The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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RogerDC

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From 42: Why Did Jesus Change Peter’s Name?
Ever wonder what God thinks of you? Or what type of potential He sees in you? The answer is simple: God sees greatness in you, and it’s because He put it there.

In this short episode, Kenny explains what we learn about ourselves from the simple name changing of an inconsistent fisherman named Simon, whom Jesus renamed “Peter” which can be translated “rock” or “big boulder.”

Many times in the Bible, God changed someone’s name because He was calling them to live out a new mission or identify with a new identity that God was giving them. This is exactly what Jesus was doing with Simon, seeing in him some great potential that no one else saw. Everyone else saw Simon, Jesus saw Peter.
Let me get this straight: You recommend to me an article that admits Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter, which can mean “rock” or ‘big boulder” (cf John 1:42), yet you reject the possibility that Peter could be “this rock” in Matt 16:18.

Wow, that’s bizarre. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
 
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RogerDC

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There is a problem. If the church was built on Peter, then everything came to a crashing end when Peter died! And when he did, there was no pre-eminent Bishop of Rome to take over from him. So, what happened in the intervening years until the Bishop of Rome assumed the overall leadership of the Church?
There is no problem - after Peter died a successor was appointed. He was known as Linus.
At one stage Constantine had the overall leadership of the church, and he wasn't an Apostle, but a pagan emperor. That would have seriously interrupted the Apostolic Succession!
Constantine was never the leader of the Catholic Church.
And what about the rat-bag popes who were adulterers and fornicators who had illegitimate children?
It’s true that a few Popes did not behave in accordance with their calling. So what? Popes are imperfect sinners too. All the Bible’s prophets and writers were also imperfect sinners - does that mean that everything they said and wrote and did was uninspired and worthless?
Also, the two popes appointed at the same time in competition with one another. Which one was Peter's successor?
The one who was chosen as Peter’s successor.
 

RogerDC

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I can't resist this one! :D
Some time during the 1960s-70s, the Roman Catholic church decided it was no longer a sin to eat meat on Fridays. Up until then, the faithful were permitted to eat only fish on Fridays. On the day that the decree was made by the Pope that the faithful can now eat meat on Fridays, a demon came up to the devil in hell and pointed to a very large group, and asked, "What do we do with all these ones who ate meat on Fridays?"
Nice try, but no cigar. You’ve got your facts wrong - it was never a sin for Catholics to eat meat on Fridays. Abstaining from meat on Fridays was a “discipline”, not a commandment. As for me (as it is for many other older Catholics), I still abstain from meat on Fridays, not because I have to, but because I find it spiritually edifying to practise that “discipline”.
 

mjrhealth

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In other words, like the Pharisees, you judge others according to laws that you invented and are not found in Scripture. Which verse says a Christian can’t wear a fancy hat and robes, or address a religious leader as “your Grace” or “your Eminence”?
This Part

Mat 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So much ignorance.
 

Paul Christensen

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In other words, like the Pharisees, you judge others according to laws that you invented and are not found in Scripture. Which verse says a Christian can’t wear a fancy hat and robes, or address a religious leader as “your Grace” or “your Eminence”?
Neither Jesus, Peter, nor Paul wore a fancy hat, nor were they addressed in high sounding titles, so I follow them instead of an arrogant usurper who calls himself the "vicar of Christ".
 

Dcopymope

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Neither Jesus, Peter, nor Paul wore a fancy hat, nor were they addressed in high sounding titles, so I follow them instead of an arrogant usurper who calls himself the "vicar of Christ".

More like the vicar of the "man of sin" than anything.
 

Paul Christensen

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Let me get this straight: You recommend to me an article that admits Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter, which can mean “rock” or ‘big boulder” (cf John 1:42), yet you reject the possibility that Peter could be “this rock” in Matt 16:18.

