins to realise is every generation always has these groups, in one form or another, and equally reactions of alarm and horror from other groups. Mostly it is just opinions and upset involved, so it makes me laugh how people with vast years of experience think it there is value in verbal labelling and none in a cohesive demolishing of heresy, like the Latter Rain claims of super apostles, who even though they believe they are eternal, ushering in the Kingdom, die and are buried or cremated, which testifies both to Gods opinion on their position and their end in death.

Totally irrelevant.

 

[marksman]

I was at a conference during the week and one of the speakers was a young lady who had been a drug addict. She had overdosed several times on heroin. During one of those times, God spoke to her audibly in the drug-induced haze she was in and said: "Follow me."

Immediately she was raised up by the Spirit of God and given new life in Christ. From that moment she never touched drugs again. She was an artist who specialised in painting the dark side of life and as a result, she had at least 10 exhibitions a year. Once she was born again, she starting painting things that showed the good things in life and she was cut off by the artistic fraternity.

 

[marksman]

Peter Wagner and the NAR along with the Latter Rain heresy must be one of the most miss-guided movements in the current generation.
I came across this crowd at the blessing of Todd Bentley and his nutcase angel, who spread wealth to people through angel dust and jewels.

If you want a more insane meaningless movement this is it. Woe, woe, hahahahah, I cannot move it is sooooo heavy, this really is blessssssing in a way that sane sensible people recognise as drunk behaviour with zero knowledge or reality.

Toronto blessing is just guys running around is some transcendent state that is meant to be significant.
But all that came from this is barking, laughing, and being made fools of.

How are the people of God going to conquer the ways of the world? Through a whoopie service which is more a drug fest than anything helpful.
I have seen things go from the 1970's till now, churches have shrunk, abandoned the word of God and replaced love with miracles that have simply not occurred while the believers have claimed they have.

How do you cope with a 10 year old dying of cancer, in pain, in trauma, effecting a whole family with people claiming healing and God loves them enough to bring about a miracle only to be shown this is a lie. How deep do these lies go? How bad are these self deluded nutcases to claim so much and deliver nothing, to have no consequences as a result?

Or take Kenneth Copeland who can control the weather. Nope, not a chance. God controls the weather, it is not ours to have authority over.
But a tornado happens, a group prays and the tornado does not destroy the church but just all the surrounding buildings.
The church must be fantastic, because it got spared and the authority exercised so authentic. I call that Gods grace on miss-guided people who God desires to reach out to, but clearly have no real clue as to His will. They did not stop anything, God spared one building.

It is the same logic, which says, we conquered the illness, the faith was successful, God just called them home, but it is by the illness, which was described as satan attacking them. So in their theology satan won, they lost, so their faith is null and void, literally, because satan cannot conquer God. Oh wait a minute, even if their faith is null and void, God still loves them, so they are safe, and nothing really matters.

Or take the continuous proclamations of revival that will hit the world. But in reality the opposite takes place, because the revival being talked about is not repentance from sin and walking in Gods ways in righteousness and purity, but praise and worship meetings which proclaim a spiritual drunken state without anything else is large venues, thinking this is what it means to follow Jesus. Put simply if you are not a drunken spiritual type of person you are not saved....... And most are never going to be there even when they know the Lord in Spirit and truth.

Ironically for me I love praise and worship, being lost in Christ, knowing His touch and blessing, but not this insane heresy without Jesus, and His word and the Holy Spirit bringing order and reality to the theology and reality of the day. So much blasphemy, without even a second of a bad conscience or regret which denies our Holy God and His ways and truth. It is amazing if you get people in the right mood what you can get away with, especially if they are not born of the Holy Spirit. God bless you all.

With your constant criticism of things that don't fit your take on theology, I would say that you love to deny reality and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Your hyper criticality is something that I have never encountered before in all my 66 years as a Christian. I have heard things about this and that and people are not convinced but I have never heard such a nasty, hate-filled diatribe like yours. If you are a Christian then I have misunderstood what being a Christian is.

Here are some scriptures that make it clear you are on the wrong side of history.

John 13:14 If then I washed your feet, the Lord and the Teacher, you also ought to wash the feet of one another. (have you done that?)
John 13:34 I give a new commandment to you, that you should love one another; according as I loved you, you should also love one another. (Have you done that?)
John 13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love among one another. (As you seem to not have this I have cause to doubt you)
John 15:17 These things I command you, that you love one another. (there are a few more verses that say the same so it shows you how important it is). By the way, there are no verses that say you should criticise one another.
Romans 1:12 and this is to be comforted together among you, through the faith in one another, both yours and mine. (you don't seem to have faith in anything unless it agrees with your take on things).
Romans 12:10 in brotherly love to one another, loving fervently, having gone before one another in honor; (do you know what loving fervently means?)
Romans 13:8 Do not continue to owe no one, anything, except to love one another. For the one loving the other has fulfilled the Law. (As you seemed bound by the law, have you loved to fulfill the law?)
Romans 14:13 Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather judge this, not to put a stumbling-block or an offense toward a brother. (seems you have a long way to go).
Romans 14:19 So then let us pursue the things of peace, and the things for building up one another. (note that...building up. Seems you have a long way to go).
Romans 15:7 Because of this, receive one another as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. (are you receiving others like this?).
1Corinthians 12:25 that there not be division in the body, but that the members might have the same care for one another. (care for one another? do you care or just criticise?)
Galatians 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you are not consumed by one another. (bite and devour sums you up really good).
Ephesians 4:2 with all humility and meekness, with long-suffering, bearing with one another in love, ( I don't think you have even reached the starting line on that one).
Ephesians 4:32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, having forgiven one another, even as also God forgave you in Christ. (know anything about that?).
Philippians 2:3 doing nothing according to party spirit or self-glory, but in humility, esteeming one another as surpassing themselves; (I guess you would have a real problem with that).

There are many more but that will do for now. It should take you a week to get your head (and heart) around these. I hope you do because you will be a lot happier as a result.