Wow, that’s bizarre. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
Peter would never have supported that evil, demonic Bloody Mary, Roman Catholic queen of England who, with the full support of the Roman Catholic church, brutally murdered 285 Reformers, when their only crime was that they did not believe in transubstantiation. One of those burnings at the stake was of a pregnant woman who gave birth while being burned and the baby was rescued, but the evil demon possessed bishop took the baby and threw it back in the flames. And in 1836 a man and his son were burned at the stake because they said "Praise be to God" instead of "Praise to Mary" when they received the Eucharist.

I could never support a church that would at any time support such evil brutality.
 

Paul Christensen

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There is no problem - after Peter died a successor was appointed. He was known as Linus.Constantine was never the leader of the Catholic Church.It’s true that a few Popes did not behave in accordance with their calling. So what? Popes are imperfect sinners too. All the Bible’s prophets and writers were also imperfect sinners - does that mean that everything they said and wrote and did was uninspired and worthless?The one who was chosen as Peter’s successor.
I could never support a religious cult that murdered thousands of good people all because they translated or owned a Bible in their own language, or refused to pray to Mary, or participate in what they viewed was a pagan Mass that doesn't reflect the Lords true communion table. All this happened according to the Council of Trent, and Vatican II confirmed it, so the Roman Catholic church has never repented of all those godless murders.
 

Paul Christensen

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Let me get this straight: You recommend to me an article that admits Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter, which can mean “rock” or ‘big boulder” (cf John 1:42), yet you reject the possibility that Peter could be “this rock” in Matt 16:18.

Wow, that’s bizarre. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
After reading about the Christian martyrs murdered by the Roman Catholic cult, the penny did drop quite definitely about it, causing me to recognise that it is just as much of a cult as Mormanism. JW, or Christian Science.

So, the actions of your church in history and in modern times in South American nations dominated by the RCC, discredits anything you may say in defence of it and its doctrines.
 

Paul Christensen

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Neither Jesus, Peter, nor Paul wore a fancy hat, nor were they addressed in high sounding titles, so I follow them instead of an arrogant usurper who calls himself the "vicar of Christ".
As you can see by my posts, I feel totally horrified by the way the RCC has treated good people through history, even throwing newborn babies into the flames as their mothers burned at the stake, and so I am implacably opposed to what I see as an evil, pagan, satanic cult that is fraudulently presenting itself as the "true" Christian church.
 

Eternally Grateful

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In other words, like the Pharisees, you judge others according to laws that you invented and are not found in Scripture. Which verse says a Christian can’t wear a fancy hat and robes, or address a religious leader as “your Grace” or “your Eminence”?
This is funny

Calling someone “like a pharisee” when your church pretty much is a mirror image of phariseeism. The only difference being they focused n moses law and tradition. You focus on what you call church law and tradition
 

Illuminator

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Peter would never have supported that evil, demonic Bloody Mary, Roman Catholic queen of England who, with the full support of the Roman Catholic church, brutally murdered 285 Reformers, when their only crime was that they did not believe in transubstantiation. One of those burnings at the stake was of a pregnant woman who gave birth while being burned and the baby was rescued, but the evil demon possessed bishop took the baby and threw it back in the flames. And in 1836 a man and his son were burned at the stake because they said "Praise be to God" instead of "Praise to Mary" when they received the Eucharist.

I could never support a church that would at any time support such evil brutality.

I could never support a religious cult that murdered thousands of good people all because they translated or owned a Bible in their own language, or refused to pray to Mary, or participate in what they viewed was a pagan Mass that doesn't reflect the Lords true communion table. All this happened according to the Council of Trent, and Vatican II confirmed it, so the Roman Catholic church has never repented of all those godless murders.

After reading about the Christian martyrs murdered by the Roman Catholic cult, the penny did drop quite definitely about it, causing me to recognise that it is just as much of a cult as Mormanism. JW, or Christian Science.

So, the actions of your church in history and in modern times in South American nations dominated by the RCC, discredits anything you may say in defence of it and its doctrines.

As you can see by my posts, I feel totally horrified by the way the RCC has treated good people through history, even throwing newborn babies into the flames as their mothers burned at the stake, and so I am implacably opposed to what I see as an evil, pagan, satanic cult that is fraudulently presenting itself as the "true" Christian church.
The reason for these unproven, psychotic hate rants is because you are doing so poorly in this discussion.
 
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Paul Christensen

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The reason for these unproven, psychotic hate rants is because you are doing so poorly in this discussion.
Most of what I said comes from secular history as well as church history. The Scripture says that in the last days many false prophets will arise who will deceive people. The psychotic English bishop who threw the new born baby into the flames is one of those who was deceived.
 

Paul Christensen

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The reason for these unproven, psychotic hate rants is because you are doing so poorly in this discussion.
I may not be convincing you, but all the silent readers of the forum will see clearly how cultish and non-Christian the RCC really is and will avoid any association with it like the coronavirus! It is actually worse than the virus, because the virus can kill only the body, while the RCC can subject a soul to the second death!
 
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Illuminator

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So, the actions of your church in history and in modern times in South American nations dominated by the RCC, discredits anything you may say in defence of it and its doctrines.
The same can be said about the actions of Protestantism in history. With the defense of the Amazonians dominating the news in the past few months, your ignorance is astounding. Catholics of today do not hold Protestants of today accountable for the sins centuries ago, but you hold Catholics of today accountable with an unfair view of history. What you want is a stupid childish rock throwing contest because anti-Catholic bigotry is your religion.

Protestant Inquisitions: "Reformation" Intolerance & Persecution
Disclaimer and statement of intent: Unfortunately, the religious “scandal score” needs to be evened up now and then, and the lesser-known “skeletons in the closet” need to be rescued from obscurity, surveyed, and exposed. I take no pleasure in “dredging up” these unsavory occurrences, but it is necessary for honest, fair historical appraisal. This does not mean that I have forsaken ecumenism, or that I wish to bash Protestants, or that I deny corresponding Catholic shortcomings.

Historical facts are what they are, and most Protestants (and Catholics) are unaware of the following historical events and beliefs (while, on the other hand, one always hears about the embarrassing and scandalous Catholic stuff — and not often very accurately or fairly at that). If (as I suspect might often be the case) readers are shocked or surprised by the very title of this paper, this would be a case in point, and justification enough for my purposes of education.

With that end and stated outlook in mind, I offer this copiously researched treatise, with all due respect to my Protestant brethren, yet not without some remaining trepidation.

CONTENTS
I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN OVERVIEW
II. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
III. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
IV. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
note: both Protestant and secular historians are cited in this paper, so you cannot claim doctrinal bias.
Protestant Inquisitions: "Reformation" Intolerance & Persecution
 

Paul Christensen

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The same can be said about the actions of Protestantism in history. With the defense of the Amazonians dominating the news in the past few months, your ignorance is astounding. Catholics of today do not hold Protestants of today accountable for the sins centuries ago, but you hold Catholics of today accountable with an unfair view of history. What you want is a stupid childish rock throwing contest because anti-Catholic bigotry is your religion.

Protestant Inquisitions: "Reformation" Intolerance & Persecution
Disclaimer and statement of intent: Unfortunately, the religious “scandal score” needs to be evened up now and then, and the lesser-known “skeletons in the closet” need to be rescued from obscurity, surveyed, and exposed. I take no pleasure in “dredging up” these unsavory occurrences, but it is necessary for honest, fair historical appraisal. This does not mean that I have forsaken ecumenism, or that I wish to bash Protestants, or that I deny corresponding Catholic shortcomings.

Historical facts are what they are, and most Protestants (and Catholics) are unaware of the following historical events and beliefs (while, on the other hand, one always hears about the embarrassing and scandalous Catholic stuff — and not often very accurately or fairly at that). If (as I suspect might often be the case) readers are shocked or surprised by the very title of this paper, this would be a case in point, and justification enough for my purposes of education.

With that end and stated outlook in mind, I offer this copiously researched treatise, with all due respect to my Protestant brethren, yet not without some remaining trepidation.

CONTENTS
I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN OVERVIEW
II. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
III. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
IV. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
note: both Protestant and secular historians are cited in this paper, so you cannot claim doctrinal bias.
Protestant Inquisitions: "Reformation" Intolerance & Persecution
Vatican II ratified every part of the Council of Trent, and the atrocities that were done to innocent people were done in obedience to the Council of Trent, so the RCC has never apologised or made any effort to show repentance for the wholesale slaughter of women and children during its dominance. The execution of Christian people was not because they broke any of the Ten Commandments, or it was not on moral grounds. It was because a person wouldn't pray to Mary, or helped translate the Bible into English, or decided not to accept the authority of the aduterous rat-bag pope of their time. It was under the Council of Trent that a whole city of 70,000 men in the South of France, women and children was totally wiped out with every inhabitant cruelly butchered by the crusaders appointed by the pope to clean out every man, woman and child who would not recognise his authority over them. That is a fact of secular, unbiased history of the time.

These are facts that are carefully hidden from the rank and file members of the RCC. Most of the parish priests during the time of the Council of Trent were so ignorant of the Bible that they could not name any more than around four of the Apostles, and all they knew was to perform the basic ceremony of the Mass and little more. And if the priests were that ignorant, then the ordinary church member knew nothing except what the priest told him or her. It was only when a member questioned praying to Mary or praying to the box in which the wafer was stored, that they discovered how cruel the RCC was as he or she found being bound to the stake and burned alive.

This is why thousands of people, when they find out the truth about the RCC, they are leaving it in droves.
 

Illuminator

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Vatican II ratified every part of the Council of Trent, and the atrocities that were done to innocent people were done in obedience to the Council of Trent, so the RCC has never apologised or made any effort to show repentance for the wholesale slaughter of women and children during its dominance. The execution of Christian people was not because they broke any of the Ten Commandments, or it was not on moral grounds. It was because a person wouldn't pray to Mary, or helped translate the Bible into English, or decided not to accept the authority of the aduterous rat-bag pope of their time. It was under the Council of Trent that a whole city of 70,000 men in the South of France, women and children was totally wiped out with every inhabitant cruelly butchered by the crusaders appointed by the pope to clean out every man, woman and child who would not recognise his authority over them. That is a fact of secular, unbiased history of the time.

These are facts that are carefully hidden from the rank and file members of the RCC. Most of the parish priests during the time of the Council of Trent were so ignorant of the Bible that they could not name any more than around four of the Apostles, and all they knew was to perform the basic ceremony of the Mass and little more. And if the priests were that ignorant, then the ordinary church member knew nothing except what the priest told him or her. It was only when a member questioned praying to Mary or praying to the box in which the wafer was stored, that they discovered how cruel the RCC was as he or she found being bound to the stake and burned alive.

This is why thousands of people, when they find out the truth about the RCC, they are leaving it in droves.
But you don't document your false histories, nor do you give reliable sources, you just assert them. The JW's and the SDA's do the same thing as you.
By "reliable source", I mean any recent Ph.D. in history, secular or Protestant, who would agree with your bigotted myth making. I don't accept so called historians before 1960, because scholarship has matured past 18th century propaganda that flooded the world. What has been discovered in archives all over the world does not support your hate speech. Proper documentation is your enemy.
By "documentation", I mean primary and secondary sources, which you never use. You don't even provide a link that verifies your false assertions because that would expose the biased source. You give no name to this woman allegedly burned alive, no date, no place, no ecclesiastical directive, and no eye witnesses yet you have repeated this fabrication twice.

Primary, secondary and tertiary sources are broadly defined here as follows: Primary sources are sources very close to the origin of a particular topic or event. An eyewitness account of a traffic accident is an example of a primary source. The Bible and the Early Church Fathers are primary sources. A tertiary source is an index or textual consolidation of primary and secondary sources. Some tertiary sources are not to be used for academic research, unless they can also be used as secondary sources, or to find other sources.(wiki) This you never do. Anything printed that bashes Catholicism you accept as fact. What you hate doesn't exist. Just cardboard caricatures.

The author of this book is a sociology professor and not even Catholic:


51N-UMbb%2BDL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


BOOK REVIEW
Anti-Catholicism has a long history in America. And as Philip Jenkins argues in The New Anti-Catholicism, this virulent strain of hatred--once thought dead--is alive and well in our nation, but few people seem to notice, or care.

A statement that is seen as racist, misogynistic, anti-Semitic, or homophobic can haunt a speaker for years, writes Jenkins, but it is still possible to make hostile and vituperative public statements about Roman Catholicism without fear of serious repercussions. Jenkins shines a light on anti-Catholic sentiment in American society and illuminates its causes, looking closely at gay and feminist anti-Catholicism, anti-Catholic rhetoric and imagery in the media, and the anti-Catholicism of the academic world.

For newspapers and newsmagazines, for television news and in movies, for major book publishers, the Catholic Church has come to provide a grossly stereotyped public villain. Catholic opinions, doctrines, and individual leaders are frequently the butt of harsh satire. Indeed, the notion that the church is a deadly enemy of women--the idea of Catholic misogyny--is commonly accepted in the news media and in popular culture, says Jenkins. And the recent pedophile priest scandal, he shows, has revived many ancient anti-Catholic stereotypes.
It was said that with the election of John F. Kennedy, anti-Catholicism in America was dead. This provocative new book corrects that illusion, drawing attention to this important issue.

Another non-Catholic author:

51LAbRH5nsL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


As we all know and as many of our well established textbooks have argued for decades, the Inquisition was one of the most frightening and bloody chapters in Western history, Pope Pius XII was anti-Semitic and rightfully called “Hitler’s Pope,” the Dark Ages were a stunting of the progress of knowledge to be redeemed only by the secular spirit of the Enlightenment, and the religious Crusades were an early example of the rapacious Western thirst for riches and power. But what if these long held beliefs were all wrong?

In this stunning, powerful, and ultimately persuasive book, Rodney Stark, one of the most highly regarded sociologists of religion and bestselling author of The Rise of Christianity (HarperSanFrancisco 1997) argues that some of our most firmly held ideas about history, ideas that paint the Catholic Church in the least positive light are, in fact, fiction. Why have we held these wrongheaded ideas so strongly and for so long? And if our beliefs are wrong, what, in fact, is the truth?
In each chapter, Stark takes on a well-established anti-Catholic myth, gives a fascinating history of how each myth became the conventional wisdom, and presents a startling picture of the real truth. For example,
  • Instead of the Spanish Inquisition being an anomaly of torture and murder of innocent people persecuted for “imaginary” crimes such as witchcraft and blasphemy, Stark argues that not only did the Spanish Inquisition spill very little blood, but it was a major force in support of moderation and justice.
  • Instead of Pope Pius XII being apathetic or even helpful to the Nazi movement, such as to merit the title, “Hitler’s Pope,” Stark shows that the campaign to link Pope Pius XII to Hitler was initiated by the Soviet Union, presumably in hopes of neutralizing the Vatican in post-World War II affairs. Pope Pius XII was widely praised for his vigorous and devoted efforts to saving Jewish lives during the war.
  • Instead of the Dark Ages being understood as a millennium of ignorance and backwardness inspired by the Catholic Church’s power, Stark argues that the whole notion of the “Dark Ages” was an act of pride perpetuated by anti-religious intellectuals who were determined to claim that theirs was the era of “Enlightenment.”
In the end, readers will not only have a more accurate history of the Catholic Church, they will come to understand why it became unfairly maligned for so long. Bearing False Witness is a compelling and sobering account of how egotism and ideology often work together to give us a false truth.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Let me get this straight: You recommend to me an article that admits Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter, which can mean “rock” or ‘big boulder” (cf John 1:42), yet you reject the possibility that Peter could be “this rock” in Matt 16:18.

Wow, that’s bizarre. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
The Greek word used for peter can not mean big Bolder

that was the word used for the rock the church would be built on.